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This is the thread to discuss which country (NZ on the one hand and the various bits of the UK on the other) has the better school system, better universities and easier entry to professions - NZ or the various state education systems in the UK. A subject of great interest to me as I an contemplating a return to England. I am pretty sure that the schools here are better, but with my elder daughter three years into her schooling at a comparatively well-regarded school I am having my misgivings.

Some thoughts and subjective observations to start off with, entirely at random:

1. In the 2009 PISA rankings (which assess educational levels of 15 year-olds) NZ ranks 4th, 7th and 4th for reading, maths and science respectively. The UK ranks 20th, 22nd and 11th. So on this basis, NZ leaves the UK standing on 'core' subjects.

2. I've heard the UK independent school sector is the best in the world (nice if one can afford it, but we can't).

3. I'm pretty sure that as a 7 year-old I knew more basic facts on various subjects than my 7 year-old.

4. In my experience, Kiwis are in general more dextrous and precise with language than people from the UK.

5. I work in an office of highly educated people, just about none of whom have heard of George Orwell.

6. NZ teachers have an entirely different rapport with their pupils than in England: by comparison it is a more informal, mentoring style (notwithstanding that clear boundaries normally exist).

7. NZ pupil behaviour is on average better (but possibly getting worse whereas I'm told things have improved in the UK over the last few years).

8. NZ has produced a large number of top-rank scientists, all of whom have left NZ. In fact, top-ranked anything seems to mean leaving NZ.

9. Knowing a foreign language is treated as an irrelevance in NZ society; consistently with this, language teaching in schools is an afterthought: it doesn't seem to happen at primary or middle level.

10. Subjects deemed essential for a classical-style education (history, English literature, social sciences generally) aren't emphasised.

11. Teachers here are trusted to get on with the job and have greater freedom to teach what they want and how they want than in the UK (England especially) - although this may be starting to change.

12. Entry into most professions is hard, but probably no more so than England since the downturn there.

13. Universities here are sausage machines but by and large no worse than the average for the developed world (although a German friend of mine disagrees and says she teaches a curriculum which would elicit howls of derison in Germany).

As far as I can tell, a school education in NZ tends to concentrate on the functional basics more than the UK (hence the high PISA rankings)

There are other rankings that put the UK much higher, but I can't figure out precisely what they're measuring. Example: http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

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Christ... I mean NEW ZEALAND schools versus UK schools... could a mod kindly rectify my howling error.

Justcol

Based on my own experience as a parent of two children who have gone through both uk and nz schools

For well rounded children who can think for themselves, find a solution to a problem by thinking outside the box
aren't afraid to try something new and at the end of their school life have qualifications that will get them in university
New Zealand wins hands down.

For kids who are taught to regurgitate just enough facts to get them through a SATS test, are afraid to try something
new for fear of failure, and are used as pawns to make the schools look better on paper and achieve a higher ranking in the
annual league tables
The UK education system is a clear winner

Sherlock Holmes

Done.

Catchafire

My eldest is going start Year 1 at the local school next term.

I think when you start to assess schools you draw a lot on your own experience and what became apparent very quickly, was I would have really liked to have gone to my daughters school.

RachelG12

Behaviour in UK Schools is not improving. When I was at School there were usual 'bad kids' who would distrupt class and be cheeky to teachers to push the boundaries.

My friend (high school teacher), is sworn at daily, spat at, has been threatened with violence by both kids she teaches and their respective parents. She doesn't work in 'the ghetto' but a rather nice area and this school has a good rep! Still a massive problems with weapons being taken to school too.

Haven't yet arrived in NZ to compare, but from what I hear about UK schools, things aren't getting better

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Rachel,

I'm sorry to hear that. My wife had the same experience when teaching in London ten years ago.

One curiosity I have about the English system is the special needs regime. I am not aware of any equivalent in NZ. I suspect that things falling within its scope are dealt with informally by schools here.

I wonder if English schools - which seem highly structured - need this (cumbersome-looking) special needs regime because teachers in England are told what and how to teach - even if it p!sses the kids off?

Also, I find myself having to pay for various extra activities run by the school - sports etc, which I'm pretty sure my parents didn't pay for when I was growing up in the UK.

JennyV

Class sizes in New Zealand definitely win from what I've seen so far (and as a qualified UK teacher myself). My daughter is due to start Year 1 next year and her new principal today apologised that there may be 18 in a class instead of their normal 17!! If we'd stayed in the UK there would have been 32 in my daughter's class at our local school. No contest really...

Spacecake799

I would say everyone has their own opinion of the schools and thats fair enough if you have had children go through both school systems.
Personally it is the single biggest reason we have finally left NZ after 6 years. I would have gone sooner if it was possible and feel only relief to have moved back to the UK system.

RedDragon2008

Any experiences from private girls? Preferably in Auckland?

simonsi

Pinehurst on the Shore is excellent and follows the Cambridge curriculum, its coed but our 3 girls are all there and doing great (yrs 2,7 and 9 just finished).

bourbon-biscuit

Just wanted to respond to this because you need to know now that this is no better and no worse in NZ. Expats often get a bit of a social bump when they move to NZ and therefore assume that schools are full of better behaved children than British school. I know teachers in most the schools local to the area I live/lived in (Cambridge- NZ) and I can tell you that even in the high decile schools there is bullying, anti-social behaviour, teen pregnancy, drug taking and selling, violent parents and violent students and teachers who end up burned out and leaving the profession. That's life, innit.

higgy2

My wife has worked in Bedlington Community High School and Blyth Community College (Northumberland UK) the latter had a bad reputation from outsiders.

The behaviour of some students was bad but not over the top, there was a bullying system in place and discipline was monitored from teachers up through middle management to the Head.

Her school in Hamilton has far, far worse discipline problems and it is not addressed, therefore on paper there are no problems at the school.

She has taught for over 20 years and has never seen such disregard for authority within this school in NZ.

Cannot speak for other schools save one, Hillcrest where a UK family returned back home due to the poor overall standard at this NZ school.

So for anyone with school age children - do your homework and investigate
fully to get the best you can for your children.

Edit - Forgot to mention class size is normally 28

Justcol

S'funny that, I have friends who sent 3 kids to Hillcrest and all have done very well

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Hillcrest High and Hillcrest Normal have good reputations within Hamilton. Families will move into their zones so their children can jump the waiting list. I'm not sure that Hamilton overall has a great educational reputation though.