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Pains me to say it...

Pains me to say it...

Old Aug 2nd 2008, 7:33 am
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Unhappy Pains me to say it...

Hi all,
Well, I never thought I'd be saying this, as we've been dreaming and planning for nigh on 3 years now, but I’m starting to get some serious wobbles about the timing of our move to NZ.
We were always going to be doing it on a shoestring, as don’t have much equity in our house, but given the imminent world recession our limited funds aren’t going to stretch very far… I’m starting to think it should be put on ice and the next few years should be a time for consolidation.
Despite being on the LTSS list we have no solid job offer, other than the promise from NZ recruitment agents that we’ll be found work within a month over there, but it is a long way to go with little money if that doesn’t materialize… and who can accurately predict the labour market in economic times like these?
I can hardly believe I am thinking along these lines… I must be getting older… I have always been one to do things and weather the storm afterwards but that was as a single guy. Now there are 2 of us, I feel that if things don't work out, then I am responsible for Laura losing a lot… she has a longer career and is much closer to her family here than I to mine.
I have never really been one to buy in to all the media scaremongering about boom and recession, but this time it is very tangible… you can almost smell it in the air… and we haven’t even put our house on the market yet, with all the woes that is entailing at present.
We are just at the stage of submitting our ITA forms with police checks about to be sent off, and medicals booked for the next 3 weeks, and for some reason it’s hit me rather hard… very strange, as we’ve been riding on a crest of positivity and optimism for the past 18 months… if we had double the money then I wouldn’t be feeling this way (would anyone?!) but I have this image creeping into my mind of what little we take with us being swallowed up by pretty quickly and us being in a worse off situation than here in the UK. The lifestyle change we crave is all well and good but you need some means to support it, even though we don’t plan on living a lavish life.
What’s the general verdict out there? Would you advise continuing with the ITA to try and get our PR approved to use in the future? What is the "shelf life” on these things?

Please excuse the rambling stream of consciousnees feel to this post, but we have been bigging up our move to everyone over here, utterly positive about it in the face of some serious doubting Thomases, and I feel that a great loss of face is on the horizon… thoughts please!
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 8:17 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

There is a recession here but there are also plenty of jobs for people with skills. The building sector and associated trades may start to be feeling the pinch, so it does depend where your skills lie.

I believe the shelf life on PR is a year from the visa going in your passport.

Alison
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Monies worries and fearof recession are hitting everyone, everywhere... we here now and money is tight, but we'd rather be here in NZ than anywhere else... One way of looking at it is... if your going to struggle in the UK (although you have a job) because of an impending recession, why not struggle with it in NZ and be somewhere you want to be!
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 8:50 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Roger,
From your post I take this.
1. You have not yet sold your UK house
2. You have limited capital (whatever that really means in practical terms)
3. You do not yet have a job to go to in NZ

Only you know the numbers ,but IMO if your capital will not cover your outgoings for 6 months including funding on your UK house then I would call a halt until it does.
Bear in mind that we have not yet really seen the effect on employment from a generalised slowdown. This is usually a lagging reaction to less favourable economic conditions and we're currently much closer to the outset on that than we are to the finish.To cope with that I'd think you need to be capitalised as above to give yourself the best chance of allowing the NZ experience to work for you as I am sure you wish it to.
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 10:21 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Originally Posted by RogerLaura View Post
Hi all,
Well, I never thought I'd be saying this, as we've been dreaming and planning for nigh on 3 years now, but I’m starting to get some serious wobbles about the timing of our move to NZ.
We were always going to be doing it on a shoestring, as don’t have much equity in our house, but given the imminent world recession our limited funds aren’t going to stretch very far… I’m starting to think it should be put on ice and the next few years should be a time for consolidation.
Despite being on the LTSS list we have no solid job offer, other than the promise from NZ recruitment agents that we’ll be found work within a month over there, but it is a long way to go with little money if that doesn’t materialize… and who can accurately predict the labour market in economic times like these?
I can hardly believe I am thinking along these lines… I must be getting older… I have always been one to do things and weather the storm afterwards but that was as a single guy. Now there are 2 of us, I feel that if things don't work out, then I am responsible for Laura losing a lot… she has a longer career and is much closer to her family here than I to mine.
I have never really been one to buy in to all the media scaremongering about boom and recession, but this time it is very tangible… you can almost smell it in the air… and we haven’t even put our house on the market yet, with all the woes that is entailing at present.
We are just at the stage of submitting our ITA forms with police checks about to be sent off, and medicals booked for the next 3 weeks, and for some reason it’s hit me rather hard… very strange, as we’ve been riding on a crest of positivity and optimism for the past 18 months… if we had double the money then I wouldn’t be feeling this way (would anyone?!) but I have this image creeping into my mind of what little we take with us being swallowed up by pretty quickly and us being in a worse off situation than here in the UK. The lifestyle change we crave is all well and good but you need some means to support it, even though we don’t plan on living a lavish life.
What’s the general verdict out there? Would you advise continuing with the ITA to try and get our PR approved to use in the future? What is the "shelf life” on these things?

Please excuse the rambling stream of consciousnees feel to this post, but we have been bigging up our move to everyone over here, utterly positive about it in the face of some serious doubting Thomases, and I feel that a great loss of face is on the horizon… thoughts please!
For what its worth you are doing right the right thing in staying un uk. Many people on this website are so positive about new zealand i am the opposite i have really tried to settle but from day one I knew we had made a terrible mistake. The country is beautiful and people friendly but it isnt and nver will be home. The lack of cash is a big problem as i have been unable to secure a full time teaching position. the recession has hit people very hard but at least at home we would have family and friends to help us.
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 10:31 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

IF you have $100k to put down on a house which means you'd need maybe $130k - $150k to start up and a decent job with a decent wage and there's only two of you (so assume other half would be working) then there's no reason it wouldn't be ok. No matter where you are. On other hand, a few years is nothing and could mean the difference between you between being miserable and being as happy as you could ever imagine you would be.

The reason I quote the above figures is because that's what we came with and although I know there are lots of people who come with less that's the minimum I believe is comfortable if you're going to live in Auckland. If you're going to Gore, it'll be less

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 9:02 pm
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Originally Posted by sonandbill View Post
For what its worth you are doing right the right thing in staying un uk. Many people on this website are so positive about new zealand i am the opposite i have really tried to settle but from day one I knew we had made a terrible mistake. The country is beautiful and people friendly but it isnt and nver will be home. The lack of cash is a big problem as i have been unable to secure a full time teaching position. the recession has hit people very hard but at least at home we would have family and friends to help us.
All I can say is that if you admit money is REALLY tight don't do it until cash is more plentiful. I am sure people will say I did it on a shoestring BUT the biggest complaint I hear (apart from crap housing, poor wages, terrible drivers,backward nation etc etc!!!!) is that when money is REALLY tight its thoroughly miserable...tell me about it!!!!

I love my new live in NZ but due to my adavnced years came with some money, alas my finances have recently imploded in NZ but life is still VERY good here and NZ is home.

And on another point, had I stayed in the UK I would not have lost £55k in an NZ finance house...BUT, my house would also be worth £50k less than it was 3.5 years ago!! Swings and roundabouts aye!!
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 10:33 pm
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Hi Roger
Been in NZ for nearly 5 years.Recession has hit here hard and you need a half decent wage coming in to make ends meet. Housing is no longer cheap and the quality of the housing is a lot poorer than we are used to in the UK.
I live in the Waikato and its has rained for the last 2 months non stop.
NZ is a lovely country but it has its problems like any other country.
We miss historic buildings, the whole world revolves around sport for the Kiwis, lack of quality shopping (so my wife tells me), schools not as good unless you go private and itis so far away from all other parts of the world. You need to have some funds behind you to get of the island each year or you would lose the plot.
So I hear you say why are we here ,well the house has gone on the market and we are looking to head back to the UK early next year. So give it a lot of thought before you make the big move.
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Old Aug 2nd 2008, 10:39 pm
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

And dont forget you only get 12 months to validate your visa.

IMO if you want it that badly, you will pull out the stops and just go for it.

I know a family who came out as just 2 of them and now are nearly 4 of them, came out with $16k and once the rent, car etc was done had little else, he has wuite a good job around $70k she does not work much now, and they have a rental house to, dont live anywhere flash, but have done the hard yards and wanted the change and NZ so much, i take my hat off to them as their first hosue they bought was shocking, a typicle run down Kiwi house, but they have since moved on and are doing ok.

I also think where you live will help in NZ, because everyone seems to think NZ starts and ends with Auckland, what with house prices and traffic problems, but if you look elswhere in NZ i recon things can be so more acheivable in a smaller town or city.

We lost in the late 80s through negitive equity, and after years of hard yards got equity back in another house, decided we wanted change in our lives, and set the ball rolling, we also did not want to come to NZ and be in the same boat as the UK,so we headed south, now i am just an average Joe, works with hands, roofing, carpentry etc, so came out as a roofer, now i have started my own business, and my wife has been doing a course at UNI for 2 years, we were lucky in that we have managed to be mortgage free because we headed for somewhere that was affordable, Dunedin, bought an ex state house, got all day sun, only 120k population, get from one side of city to other in under 15mins, and all the ameanities you could ask for.

But hey its all down to how much you want it, in the first couple of years its the toughest time of all, i think it will take that to feel really settled, missing family and having instant baby sitters for us is a hard one, Granparents etc.
And alot of people think they will be hopping over to OZ, Fiji, Rao etc, but if not a good incomes its sooo expensive to do those things, but like you say NZ will always be here, i would still get your PRV and if you had to validate them within the 12 month period.

We are back this Christmas to see folks for 3 weeks, so will come back to NZ and see what we want to do, we could not go back there as it would be a waste of all this time and effort we have put in, but i wouldn't rule out a change in city.

Good luck with your decision.

Nige, Dunedin May 05
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Old Aug 3rd 2008, 10:14 am
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Originally Posted by RogerLaura View Post
Despite being on the LTSS list we have no solid job offer, other than the promise from NZ recruitment agents that we’ll be found work within a month over there, but it is a long way to go with little money if that doesn’t materialize… and who can accurately predict the labour market in economic times like these?

The LTSS list is meaningless (somebody sat in an office and made a list of all the things they thought New Zealand should have) and you should think of the NZIS (and recruitment agents) as timeshare salesmen.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't make the move....but don't burn all your bridges in the UK and make sure you come out here on return tickets.

Good luck!

Last edited by Avid; Aug 3rd 2008 at 10:18 am.
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Old Aug 3rd 2008, 2:44 pm
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Wink Re: Pains me to say it...

Thanks for all the replies and words of wisdom... wise sentiments in there too, and I genuinely appreciate your thoughts an opinions.

I think it'll be a slow burning decision, weighing up the pros and cons, as things should be in an ideal world... head over heart. I haven't even discussed this with Laura yet... that's something for this evening. Wanted to get it out there with you guys to see what the common consent was... maybe to see if I was being a touch alarmist.

If lived abroad as a single guy before, though was a young and immature fella so it didn't work out as it should. 2 years in Italy and 2 in Sweden really broadened my horizons, but it did make me realise that living and working somewhere is a totally different ball game from a holiday there. I want to learn from those mistakes, when I rushed into things, and do it right, particulary as I have someone else to consider this time.

I loved Italy, and thought the country was great, but was badly paid and that really affected my life over there and thus my enjoyment... I don't want this to be the same for NZ, especially given the distances involved. Nowhere is a utopian paradise, and even a place as beautiful as Italy, with people as hospitable as they are is beset with problems... Emigrate in haste, repent at leisure...

Thanks again for all the advice, people! Really appreciate it! Will keep you posted....
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Old Aug 3rd 2008, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: Pains me to say it...

Our destination is pretty much likely to be Hawkes Bay by the way, which I believe is a considerably cheaper place to set up...
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