Damages

Anyway, to amuse myself, I was counting the number of seconds between oncoming cars.

Hmm!! Spot the the pilot!!

But seriously our son, Alex, is utterly determined to become an airline pilot so we were hoping that NZ may offer better opportunities in this direction (please advise). We have noticed that there is a Bachelor of Aviation degree course over there which we don't have here. Being an enthusiastic microlight flyer I am very keen to get into alot of flightseeing over some of the most breathtaking landscapes.

It seems that we have a few musos on the forum too! Me too! I have played for many years.

kiwijetpilot

Oh yes, NZ is a great country for aviation.

Where are you at the moment?

Amongst my other "enterprises" I am starting a pilot training centre.

Once I know where you are, I can give you some more relevant info on flying.

Cheers!

Kayser Soze

Got no complaints with the rest of the stuff but heating!!!! These places are cold. Woodburners - fine if you sit on them.

Wood houses = garden sheds = cold .

K.S.

kiwijetpilot

Oh come now, it is never cold on the Kapiti Coast (not the bit I live on, anyway!)

Yeah I still miss my UK central heating, but having said that, our house is well insulated (wood being a good insulator), has all the usual fibreglass insulation etc. This last winter, we got by fine with one fan heater, one mobile oil radiator, and some 500W ceramic panels.

This year, I am putting in underfloor polystyrene insulation, which should cut my heating bill by a third (and will cost me NZD500, so it is a good investment).

My NZ power bill is accordingly very small compared to what it cost to heat my Scottish house - we spent over 800 pounds on heating fuel (Calor gas) alone, the last year we were there (2003). Electricity cost us over 900 pounds for the year. That works out to roughly NZD4500 for the year, or NZD375 per month. My average power bill here on the Kapiti Coast is NZD188.00 - less than half what it cost in the UK - and that is for a house half as big again as my UK house.

Another interesting one is Rates (Council Tax). In the UK, out in the countryside north of Edinburgh in a very small village with no public amenities, we paid GBP1880 per year (about NZD4950). My rates here on the Kapiti Coast, 30 miles north of Wellington, are NZD1284.00 - that is nearly a quarter of what I paid in the UK. If you factor in the stuff that we pay extra for here (like rubbish collection), my UK Council Tax is still over three times more expensive than my NZ rates.

That is why I have such a hard time believing people who say they can't afford to live here. You would have to be on a pretty low wage to have problems. All the expats around where I live are professional or middle-management level, and they have large houses, nice cars and boats, and generally do not appear to be struggling...

The key to NZ is to innovate and be entrepreneurial. If you just want to work at a low-paid job, yes, you will struggle. But you were probably struggling back in the UK too.

In the UK, I was a senior airline captain on over GBP70K per year. We had a 4 bed detached house in the Scottish countryside. Most months, when the bills were paid, we had little or nothing left in the bank.

In NZ, I can live a much nicer lifestyle (for my tastes), I have a larger house, newer cars, and I can do this on a quarter of my UK income.

Your mileage may vary, of course...

Damages

Hi Simon, Phyllis here, Ali's wife. We're in North-West London at the moment. We occasionally go up to Popham Airfield in Hampshire and Ali and Alex have had the odd flight (financially prohibitive as a hobby). I'm a librarian and have made a few enquiries about working in that field in NZ (get those images of tweed and lace out of your mind, I'm not that kind of librarian, in fact that kind of librarian no longer exists). We're hoping to move to the South Island but hope to remain somewhere relatively urban, we don't want anything that's too much of a culture shock for the kids. The info you have provided so far has been really helpful and we may be in touch at some point about pilot training. We're looking at being in NZ within the next year so that Alex doesn't have to spend too long in a cruddy school.

Kayser Soze

So if your salary is a quarter of UK and your rates are a third of UK this means NZ rates are a greater % than they were in UK?

I think many things are cheaper in NZ (Cars, petrol, car insurance, eating out etc) but people coming here need to know they will be paid alot less than UK.

I always tell people you don't come to NZ for the money, you come for the outdoor life, the beautiful country side and to catch up on your sleep, relax, then go back to UK and feel alive again!! :scared:

6 weeks to go in sunny Waikanae and back we go but it's been fun but all too to stay forever.

K.S.

kiwijetpilot

No, it doesn't quite work like that! I earn less here because I am starting my own business. If I was doing the same thing that I was doing in the UK, I would be earning about half what I did in the UK. I would therefore be better off here.

If being alive means doing battle with the M25 etc, I think I'll stay here. Have fun back in the UK though.

Kayser Soze

Yes and good luck to you with the business venture - looked at the web site and certainly know lots of folk look at the NZ real estate agent pages so help with plans,views etc is a massive aid to buying for those who can't be here.

Done all my battles with the M25 though was more looking forward to the Suffolk countryside, visiting castles and cathedrals, the tickets I have booked to see Pavarotti, U2, Queen and Van Morrison, live sport (NOT rugby :scared: ), touring europe starting with a £0.99 flight from Ryanair, TV where you don't get an advert every 4 mins and the feeling of being in the world and not on the edge looking in (just my view of course!!!).
Appreciate some people have no interest in these things and I know they can't compete with the Waikanae sausage sizzle and summer bazaar!

So all UK is not the M25 as NZ is not South Auckland, East Porirua, a gang murder in Palmy North or having to be on Sh1 at 6am to get into Wellington on time. (Will they ever complete another bridge on the Waikanae river or Transmission gully - maybe in another 50 years!!!)

You might like to see how some in UK view the current state of NZ house prices :scared:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/for...topic=6049&hl=

K.S.

kiwijetpilot

Cheers!

Yes, when we were in the UK we deliberately avoided big urban areas, as a result we lived in some really lovely spots - Chicksands in Beds was one, in an old farmhouse next to a forest; our last place in Scotland was another, by a loch in a tiny village. They were wonderful places to live.

The TV here is totally ad-ridden, I agree, very much like US TV. But then I rarely watch TV so I don't care.

Regarding the house price bubble thing, I absolutely agree. You have to be very, very careful where you buy in NZ. Anywhere that has risen rapidly - Nelson, Hawkes Bay, etc- I would avoid like the plague. Same with a lot of inner city apartments. The Kapiti Coast is unlikely to drop as it has been growing strongly and steadily for a few years now, but people spending a million bucks for a fairly ordinary house in Nelson should be worried.

The UK has one set of advantages, and NZ another. Neither is "better" than the other; you pays your money and takes your choice! Personally, I love diversity, so I will always appreciate having lived in Europe.

Bridge over the Waikanae River? Maybe.

Transmission Gully? Not this side of eternity!

Cheers,

SA Expat

Hi Campbell

Couldn't agree more with the 'NZ Scary Story' as we too could have written it. We arrived in Wellington in April 2002 from Cape Town. We have two daughters aged 13yrs and 5yrs. Crime is almost non-existent in comparison to SA and its all very clean and green. We came from a good area in Cape Town (Durbanville) but weren't wealthy. Our daughter attended Kenridge Primary, a good govt school. The NZ school system is completely different to SA. Kindergarten is what I know as a creche and has almost no academic teaching. Kindy is more for socialising - there is usually one big class with like 50 kids or something and you're 'just there'. Pre-school here is not the norm and I think are private. On first arriving my daughter attended the local school - school here is 13yrs not 12. Discipline is almost non-existent and kids in class to a large extent do their own thing. Your child will have to have a lot of self-discipline to do well. My daughter who was average in SA is tops of her class here. At the local school it soon became evident that the volume of work done was a fraction of what she was used to and in Yr6/Std 5 she was given 20min homework per week! Do not be surprised to find the school report listing "Sometimes/Usually/Not Yet". Children here go from 1 year to the next regardless and are only "assessed". We have since put her into a private school which is great and run in much the same way as in SA. She did have to pass a entry test first and I do believe that had she not had such a good basic education in SA she would not have gotten in. It is true that a good percentage of uni students here are immigrants. Kiwis on the whole do not seem to aspire to much and do not appear to be ambitious. I guess that is also partly as there is the social security safety net which we did not have in SA. Hence also a poor work ethic. Has anyone noticed that men and a lot of women all wear only black suits to work? There is a huge gap academically between govt and private schools here, I believe. Govt schools here are zoned so think carefully before you buy. Also check out (private) school fees when considering cost of living. They're astronomical. Most people tend to put their child's name down on a waiting list for private school as soon as they're born so there are often long waiting lists.
Funny enough I've never thought of myself as a shopper until I arrived here - it reminds me of Cape Town 30yrs ago. The shops are really grotty - picture an old OK Bazaars and the supermarkets are on about the same level as Shoprite/Checkers. Nothing remotely like Woolworths here. There is also very little choice here, furniture included. Now I really miss the shops. We find the food quality is poor here too, especially the meat. Sausage here is a mixture of I don't know what and flavoured. Another big difference is that possibly with the exception of Auckland you don't get the different range of suburbs according to wealth as you do in SA. Its pretty much the same level in all suburbs. Houses are not wooden as I had thought but merely have a timber frame with gib (chipboard or hardboard, not quite sure what) inbetween. You could put your fist through an inner wall, no problem. Reminds me of pre-fab. Mould grows inside your house like you wouldn't believe and if you have a leather jacket for instance, be careful. My handbags went mouldy. It truly is freezing here and houses mostly have corrogated iron roofs. It seems to be fairly common here to have a leaky roof so bear that in mind if you plan to buy a house. I also find the linen (bedding) to be of a much poorer quality of say Woolies or Edgars. If you do plan to emigrate here stock up as much as possible on bedding and clothing, especially the warm sort. Also if you have good wood furniture bring it with. You'll find that cupboard space is generally a great deal less here too and people tend to live out of a chest of drawers. It seems to be the norm here for a single cupboard door in children's bedrooms and a two-door in main bedroom which would all be just hanging space. En-suites also not the norm.
Very, very windy in Wellington and you lie awake wondering if you'll keep your roof. NZ has a higher rain fall than the UK and Auckland has more rain than Wellington although it is warmer there. Sky TV is only a fraction of what DSTV has and although you have the freedom to be outdoors in a way we never had in SA re safety bear in mind that the weather here does not suit that. Kiwis seem to wear summer clothing just because the sun is shining but it is still freezing! Summer here is like a SA winter. There is very little to do for teenagers other than sport/swimming (pools here are indoor public mainly)/walking or movies. My 13yr old really does get very bored. On the whole I do find the kiwis to be very friendly but also find their world is very small. I do miss SA newspapers and find they give much more world news in them than here. However I do tend to read up quite a bit on the internet for which we pay a flat monthly rate which is part of our phone bill, so thats really nice. Not like the rip off in SA with Telkom.
Saying all the above I do agree staying in SA is not an option and NZ is not all bad but I would recommend you look very carefully and perhaps also look elsewhere. What about the USA or Oz? They will be changing the citizenship waiting period here from 3yrs to 5yrs shortly. Please bear in mind this is our experience only and I can only talk of a CT to Wellington experience. Most expats here do seem to be happy and I do realise that one has to adjust, etc but does one have to lower one's expectations/standards to do so?

Campbells

Thanks for the post SA Expat,

Thank God it’s Saturday and thank God that my wife & I are not “shoppers�. I do understand that there is necessity shopping and shopping because there is nothing else to do. Personally, I’d rather watch the sea.

Surprised to hear you say the quality of food there is poor as NZ lamb (for example) is world renowned. The downside to shopping in SA that you have perhaps forgotten about is that buy a trolley of shopping today & do the same shop thirty days later & you will be horrified. There is NO CONTROL here (it seems on anything !) and people just charge what they like. Doesn’t really fit-in with the BEE story but please tell me what in SA does fit in? Perhaps bullets into guns?

Edgars & woollies, must agree Woollies have some nice things but on a global perspective SA quality is very poor. Have a coffee in Carnaby St (London) and there you will experience real quality not to forget service as it seems SA does not offer the shopping experience like Europe.

Suburbs & wealth ! Well, our experience of Cape Town , living admittedly in Gordon’s Bay was that there is the haves (like the Telkom robbers) and the have-nots. The have-nots were folk that we met in their early 40s earning around R 2000 p/m salary.

Perhaps we should start a new scary story as our experience of the Cape that it was (& still is) 30years behind and comparing SA to for example Europe we are probably five years behind in technology & another 20 in attitude. In other words right from the Gov down very few folk want to take RESPONSIBILITY and I guess it has to do with the average South African’s growing up being used to getting someone else to do the dirty work.

Yes, it is no secret that I have HAD IT with SA and the whole country for us is becoming a dump. That includes Sandton Bryans ton and let’s not forget the most expensive real estate in SA, Bantry Bay, there the streets & beaches stink of urine etc. So wealth doesn’t equate to decent living anymore. Lets not even mention Sea Point !! Personally I laugh as I drive thought the yuppie suburbs where they have their designer six-foot walls that look great with artistic electric fences on top as well as the six-foot high grass that is now growing along the street to match the roads that are falling apart. Good 4 x 4 sales !

As for TV, I disconnected my Ariel (by accident ) six months ago & have never re-connected it & has been great. If we feel like a movie we rent a DFVD when we feel like it. Well to be honest I was becoming DEPRESSED jut hearing (not DSTV) about how the latest gov scam has been discovered, like stealing from the Children’s Fund etc etc etc etc and NOTHING is done about it. Of course hearing all the crime stories is not entertainment either and for those reasons we DO NOT read local newspapers. I would rather watch paint dry.

Very little to do for teenagers. Well try a hobby like sailing, fishing, skiing, hiking, etc etc etc. Where w live, five minutes from Fourways Mall you see teenagers that are not bored but for us , we will NOT bring our child up like that and we understand the concept of leading by example so it means we gotta get of our butts & take the wee lad out with us.

Weather:
No problem, I’m from Scotland so a wee splash of wind or rain never hurt. We too did our sleepless night holding onto the roof in Gordon’s Bay. Boy, sandblasting took a whole new meaning. Actually amazing how I found that a lot of Capies actually snubbed me or refused to speak English and deemed me as a Redcoat. The biggest insult to a Scotsman; call him English !

So all in all you can no-doubt hear from my tone that I’ve had it here. I do still love SA but I do not enjoy what is going on here and most folk think it Zimbos No 2 ! You can still drive a fancy car here & have a fancy home but that means NOTHING when someone sticks a gun in your face & pulls the trigger for a mobile phone OR LESS.

So my advise is enjoy the wind & the rain & thank God that your lack of sleep is only due to the considering the loss of your roof & not you & your families life.

In closing I do hope that I do not offend you in any way as this is not directed at you but I do get angry with the SA state of affairs, after all I thought this was my home. Of course, this too is only my opinion & experience.

Have a lekker weekend,

Campbell.

kiwijetpilot

You know, it's weird. You read some of these stories and you would swear you were living in a different country.

So - to answer some of these points:

Well it may be in the school your children are in, but it certainly is not the case where my children are - the discipline there is very firm indeed; and this is a public primary school.

This, like all the comments on education, misses the point. The system is different here, and you simply can't make arbitrary comparisons between individual schools in different countries - there are too many variables. If you want to get a reliable indicator, you need to check out some reliable international statistics. For example, if you look at PIRLS figures ( Progress in
International Reading Literacy Study) you can compare stats for science, maths and reading (literacy) across the world. In maths, the international average is 467. New Zealand has an Average Scale Score of 494, England and Scotland score 498, and South Africa scores 264 (cf http://isc.bc.edu/timss2003i/mathD.html). In science, the international average is 474. NZ scores 520, England 544, Scotland 512, South Africa 244. In literacy, the international average is 500, NZ scores 529, England 553, and Scotland 528. Sadly, South Africa doesn't take part in that one, but there is no reason to believe that the same trend as in maths and science doesn't exist in literacy.

So from those stats, one could say that South Africa is nowhere in education, which I am sure some here will dispute!

The only real-world indicator that matters is where NZ students are when they leave school. With NZ graduates in demand around the world, I doubt that our system is seriously flawed (although I do have issues with some of the stuff they get up to).

That is simply not true. NZers are well known to be amongst the most entrepreunerial, innovative and success-driven people in the western world.

Also not true, check out the comparative stats on the Ministry of Education website.

Yes there is. It is called - funnily enough - Woolworths. The one in Johnsonville, for example, is large, new, and open 24 hours. You can buy anything from a carrot to a TV.

Where have you been shopping, Petone? The shopping areas in the main centres are the equal of anything in Europe. Are you seriously suggesting that shopping areas such as Lower Queen St, Botany Downs, North City etc are not great shopping areas?

Some houses are externally wood, some brick. All have a wooden frame, internal insulation and, usually, Gib board on the walls. Just like Oz, the UK, America, etc. Gib is common in many countries. Know why? It doesn't burn, and it is an excellent insulator. It is a much better, and much safer, internal building material than wood - which is why it is so widely used.

It certainly doesn't get mouldy in my house, or in any other I have ever lived in in NZ (about 30). Try applying a little wardrobe heat. You shouldn't need it, though.

Total nonsense! If it leaks, it is faulty. Fix it.

You have got to be kidding. In our little town, there is swimming, sailing, any team sport you can think of, horse-riding, dirt bike and 4WD trails, sand yachts, skydiving, flying, gliding, diving, surfing, mountain bike trails, kayaking, tramping/hiking, movies, activity parks, skateboard parks, fishing, lots of cafes, all the usual burger places, internet cafes, and so on. Try finding even half of that in most of the UK (of course SA may have millions of things for kids to do... nah, probably not).

You can find large numbers of bored kids in all urban areas, even youth paradises like Los Angeles.

My point? If you don't like NZ, fine, head off to Oz or somewhere. But don't paint a false picture for all the others who want to come here. Make sure you have your facts straight before bursting into print. A lot of what you have written is questionable, some of it is downright wrong.

It seems that what this forum needs is a few more Kiwis to correct some of the misapprehensions and misinformation that seems to appear from time to time...

I'm sorry if that all seems a little harsh, but quite frankly when my country is described in such innacurate terms, I find it slightly offensive. Opinion is one thing, facts are another.

Campbells

Hey Kiwijetpilot,

I am arriving 28th Feb and will based in Auckland for the job-hunt thing but I want to see as much as poss of NZ so hope to get around a good bit too. Probably on the weekends.

To the point:
You good to hook-up for a beer sometime? I need to do some forward planning & start a network of Kiwi friends so I is putting out da feelers man.

Let me know.

I have a mobile No for NZ that will be activated when I get there. Otherwise PM me your contact details if you’re keen. What instrument do you play by the way?

Cheers the noo Jimmy.

Campbell.

SA Expat

Kiwijetpilot

Sorry if I have offended you but this is my experience as I've said and I know of plenty of other people who feel the same.
Discipline in schools as I know it is definitely not the same here and just looking at these kids from various high schools, mostly untidily dressed in uniform, I know that school principals in SA would not let them through the school gate even. I do get the point about the school system being different here and yes being different is fine but its the standard I'm concerned with. You cannot compare the schools in SA when it comes to averages (literacy rates for example) as I'm sure Campbell would fully understand. 2yrs ago I did go into it all quite indepth and did you know that in the top 50 universities worldwide NZ did not even feature. Wits in SA did. SA also did better than NZ in the International Maths Olympiad. The ERO report for our local schools are excellent but sorry from personal experience don't mean a thing to me and did nothing for my daughter's education.
According to the NZ govt South Africans as a group are the highest earners here with the British and I think the Americans following as compared to Kiwis. They also say that the majority of professional people are foreigners and that kiwis are mostly tradespeople. In 1995 the third most common university qualification in London's financial district and on the boards of the London Stock Exchange's top hundred companies, after degrees from Oxford and Cambridge, was from Wits Uni. Not sure how it stands now.

Yes of course I know about Woolworths here but that is nothing like the one in SA which is on a par with Marks & Spencer and Sainsburys in the UK. I do go to Johnsonville often and still think its grotty by comparison. I have been to Auckland but only for the day so cannot say much about the shopping there. I did say I can only talk about Wellington.
Yes, I'm aware of the reasons of the wood frame houses here but certainly don't find them warm in winter and I know I'm not the only one. We had mould in our bathroom which we've dealt with and yes, heaters in our cupboards which was a funny find on arrival but they're not enough. Also the 'leaky home syndrome' here in not a myth but a widely recognised problem in NZ.
I agree there is plenty of sport and outdoor activity which my daughter does enjoy. She goes tramping/hiking, kayaking, swimming and to the movies but really would like something more on an intellectual side too. She does not particularly like sport but does play basketball.
We are heading off to the States later in the year. I just think Campbell should be more informed and we wish someone had warned us about the poor school system here before we came. Campbell on the other hand might like it as plenty of SA do, after all we can't all want the same things in life. The changes being made to Citizenship requirements re 3yrs to 5 is in response to a request from the Australian govt as it is widely known that NZ is used as a 'back door' to Oz. Wonder why?
Regards
SA Expat

Campbells

Greetings,

The bottom line here for me is that SA is not the place it USED to be. I am not the only one of the opinion that it’s a sinking ship.

Have you heard the recent news that WITS is bankrupt ? That says it all.

Not sure if you read my additions to the thread along the way but I did explain my background and having what some folk may consider a funky youth as we did not have money. One of the best schools is the school of life and for me that starts with the basics; respect, blah blah blah. Not just for other humans but life itself.

We have several very successful (financially) friends and some of my brothers have done extremely well without the credits after their name and are just basic people with passion.

To be quite candid we find (my wife is South African) that the majority of South Africans have this “what’s in it for me� attitude. This starts with the way they drive on the roads and seems to extend into their being and then to top it all “have a nice day�.

You know, the same dude that was going to run you off the road cause he was in a hurry to get to the next meeting to diarize the next meeting to discuss the possibility of setting up a future date to discuss a way forward. Jah, he just offered “have a nice day�.

Now I am certainly in no position to talk about the USA but the yanks that I have met will chew you up, wipe their mouth and extend a hand with a smile. “Next�.

So maybe NZ is backward or backwater for some folk but for us it’s kinda where we are at. We want to chew on life for a bit. Maybe even if the roof leaks a bit !

Was it Socrates that said “to be is to do�? And a few years later old Blue Eyes said “do bee do bee do�.

Cheers

Campbell.