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NZ Who's country is it?

NZ Who's country is it?

Old Mar 5th 2009, 7:23 am
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Default NZ Who's country is it?

Lots of people have been saying of late put the past behind us..blah, blah blah. They are sooooooooo right. We need to pull together as one (yeah right!) if we are to go forward.

I would love for us all to have the same treatment accorded each other irrespective of ethnicity..ie we are all in the same boat. At some juncture we will have to put the past behind us to be able to get on. I cannot keep raking up my mother's dislike of me or my 1st wife leaving me otherwise my life would be in disarray. The same should go for NZ. We should draw a line in the sand the day all this settlement stuff is done. After that we ALL get treated the same..in every respect.

Do you think it will ever happen? What is that saying about divided we fall? I guess one day we will be so interrelated that perchance we will forget the evils of the past and look to a brighter future.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 9:19 am
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Do you think it will ever happen? What is that saying about divided we fall? I guess one day we will be so interrelated that perchance we will forget the evils of the past and look to a brighter future.
No. Mostly because you have two completely different cultures with different values. I understand why Maori are angry. I would be to if I had my land stolen!
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 11:09 am
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Lots of people have been saying of late put the past behind us..blah, blah blah. They are sooooooooo right. We need to pull together as one (yeah right!) if we are to go forward.

I would love for us all to have the same treatment accorded each other irrespective of ethnicity..ie we are all in the same boat. At some juncture we will have to put the past behind us to be able to get on. I cannot keep raking up my mother's dislike of me or my 1st wife leaving me otherwise my life would be in disarray. The same should go for NZ. We should draw a line in the sand the day all this settlement stuff is done. After that we ALL get treated the same..in every respect.

Do you think it will ever happen? What is that saying about divided we fall? I guess one day we will be so interrelated that perchance we will forget the evils of the past and look to a brighter future.
How long have you been here Genesis? You're already talking about 'we' as though you have some history here. But any history you have here is as a non-marginalized person - what do you know about the 'other side' of this situation? How much NZ history do you know? You talk about one day everyone being so interrelated etc - yet you seem to forget, or to not know, that efforts were made in the past to erase all traces of a separate Maori people/culture/language... and guess what? Didn't happen! And why should it happen? To make non-Maori happier?!
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Lots of people have been saying of late put the past behind us..blah, blah blah. They are sooooooooo right. We need to pull together as one (yeah right!) if we are to go forward.

I would love for us all to have the same treatment accorded each other irrespective of ethnicity..ie we are all in the same boat. At some juncture we will have to put the past behind us to be able to get on. I cannot keep raking up my mother's dislike of me or my 1st wife leaving me otherwise my life would be in disarray. The same should go for NZ. We should draw a line in the sand the day all this settlement stuff is done. After that we ALL get treated the same..in every respect.

Do you think it will ever happen? What is that saying about divided we fall? I guess one day we will be so interrelated that perchance we will forget the evils of the past and look to a brighter future.
I think you are missing the point in some ways. Maori are special because of their ethnicity and we should celebrate that. Trust me mate, it's a really special thing. It's a unique thing in NZ we should all be proud off!

Sure, Maori are struggling at the moment in some ways (with crime, gangs, P, etc) but I believe (could be wrong ) that most of the problems with happening with Maori is that pakeha have embraced consumerism and Maori haven't.

Last edited by Coda; Mar 5th 2009 at 3:35 pm.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Lots of people have been saying of late put the past behind us..blah, blah blah. They are sooooooooo right. We need to pull together as one (yeah right!) if we are to go forward.

I would love for us all to have the same treatment accorded each other irrespective of ethnicity..ie we are all in the same boat. At some juncture we will have to put the past behind us to be able to get on. I cannot keep raking up my mother's dislike of me or my 1st wife leaving me otherwise my life would be in disarray. The same should go for NZ. We should draw a line in the sand the day all this settlement stuff is done. After that we ALL get treated the same..in every respect.

Do you think it will ever happen? What is that saying about divided we fall? I guess one day we will be so interrelated that perchance we will forget the evils of the past and look to a brighter future.
I think you are both missing my point. You can have pride in your background and remember and celebrate it...anyway my point was that of late many people have been going on about its a 'them and us' situation that prevails currently in NZ..and moreover there are very ,very few real 100% maoris left. I am diluted irish and french, I am proud of my back ground but I am truly neither..I am a bit of a mix aye? I appreciate maori have been done wrong....thats why I said WHEN the settlement is sorted can we try to put the past behind us..not totally, lest we forget etc and go forward as ONE NATION (you can still have your own beliefs etc). I did not suggest we scrap everything maori and outlaw the lingo.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 5:07 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
.... I appreciate maori have been done wrong.....
for a moment, I thought you had posted " I appreciate maori have done wrong." because they most certainly have!
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 7:42 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Black Sheep View Post
How long have you been here Genesis? You're already talking about 'we' as though you have some history here.



I have been here long enough to know the moari pakeha divide is causing us to be a dysfunctional country and that the gulf betwixt the aforementioned appears to be growing. I refer to 'we' as I am part of NZ now as I was invited in. I pay my taxes, raise my kids here and consider myself and my family assets to this country, as such I am part of the 'we'. I intend to live for ever in my adopted homeland and I am very, very proud to be part of it. I have far more time for NZ that I ever did the UK and I was 45 years there. Don't know why the latter is so, guess I feel at home here and that I 'fit in' better in NZ than I ever did in the UK. I will become a citizen next year as will the rest of my family..I guess that will compound said 'we' aye?
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 7:59 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I have been here long enough to know the moari pakeha divide is causing us to be a dysfunctional country and that the gulf betwixt the aforementioned appears to be growing. I refer to 'we' as I am part of NZ now as I was invited in. I pay my taxes, raise my kids here and consider myself and my family assets to this country, as such I am part of the 'we'. I intend to live for ever in my adopted homeland and I am very, very proud to be part of it. I have far more time for NZ that I ever did the UK and I was 45 years there. Don't know why the latter is so, guess I feel at home here and that I 'fit in' better in NZ than I ever did in the UK. I will become a citizen next year as will the rest of my family..I guess that will compound said 'we' aye?
I have to say I've been surprised by some of the responses to this. I agree with you Genesis and the points you have made above. I feel very strongly that I am part of this country now and it feels like "home" and I am proud to live here. I feel blessed to have the opportunity to live here and can sometimes be quite protective of the little place!

I think, like you, my life has turned out so much better for being here and I am so much more content. I see this in my kids too and that brings me immense joy and relief.

My hubby and kids are citizens so I am the only "immigrant" in the family - but like you I can't wait to become a citizen and really feel like I am here forever. Well, as much as forever can really be forever if you get my drift?!

I think, in very simplistic terms coz I'm blonde, that a country belongs to it's citizens and residents. Most countries are a melting pot of different nationalities and cultures and I figure most have something to offer and contribute. I also feel that the Maori heritage and culture is an integral part of what makes NZ what it is and gives it something unique.

I read an interesting article in the Sunday Herald last week about how Kiwi's are considered "beige" and that the Maori side should be embraced and used as a unique feature with regards to increasing tourism.

Now, all join hands and hug a tree ...

Link to article ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10559280

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Old Mar 5th 2009, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I have been here long enough to know the moari pakeha divide is causing us to be a dysfunctional country
I disagree.

Firstly, the country seems to function very well, you yourself seem to be a fan of it. There is nothing wrong with a bit of debate, and lets face it there are plenty of issues to debate and decide on some decent actions. The more likely direct causes of any dysfunctionality in NZ are due to the disproportionate number of Maori living as an underclass. IMO targetted actions are more likely to rectify that situation, rather than purely egalitarian policies. And in the long run it will benefit all of us. There seems to be a relative consensus amongst the main political parties on this course of action (and also on the settlement process taking its due course), so I think the issues are not as contentious as is made out.

Secondly, if you think had been here long enough to knowledgeably comment on the situation then I would expect you would at least know the correct name of NZ's native people.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 9:15 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by southerner View Post
IMO targetted actions are more likely to rectify that situation, rather than purely egalitarian policies. And in the long run it will benefit all of us. There seems to be a relative consensus amongst the main political parties on this course of action (and also on the settlement process taking its due course), so I think the issues are not as contentious as is made out.
Couldn't agree more. I think on a purely practical note, policies which result in better healthcare, housing, welfare or education in order to raise a big portion of the population to an acceptable level benefits everyone in that society. And yes, fwiw- that's for any group who are underrepresented on the 'good' stats and 'overrepresented' in the bad stats. It's why healthcare advertisements currently feature Maori and (mainly) Pasifika. It's a group that needs to be targeted for the benefit of everyone.

It's a very very similar logic to decile rankings of schools actually. A recognition that some sort of 'assistance' is necessary to have everyone on an even keel.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by southerner View Post
I disagree.


Secondly, if you think had been here long enough to knowledgeably comment on the situation then I would expect you would at least know the correct name of NZ's native people.

I do, I just made a slipping mistake. Maori, maori, maori. I will write it 100 times. The dysfunctionality you talk about with respect to the underclass too many maori are is exactly as I say...there is a huge divide betwixt 'them and the white folk'. That's what makes them and underclass. If we lived together more cohesively (which is the basis of my post) less maori would be leading impoverished lives, living longer and feeling more part of NZ european society..cos thats what it is, wether you like it or not. 87%v13% (roughly). The latter DOES NOT MEAN that maori give up their rich heritage and cultural background. Many asians go to their various temples but fully embrace the western ways of their chosen homeland ( I know lots don't). I do believe we could ..in the future be as one yet the maori still have a handle on their roots if they choose to do so.

Last edited by Genesis; Mar 5th 2009 at 10:04 pm.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 11:34 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
...If we lived together more cohesively (which is the basis of my post) less maori would be leading impoverished lives, living longer and feeling more part of NZ european society..
What do you mean by more cohesively? But perhaps more importantly, what are you advising we do to get there that is different from the status quo?

You don't say it, but reading between the lines you are after some changes from the minority, to better fit in with the majority.
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Old Mar 5th 2009, 11:50 pm
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by southerner View Post
What do you mean by more cohesively? But perhaps more importantly, what are you advising we do to get there that is different from the status quo?

You don't say it, but reading between the lines you are after some changes from the minority, to better fit in with the majority.
No I am not..we all do it the 'them and us' stuff. The problems in NZ are as much maori's as they are pakehas. We all share the same bit of land. We need to get on better. There is dicrimination both positive and negative from both quarters IMO. Cohesively I guess mean more accepting, less judgemental and stop all the fighting and tittle tattle thats does go on. Do we not all have a common interest? The welfare of NZ for our children and theirs. I do not have any magic wand to wave I was just prompting a debate. I like to think I will do my bit (and hopefully alnong the way too) by welcoming any ethnicity into my family should one not from my white euro background choose to take up with one of my offspring.
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Old Mar 6th 2009, 2:28 am
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

NZ Who's country is it?
Well its anyone who has made New Zealand their home surely. If they happen to be Maori, Asian (or in my case English) should make no difference to who's country it is. We all chose to come to New Zealand (including 800 or so years ago Maori ) because we wanted to live here.
As for Maori being wronged......well as with most things Maori we tend to talk about history. Yes Maori were wronged 169 years ago but can you think of a people over the years that were not wronged also. Britain was invaded by the Romans ,Vikings and the Normans and were seriously wronged at the time. The native Americans were and still are seriously wronged. To infer that Maori are still being wronged though is nonsense. Very obviously white New Zealanders desperately try to find some Maori bloodline in their family to take advantage of the many advantages of being a Maori in NZ. If you disagree with that then I live in a different country to you. Most Maori that I know are good decent people who just want to get on with their lives without being constantly reminded about their ethnicity. They know that they are Maori and do not need anyone to tell them.
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Old Mar 6th 2009, 3:31 am
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Default Re: NZ Who's country is it?

Originally Posted by slippery View Post
NZ Who's country is it?
Well its anyone who has made New Zealand their home surely. If they happen to be Maori, Asian (or in my case English) should make no difference to who's country it is. We all chose to come to New Zealand (including 800 or so years ago Maori ) because we wanted to live here.
As for Maori being wronged......well as with most things Maori we tend to talk about history. Yes Maori were wronged 169 years ago but can you think of a people over the years that were not wronged also. Britain was invaded by the Romans ,Vikings and the Normans and were seriously wronged at the time. The native Americans were and still are seriously wronged. To infer that Maori are still being wronged though is nonsense. Very obviously white New Zealanders desperately try to find some Maori bloodline in their family to take advantage of the many advantages of being a Maori in NZ. If you disagree with that then I live in a different country to you. Most Maori that I know are good decent people who just want to get on with their lives without being constantly reminded about their ethnicity. They know that they are Maori and do not need anyone to tell them.
I've been pleasantly surprised by how harmonious it all is tbh
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