Perth VS New Zealand
Aug 13th 2003, 9:17 am
#91
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 212
[i] Wilf will post no more[i]
This had the prospects of being a really good and helpful post until some bleedin' i.... who doesn't even live in NZ had to go hijack it. Arrrrrrgh
And I've just spent all this time scrolling through it hoping there'd be something useful somewhere.
Aug 13th 2003, 10:36 am
#92
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Originally posted by xpat19
Can't believe this debate is atill going on, but at the end of the day does it realy matter what percentage of NZ / Auckland is made up of Asians ?
A generilisation I know, but they tend to be very hard working people so why would that be to the detriment of a country ? There is an indiginous race of NZ , more than half sit on the dole and expect all things to handed them on a plate - I consider them to be more harmfull to the ecconomy then Asian xpats who move to this country, work hard and pay tax
Can't believe this debate is atill going on, but at the end of the day does it realy matter what percentage of NZ / Auckland is made up of Asians ?
A generilisation I know, but they tend to be very hard working people so why would that be to the detriment of a country ? There is an indiginous race of NZ , more than half sit on the dole and expect all things to handed them on a plate - I consider them to be more harmfull to the ecconomy then Asian xpats who move to this country, work hard and pay tax
His point about a disproportionately large number of foreigners (whether Asian or otherwise) in the biggest city is valid. Whether it makes a difference to you as an individual or not is irrelevant. If it causes an issue with a sizable minority of the "locals" for whatever reason, then you will have social friction. I can't believe that these points were not acknowledged more widely, rather than getting into a slanging match on statistics.
What is clear to me and seems to be agreed by all, is that a large proportion of Auckland's population is made up of an ethnic group which has grown exponentially in the last 10 years. And it will continue to grow at a faster rate in the future than other ethnic groups. My basic maths education translates that to a future where:
a) said Ethnic group will make up a more significant part of the Auckland population than it does now
b) the rate of growth since 1990 will have been phenomenal by whatever standards you use
These are important issues for those considering moving to Auckland to consider. The other 72% of NZ immigrants on this site should take an interest as well.
You discuss economics:
Yes, immigration can economically be a very positive thing, at the macro level. However, the poor wee kiwi, if he cannot buy his quarter acre section by the beach like his parents did, may feel angry about those immigrants who have priced him out of the market.
There is at least one kiwi who contributes to this forum who holds (in my view) extremely strong anti immigrant feelings. I can disagree with his views, but I cannot explain him away. He and others like him exist, and will continue to exist in the future.
Please don't generalise about Maoris either please. Or I'll have to ask you for your sources for the statement "...more than half of them sit on the dole and expect all things to handed them on a plate". The Maori situation is a very very complex one for NZ as a country, and there are many positive and some negative things happening.
Maoris (and immigrants for that matter) have no duty to the overall economy (although individually they have duties to their own and their family's wellbeing - was that the point you really wanted to make?). Not sure how the Maoris got pulled into this little spat on immigration. Perhaps we should leave it at that.
Aug 13th 2003, 10:37 am
#93
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Perth VS New Zealand
Originally posted by oz-nz donkey
Has anyone else migrated to Perth only to find things didn't work out as expected? We had 2 years there and things went from bad to worse, we have since moved onto New Zealand to find things have turned around for us fantastically.
Don't get me wrong, we liked Perth alot but financially it was a disaster. We had problems getting work and although we had visited before we migrated, we really did not cope with the heat day in and day out in the summer.
Perhaps our expectations were too high?
Wellington, on the other hand, makes us feel that we have at last reached a place we feel happy in. The kids have settled (we had problems in Perth with both children), we both secured jobs within days and it looks as though an offer on a house here is going to go without problems.
I am not running Perth down, had things gone better, perhaps we would still be there, hindsight is a wonderful thing!?
Has anyone else migrated to Perth only to find things didn't work out as expected? We had 2 years there and things went from bad to worse, we have since moved onto New Zealand to find things have turned around for us fantastically.
Don't get me wrong, we liked Perth alot but financially it was a disaster. We had problems getting work and although we had visited before we migrated, we really did not cope with the heat day in and day out in the summer.
Perhaps our expectations were too high?
Wellington, on the other hand, makes us feel that we have at last reached a place we feel happy in. The kids have settled (we had problems in Perth with both children), we both secured jobs within days and it looks as though an offer on a house here is going to go without problems.
I am not running Perth down, had things gone better, perhaps we would still be there, hindsight is a wonderful thing!?
NZ is a bit more like a little England, at least culturally. And Australia's image and whether it fits with reality is not as clear for potential immigrants to understand. That is why PB, Wilf and their like perform a very useful service on these pages (albeit their 'customer service' and 'tone of voice' scores are very low - but if you pay zip then what do you expect).
I am picking up a few posts on NZ threads now from people who have decided against Australia because of the 'advice' they are getting. Good for them. Hope they get the right advice about NZ too.
Aug 14th 2003, 12:12 am
#94
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Auckland
Posts: 161
Originally posted by Wilf
You really want me to reply to this?
You need me to say "all my adult life" is a phrase and does not mean to account for every year?
I will not bother any more.
You really want me to reply to this?
You need me to say "all my adult life" is a phrase and does not mean to account for every year?
I will not bother any more.
This is my last post on this thread.
I accept that 20% of Auckland is Asian but disagree that it will be 40% in 20 years time. The fact is there are no Govermt stats on this.
Your assumption that the fact that Stats NZ do not deny your claim is evidence that its true made me laugh. I asked them whether they had any stats on this and they said nothing had been published.
The point of my other post was to discredit you a source of real world expereince of New Zealand. When you were discussing Australia you claim to have lived their "all" your adult life, which means just that all of it - not most of it but all of it.
The next minute you appear on a NZ related thread claiming to have lived in NZ for 2 years when you are trying to add credibility to your NZ experience.
I just think you're inconsistent and change your life experinces to make you sound more knowelegeable than you are.
Each to their own - no more from me on this. Lets move on.
Aug 14th 2003, 9:27 am
#95
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
OKay... as much as I hate to humour Wilf any longer....
1) Wilf you are forgetting that when you stroll down Queen St and see Asian faces you are looking at part of the large Chinese population NZ obtained during the gold rushes of the 1800's. So many of them have been in NZ as long as us Whiteys.
2) if you have ever lived in Auckland Wilf you would know that to base your statistics on Auckland City data is misleading. There are four official cities which make up greater Auckland, and as shown on the graph on this page: http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/exte...fobyArea/02-rc the percentage of Asians in the Auckland Region in 2001 was around 15%. (not 20%)
3) At this page there are predictions for the Auckland Region to 2021: http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/exte...1?OpenDocument
This states: "The population of Auckland Region is projected to increase by 435,000 from 1,217,000 in 2001 to 1,652,000 in 2021." (A 36% increase) If Auckland regions grows by 36% again to 2041 it will be 2,246,720
At this page http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auck.../ethnicity.asp it states the Asian popn in Auckland CITY grew by 18% from 1991 to 2001.
So... in 2001 15% of Auckland region (1217000) means 182550 Asians.
Lets say the Asian popn in the Auckland REGION grows by 20% figure for the next ten years (ie more than the Auckland CITY growth figure), and the ten years after that etc etc until 2041 (which I would say is a rather generous growth figure). That means in:
2011 there will be: 219060 Asians
2021 there will be: 262872
2031 there will be: 315446
2041 there will be: 378535 Asians in the Auckland REGION
So in 2041, the Auckland region will have 378535 Asians out of a population 2,246,720 which is 17% of the population!! (ie only marginally more than it is now!)
Not 40% - not even close!!
So please go away Wilf...... you have some valid points to make at times but your continual hammering of this inaccurate point you heard from your 'brother in law' and on the radio (do you believe everything you hear on the radio??) is tiresome and very misleading (ie wrong).
1) Wilf you are forgetting that when you stroll down Queen St and see Asian faces you are looking at part of the large Chinese population NZ obtained during the gold rushes of the 1800's. So many of them have been in NZ as long as us Whiteys.
2) if you have ever lived in Auckland Wilf you would know that to base your statistics on Auckland City data is misleading. There are four official cities which make up greater Auckland, and as shown on the graph on this page: http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/exte...fobyArea/02-rc the percentage of Asians in the Auckland Region in 2001 was around 15%. (not 20%)
3) At this page there are predictions for the Auckland Region to 2021: http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/exte...1?OpenDocument
This states: "The population of Auckland Region is projected to increase by 435,000 from 1,217,000 in 2001 to 1,652,000 in 2021." (A 36% increase) If Auckland regions grows by 36% again to 2041 it will be 2,246,720
At this page http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/auck.../ethnicity.asp it states the Asian popn in Auckland CITY grew by 18% from 1991 to 2001.
So... in 2001 15% of Auckland region (1217000) means 182550 Asians.
Lets say the Asian popn in the Auckland REGION grows by 20% figure for the next ten years (ie more than the Auckland CITY growth figure), and the ten years after that etc etc until 2041 (which I would say is a rather generous growth figure). That means in:
2011 there will be: 219060 Asians
2021 there will be: 262872
2031 there will be: 315446
2041 there will be: 378535 Asians in the Auckland REGION
So in 2041, the Auckland region will have 378535 Asians out of a population 2,246,720 which is 17% of the population!! (ie only marginally more than it is now!)
Not 40% - not even close!!
So please go away Wilf...... you have some valid points to make at times but your continual hammering of this inaccurate point you heard from your 'brother in law' and on the radio (do you believe everything you hear on the radio??) is tiresome and very misleading (ie wrong).
Aug 14th 2003, 9:38 am
#96
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
whoops for some reason I had 40 years in my head...
but 20 years makes it even easier and more accurate....
as it will be 262872 Asians out of official predicted figure of 1,652,000 - which means:
In 2021, only 16% of the population of the Auckland Region will Asian!!!!!
Obviously somebody on the radio did the calculations for the Asian population, but forgot that the rest of Auckland will also be growing... Duh....
Case closed.... Wilf you can relax, you're not going to be over run.....
but 20 years makes it even easier and more accurate....
as it will be 262872 Asians out of official predicted figure of 1,652,000 - which means:
In 2021, only 16% of the population of the Auckland Region will Asian!!!!!
Obviously somebody on the radio did the calculations for the Asian population, but forgot that the rest of Auckland will also be growing... Duh....
Case closed.... Wilf you can relax, you're not going to be over run.....
Aug 15th 2003, 5:02 am
#97
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Auckland for now
Posts: 70
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dotty
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
Aug 15th 2003, 5:46 am
#98
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,185
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ex kiwi
Is your post ironic or your genuine feeling about NZ/Auck?
Are you really a NZ citizen or just a foreigner with Permanent residence in NZ?
Originally posted by dotty
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
Is your post ironic or your genuine feeling about NZ/Auck?
Are you really a NZ citizen or just a foreigner with Permanent residence in NZ?
Aug 15th 2003, 8:00 am
#99
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
Wilf I see you don't have anything to say about my posts above....
You're constantly berating others to admit when they make a mistake - good to see you practice what you preach
You're constantly berating others to admit when they make a mistake - good to see you practice what you preach
Aug 15th 2003, 2:01 pm
#100
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Hawkes Bay
Posts: 359
I think he has gone home for the weekend now. Wait till Sunday night (BST) for a response.
Roger
Roger
Aug 16th 2003, 3:03 am
#101
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Sussex, formerly Christchurch
Posts: 395
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ex kiwi
Careful, this sounds far too honest (in opinion) and will hurt a lot of feelings!
I work with a large number of Kiwis who would all consider themselves educated and I am often staggered by the overt racist remarks I hear....mainly directed at Asians but occasionally Maori. Such comments made in the UK towards West Indians/Pakistanis etc would belong in the '70's of Alf Garnett.
Originally posted by dotty
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
1) Crap weather for 10 months of the year*
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
4) Crime*
5) Gridlock*
6) Rates went up 250%*
7) did I mention crap weather?
8) PC government
9) Maori greed
10) Isolated
* Auckland
I work with a large number of Kiwis who would all consider themselves educated and I am often staggered by the overt racist remarks I hear....mainly directed at Asians but occasionally Maori. Such comments made in the UK towards West Indians/Pakistanis etc would belong in the '70's of Alf Garnett.
Aug 16th 2003, 8:21 am
#102
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Hawkes Bay
Posts: 359
You probably haven't been in the UK in the last couple of years. You'd be staggered by the racist (?concerned) comments made by reasonable intelligent professional people about the unrestricted migration into the UK. Certainly in more and more areas of the UK the local feel more like the outsiders. There's no positive discrimination towards the Anglo-Saxons, unlike the Maoris in NZ.
I have never (knowingly) been racist towards a foreigner, and have had many friends who are asian, but it is unsettling. One of the reasons I am leaving UK. Yep there are Asians in NZ but in my experience the Indians, Chinese, Malay work a good deal harder than Albanians (sorry Kosovan refugees), Romananians gypsies, and Africans.
Even Afrikaaner friends are surprised by the increasing racial intolerance of the Brits.
An observation.
Roger
I have never (knowingly) been racist towards a foreigner, and have had many friends who are asian, but it is unsettling. One of the reasons I am leaving UK. Yep there are Asians in NZ but in my experience the Indians, Chinese, Malay work a good deal harder than Albanians (sorry Kosovan refugees), Romananians gypsies, and Africans.
Even Afrikaaner friends are surprised by the increasing racial intolerance of the Brits.
An observation.
Roger
Aug 16th 2003, 8:48 am
#103
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ex kiwi
Ex-kiwi have you actually ever been to the '3rd world'??? To say NZ has 3rd world hospitals and eduation shows you listen to a lot of talkback radio but little else....
'3rd world' healthcare and education is NOTHING like NZ's standard (which is pretty good compared with many parts of the world)....
Sure if you want top-notch health and education you might have to pay a bit more for it - but that's the way of the world - free healthcare is unsustainable.... the NHS shows that and the UK has a popn of 60 million. There's no way NZ can do the same with 4 million....
Perhaps you meant it tongue in cheek - but if you have visited a 'third world' country you would realise that it is actually no laughing matter
Originally posted by dotty
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
SNIP
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
SNIP
* Auckland
Bit I dont understand is why so many NZ's are in OZ??
We are leaving because of:
SNIP
2) 3rd world hospitals*
3) 3rd world education*
SNIP
* Auckland
'3rd world' healthcare and education is NOTHING like NZ's standard (which is pretty good compared with many parts of the world)....
Sure if you want top-notch health and education you might have to pay a bit more for it - but that's the way of the world - free healthcare is unsustainable.... the NHS shows that and the UK has a popn of 60 million. There's no way NZ can do the same with 4 million....
Perhaps you meant it tongue in cheek - but if you have visited a 'third world' country you would realise that it is actually no laughing matter
Aug 16th 2003, 7:50 pm
#104
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Sussex, formerly Christchurch
Posts: 395
Originally posted by Roger
You probably haven't been in the UK in the last couple of years. You'd be staggered by the racist (?concerned) comments made by reasonable intelligent professional people about the unrestricted migration into the UK. Certainly in more and more areas of the UK the local feel more like the outsiders. There's no positive discrimination towards the Anglo-Saxons, unlike the Maoris in NZ.
I have never (knowingly) been racist towards a foreigner, and have had many friends who are asian, but it is unsettling. One of the reasons I am leaving UK. Yep there are Asians in NZ but in my experience the Indians, Chinese, Malay work a good deal harder than Albanians (sorry Kosovan refugees), Romananians gypsies, and Africans.
Even Afrikaaner friends are surprised by the increasing racial intolerance of the Brits.
An observation.
Roger
You probably haven't been in the UK in the last couple of years. You'd be staggered by the racist (?concerned) comments made by reasonable intelligent professional people about the unrestricted migration into the UK. Certainly in more and more areas of the UK the local feel more like the outsiders. There's no positive discrimination towards the Anglo-Saxons, unlike the Maoris in NZ.
I have never (knowingly) been racist towards a foreigner, and have had many friends who are asian, but it is unsettling. One of the reasons I am leaving UK. Yep there are Asians in NZ but in my experience the Indians, Chinese, Malay work a good deal harder than Albanians (sorry Kosovan refugees), Romananians gypsies, and Africans.
Even Afrikaaner friends are surprised by the increasing racial intolerance of the Brits.
An observation.
Roger
As for your generalisation about 'locals' (who the heck are they I wonder...perhaps you've been watching the League of Gentleman thinking it was an insightful documentary on our life and times?) feeling like the foreigners that smacks a little of rascism does it not? Although you'd NEVER do it knowingly. An observation
Last edited by muppetking; Aug 16th 2003 at 7:58 pm.
Aug 17th 2003, 8:27 pm
#105
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2003
Location: Merseyside
Posts: 30
Originally posted by Wilf
I am not sure whether to feel sorry for you or laugh at you.
I am a kind old man and you have problems enough. I will go easy.
The figure you quote (13%) is the proportion of Asians IN THE WHOLE OF NEW ZEALAND. My 20% is for AUCKLAND today. My 40% is for AUCKLAND by 2021. Was it not you that said "auckland is not the same as New Zealand"?
I will say it again:
The Asian population OF AUCKLAND today is 20%
The Asian population OF AUCKLAND by 2021 will be approx 40%.
You are man enough to give me an apology or not?
I am not sure whether to feel sorry for you or laugh at you.
I am a kind old man and you have problems enough. I will go easy.
The figure you quote (13%) is the proportion of Asians IN THE WHOLE OF NEW ZEALAND. My 20% is for AUCKLAND today. My 40% is for AUCKLAND by 2021. Was it not you that said "auckland is not the same as New Zealand"?
I will say it again:
The Asian population OF AUCKLAND today is 20%
The Asian population OF AUCKLAND by 2021 will be approx 40%.
You are man enough to give me an apology or not?
Poor Donkey , anyone got a carrott for the poor downtrodden pet?!!
Ta ta Taniar
