NZ Pros and Cons
 

Since I've been reading this forum I've seen loads of pros and more cons than I expected.
I'm a kiwi who has lived in the UK for most of my working life. Have started 3 business and lost 1 in the recession due to people not paying me. All of the negatives I read can easily be applied to the UK and there seems to be a lot of "the grass is always greener" going on. Where we live in the UK there are a lot of migrants and I and my british friends are always saying "why can't they just adapt to the UK life" the when in rome thing eh.
I'm planning to move my family out of the UK for the sake of my kids.
I thought if I start listing the pros and cons as I see them it may help others without having to search too hard on the forum

so here goes
Cons-

• food is expensive especially out of season and especially when earning NZ dollars.
• Drink Driving. I'm not putting binge drinking because this is also a UK problem but drink driving is a problem in NZ.
• Shops are not on a par with the UK (maybe AKL is an exception.) NZ has not got the buying power of the UK
• Social life is different. NZ doesn't have a pub culture. If you are after going out on Fridays and Saturdays and want to go out to bars with friends NZ may not be for you.
• Crime. NZ per head of population has a pretty high crime rate so don't be fooled that leaving the UK will get you away from crime.
• Government. OK lets be serious. MPs are dodgy where ever you go. Just look at the expenses thing in the UK.
• Exchange rate. No mater what why you look at it, the NZ$ is 25% overvalued. Hopefully this will change when the £ gets back to strength again.

Pros

• The outdoors. You can never be too far away from the bush, a river or a beach in NZ.
• The climate. Yes there is rain but in the summer (except the last one) you normally have a hot summer to look forward to
• Sports. Kids are much more encouraged to play sports in NZ. If you're into winter sports there is a lot of skiing/boarding within driving distance.
• Size of sections. If you came from an average size house in the UK, NZ sections are bigger allowing things like vege patches.

Please add

Re: NZ Pros and Cons
 

Con
Medical and dental is more expensive in NZ than the UK

Re: NZ Pros and Cons
 

You might want to stay away from some. NZ has some of the most polluted rivers in the world.
They look nice but are full of nastiness from farm effluents

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Yeah some rivers and lakes are a real worry and very sad. Before I left NZ in 1996 I was a raft guide in NZ so it's sad to see how they have become so polluted with algae. Hope they clean up.
It doesn't stop me swimming and drinking the water in Lake Taupo or the Rangitikei river every time I come come.

I'm really keen for people to add to this thread as it seems NZ has changed a lot in the 18 years since I left. It's also interesting to get the view of new migrants. Makes me respect what my ancestors went through when they travelled to NZ in the 1830's and 1840's. That sense of "did I do the correct thing" (although they had 10000acres of bush to clear with some horses and axes.

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I don't know where you're heading but you maybe forgot about 'subdivisions' where house are built to capacity upto the edge of the regulation boundary and within spitting distance of your neighbour and very little garden. Most new builds are bunged up in this fashion also, bigger house seems to be more desirable than a bigger garden.

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Not everyone likes a big garden, I detest gardening and like having neighbours I can chat to over the fence.

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ah I see. You were watching Corrie and thought "I want a peice of that, I know, I'll move to NZ" :-)

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Isn't there a limit of building:land ratio? I was under the impression the house could only cover 1/3 the section.

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That might be a local regulation but up in the North Shore you can build up to a certain distance (varies with height of the building), some houses account for >75% of the section size....

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I've seen some recent sub-divs (Hobsonville Point for example) where you walls of one house couldn't have been more than 3 metres from the next. Gardens were "compact" shall we say? I would say in that example however that the neighbourhood seemed to be being given some well-considered attention though - ie it would be a nice area to live, even if your house/section was compromised

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Where the population density is high, maybe, but then in the higher population density areas in the UK you often don't get a garden at all and you share house walls with neighbours. Outside of NZ city centers gardens and plot sizes tend to be bigger than in the towns of Britain. Two of my sisters in Britain live in a happening, desirable city and even though both their husbands work in IT and one sister is a lawyer and the other an accountant, you could still fit both their gardens in the back bit of mine. But then they live within a spit of museums, galleries, music venues, pubs, etc, etc, and neither of them really give a shit about making marmalade. Even in Auckland they could both afford somewhere with a much larger house and garden but they both think NZ is like one big farm with Auckland as the farm house, so they're not coming :rofl:

Cute :) I am a right miserable grump and prefer my neighbours neither seen nor heard :o

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One thing that I do find annoying, is listening to my neighbours splashing in their lovely heated pool. lol

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In that case we're all glad, more for us:rofl:

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I'm not :(

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Same goes for the UK, nowhere is more than 70 miles from the sea and there are some excellent blue flag beaches too. A scheme that New Zealand could implement but somehow never got around to it.

Not that distance matters that much, access is more important and the UK is blessed with its historic rights of way, common land, bridle-paths and freedom to roam legislation. Try taking your dog for a walk in New Zealand and you may be surprised at how restricted that countryside is.

Re: NZ Pros and Cons
 

Pros and cons?

It is very empty, great if you like unpopulous places, bad if you are a keen shopper and need lots of entertaining.

Its beautiful but so it the UK alas the UK is very, very full.

Petrol and car ins are cheap, alas the driving standard is utter SHITE.

Terribly run country, the adminstration is half cocked, never learns and DOES NOT look after the people it is supposed to.

Really shite rules and laws around waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

Too far away from the real world.

Kiwi folk are a hard ask in general in too many ways. I am sure there are some exceptions though.

I feel my kids have a better life here than they would in the UK.

We have a waaaaaaaay better standard of living here in virtually all aspects of our lives inspite of the many, many negative aspects of life here.

Would I return to the UK after 7 years nin NZ? If Kate and the kids wanted to and if I can work out the sums to make it doable!!!!

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Completely subjective of course but you've just bought back memories - for us in Herts, it was about 70 miles to Southend - round the M25 and down the A13 taking X hours depending on traffic. Then having to try to find a parking space, pay X pounds for parking and then there's all the tat and arcade and boy racers going along the front, crowds on the beach to deal with.....and it was only the river Thames really. Or we could have got the train to join the other million people on the stony beach in Brighton!

Here in NZ we've right by 46km of the Kapiti coast, clean, no parking costs, etc. FOR US there is no comparison.

Same as the housing comparison. Comparing the North Shore or other Auckland suburbs to the rest of NZ gives very different experiences. The part of NZ or the UK you live in leads to very different lifestyles.

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Yeah, it's bloody brill- no dogs and their mess on NZ beaches :thumbup:

I came from SW England and we had some fine beaches that were within a day trip and we also explored most the Cornish coastline and some of the Welsh, but NZ's beaches have a couple of things in their favour that few UK ones come close to: 1. no queue and then pay to park 2. you often get the beach to yourself 3. the weather is better 4. the water is warmer.

fwiw, I think walks along coastal footpaths in Britain are unbeatable- better than NZ or Oz beach walks, but the idea that access to NZ beaches is a problem, is crazy. And distance DOES matter in the SW of England when on a sunny day to get anywhere is a driving nightmare as the lanes are choked with tourist traffic. Our favourite beach was a bit secret- you had to park and walk an hour, which deterred most people, but even that one was becoming 'discovered' by the time we left and we'd walk down to it with people in front and people behind and bloody dogs.

Plus, the British weather is crap.

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I would add work as a con. At least if you are a little bit ambitious NZ is NOT for you. Standards are very low. Improvement tends to depend on a few exceptional active people the rest gives a f***. No communication at work, nothing is thought through, and nobody seems to be able to concentrate for longer than 10 minuted. Everything takes forever and ever and ever....never encountered so much incompetence (or lack of interest) before.

Anyhow, why do you guys think that NZ is better for children? That is an utter mystery to me. I never encountered so many people that know young people that killed themselves or got killed in accidents. Scary. Also the incident of infectious disease is quite high here.

Re: NZ Pros and Cons
 

70 miles?!?!?!

This is my local beach on a boiling hot day - tempting isn't it?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...ch_798429c.jpg


And there are plenty of polluted beaches in Britain, including raw sewerage ruining enjoyment of beaches.

Best beaches I have been to here have been in West Wales. Would love to explore the beaches of Cornwall but probably won't have time :thumbdown:

Beach etiquette is also very different here.

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Yes but when the weather is half-decent everyone heads there, so 70miles of traffic jams, then ludicrous parking and huge peeps numbers when you get there....

When the weather is decent here (say 3 times as often as UK), everyone still heads there but there is space when you get there, no parking charges and the traffic isn't too bad with a couple of exceptions (that bridge en route to the Coromandel for e.g.) :)

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The Kopu bridge now has 2 lanes so its a bit better now.
Traffic goes both ways unlike before

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Cool, haven't been that way since it was changed. :thumbsup:

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pros-don't worry about terrorism
people are friendlier, warmer & take time to talk
don't have to get on a plane for a sunny holiday(proper summers)
space to breathe & be creative
enjoy life more, less stressed
much more casual & relaxed

cons- worry about natural disasters

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I'd give Bournemouth and the SW coast over Nelson and Bays any day. There again I lived a 10 min free walk to the sea on the SW coast of the UK. Here I have to wait for the tide and hope I can get round in time before the Talleyban wall prevents me & it's not really that good TBH.

If you really want to check worldwide , use Blue Flag.

I have friends and family regularly using UK beaches , sea and shores with not much bother at all TBH. They aren't wind blown, insect bitten or finding odds and sods, fish guts, old nasties in the water either.

One wants to beware the comparisons . There are plenty of polluted places here in NZ. More than one would want. We live by one of what was the most toxic NZ dumps ever & the hot spots are still here from what we are told and what people will not say. It's right by an estuary.

Further, think of burn time. sand flies, undertows & other things in the waters.

Let's get sensible & realistic out there.

You may get a beach with not hardly a soul out there , under the pine trees to shelter and covered in sun screen, insect repellent, clothes and sunnies .

You can get people spread out on a crowded beach, jostling for space, noise I suppose, just chilling, swimming, without all of the above.

Swings and roundabouts. I find . So much more stressful here for us.

I have some great pics of friends back home doing just that. Chiling. Kayaking. Having holidays and fun.

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Too true BEVS. Whatever floats your boat. Bournemouth beach doesn't do it for me after seeing heaving crowds when it's hot. Jostling with thousands of people with the ever present smell of chip fat and chsvs drinking copious amounts of alcohol doesn't float my boat. I also hate beaches with piers....ugggh. But that is just me. Give me Tunnel Beach, Aramoana, St Clair, Warrington, Karitane beach anyday. Strangely we didn't frequent the beaches when we were younger (or rarely did) we spent most of our time at lakes and rivers.

Hardly any sandflies down south (or at least they don't like my blood). All the things you state are equally prevalent in the UK (and worldwide probably) too BEVS. Some people are allowed to prefer NZ beaches, and/or UK beaches. I have never had to use insect repellant in NZ other than on the west coast. Totally personal preference :thumbsup:

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Don't come to Nelson unless you are sandfly proof. Summer you need the day long protection. Same for the sun and the wind really.
You're talking with someone who spent their whole life by the water. Sea and rivers.

As for the other stuff about Bmth . Well. You know what. That's me , my family and friends you are talking about there love.

It may not float your boat of course but it is blue flag, clean & 5 miles long.You just have to move away from the usual BH tourist spots to find great space ,which is not hard at all.

You wanna see Mapua of a summer. :unsure: Actually. Don't.

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Cons

If you are in anyway remotely ambitious or career driven, you will find there are very limited opportunities in NZ (even in Auckland) as a country of very small businesses in a very small country.
You can count the number of large organisaitons on one hand and most of them are Australian owned. Salaries have been static for the past 5/6 years in most industries and the unemployment rate stuck around 6.8%.
My recommendation if you fall into the "ambitious" category is to forget NZ and go to Australia instead (similar lifestyle, better standard of living, average take home pay for most jobs at least 40% higher - in my case almost double)

The "she'll be right" atttitude drives you mad after a while. Kiwis don't like serious debate on anything - that's why the country has been run by crap politicians / same old status quo for years and is going economically nowhere

The weather is not as good as people say it is. It rains A LOT in Auckland and can get quite cold through July & August. Also very high hummidity for 6 weeks during Jan & Feb

There is very little night life during the week in Auckland, most bars / places will be dead by around 10pm

Kiwis can be quite insular - very family oriented socialising - BBQ's; bring a plate dinners / lunches etc. Quite a lot of them have never ventured overseas and in some cases not to the South Island either

Very isolated from the rest of the world. Feels about 20 years behind the UK and about 10 years behind Australia

Limited culture - opera / theatre / major pop stars (even in Auckland).

Media - very limited. Only one main paper a day in the main centres (NZ Herald - Auckland; Dominion - Wellington; The Press - Christchurch)

Public transport - very poor, even in the big cities. Most households need at least one car to get around. It would be very tough living in Auckland without one.

Roads - roads are pretty poor. "Motorway" - which is really more like a British dual carriageway - only exists around the main cities (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch). Generally takes a long time to drive to any regional centre, particulalry on public holidays where roads get clogged in bad jams as everyone heads out of the city.

Volcanoes & earthquakes - the whole country, no matter where you live, is susceptible to these. It is only a matter of time IMHO before a big quake hits Wellington - according to the scientists it is well overdue - and why people live there, god only knows.

Cost of living has become very high over the past 10 years relative to local NZ salaries (our rates bill has just gone up 40% in Auckland due to the "super city" transition - but they will nicely phase that in 10% a year over the next 3 years - how nice of the council. !!)

Ridiculous "Political Correctness"

Too many welfare beneficiaries (around 1/8 of population) and too many getting Working for Families benefit & interest free student loans. If you are double income, no kids you get totally slugged in tax supporting these handouts to all and sundry. Increasingly becoming an "entitlement" culture.

Pros
Very beautiful country

Laid back attitudes, "cruisey" life. Most office jobs everyone is out the door by 5pm sharp

The sports teams do well at winning medals & competitions - so you have a team to support who are likely to do well

Varied scenery - quite possible to go skiing one day in central North Island and sailing the next in Auckland

Good wine, although cheaper prices in my parents' 5000 population village in Scotland

No-one gives a toss about celebreties

Has a plentiful water supply and good food resources - good to deal with future probs due to climate change

Population is generally very down to earth & practical - few heirs & graces / upper classes

Cheaper petrol than UK but cars more $$$ to buy

Outdoor lifestyle

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Could all be worse you could be in scotland
2 days a year good weather, means the whole population seem to aim for the beach on the same days (feels like they all go to the same one)
Takes 3hrs for a what should be a 40min journey
Neds with buckfast, BBQs and pitbulls just add to the lovely experience

worried about sandflies try MIDGES:eek:

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Indeed !!!!!
Bottom line is that nowhere is perfect though, for me, NZ has much less going for it these days than it had 10 years ago.
That's why 50,000 odd Kiwis are voting with their feet and heading off to Australia annually

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Dumbledore. Great post and I agree 100% with all your cons.

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I'm sorry BEVS if I offended you. I was having half a crack at the great British stereotypes of beaches. I didn't mean for you to take it personally :yield:

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Bournemouth beach is beautiful, as are the Winter Gardens and the Chines. It may get busy during the summer (probably because it's so nice) but in the winter the locals pretty much get it to themselves. Last time I was there the sand was raked daily and there was a very good recovery scheme to return lost children to their owners :D. At the end of the summer they used to hold a lights festival in the gardens, do they still do that Bevs? My favourite part of it was Hengistbury Head

http://www.bugbog.com/images/beaches...head-beach.jpg

My other favourite beaches are in west Wales, Devon and Scotland, places like Freshwater West and Mellon Udrigle

http://thegirloutdoors.files.wordpre...eshwater-w.jpg

http://www.nafirchlis.co.uk/image/walks/walk58.jpg

I know a few that don't get crowded and are wild, beautiful places where you can cockle to your heart's content and then retreat to a local inn for a real ale and warm by the fireside. Some of those beaches are accessed by country lanes where you can pick wild elderberries and blackberries in the autumn and sloes for Christmas gin.

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Some of the beach's on the west coast of Scotland up towards Oban are incredible.

A big con has to be the distance away from family. I skype my family every day so they can say hi to the kids. How does everyone cope. Do you visit home or have people visit you each year?

Re: NZ Pros and Cons
 

pros - scenery, empty beaches, clean air, clean water, good coffee.

cons - crime, xenophobia, feeling ostracised as an expat, high cost of living, low wages, long way from family and home, lack of culture or short history, nouveau riche materialism, crime, dangerous drivers, slack attitudes, small sections with big houses, bad taste architecture, conversation consists of 'mortgages, beer, rugby, sport' and gossip. Earthquakes. Last and not least - poor, slow and corrupt medical system.

feeling like you dont belong.


Why is everyone leaving?

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Pretty much agree with you.
Struggling to find too many positives to add.
Socially, its a disaster. If it wasnt for the other expats, it would be truely dire around here. Dull. Nowhere that you really want to go when it comes around to the weekend. Im now think Im lucky to have been brought up in the UK with broader outlook and experiences.
I cant think of one reason why you wouldnt try somewhere else in the Uk before you ever tried NZ. Its like living in a corridor.
To add to Rix's list of cons - housing is appalling for the most part, damp, cold and noisy; Justice system, ha ha. Fancy a nice night out in a country pub with interesting locals? Ha ha forget it. Do you love listening to really really loud cars all day and night - youll love it here then.