jgombos

:scared:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_tot_cri_cap#

Jeeper

Did you read and understand the definition of crime on that website.
I'm sure many places in the world have higher crime but much of it goes un-reported.
NZ'ers reported pretty much everything.....many places in the world they don't bother calling police for small things as they know police won't have time or resources to deal with it imo.

on_the_last

I think the data is badly flawed:
E.g. Fraud per capita, NZ is ranked third. Nigeria ranks second on Government Corruption, and yet doesn't seem to post any stats on Fraud.
E.g. Death penalty (date of last execution): China and USA aren't listed and yet they have executed people since 2000 (data is from 2003). 1995 is latest execution noted - Lithuania.

Treat this with caution, it depends on what various states record as crime and, as kelvynd said, it depends on what gets reported.

R.

jgombos

Yeah, that was my understanding. I was also accounting for a factor that was not mentioned on the site - which is the fact that having lots of laws on the books can drive up crime rate. Looking at the list of crime categories, take a look at the one for victimless crimes (drug offenses):

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_dru_off

NZ is third on the list. This indicates that NZ isn't as high on civil liberties as I thought it was. If these figures are accurate, it means NZ doesn't exactly have a live and let live philosophy.

A high tattle-tale factor can be good or bad. It's good when the reported crime has a victim, or a potential victim. But then I have a dim view of this kind of reporting: an elderly Florida resident calling the police every time a teenager is loitering with friends in front if their apartment complex. Or a neighbor calling the police because your grass is too high, or an inoperable car is on the driveway.

I'm not saying that's how it is in NZ. You folks tell me. I'm just starting to get the feeling that NZ isn't the civil libertarian type of community that I thought it was. I think I might have jumped to conclusions when I studied NZs nuclear policy and read that pre-employment drug testing is rare if ever.

K9s

I have read a few of your posts and they mention drugs
If you are moving to NZ to smoke Pot, perhaps you would be better off staying in the US

K9

scottish

Why? In our experience smoking pot is very acceceptable to teh point where most people grow their own. No chemical stuff in NZ purely organic.

jgombos

No, I don't do drugs. However, my heart is still with the communities that respect peoples cognitive liberties and civil liberties. I consider degree of tolerance for pot smokers to serve as a reasonable measurement of civil liberties overall (that is, the non-economic kind of civil liberties).

FYI- The US is a horrible place to smoke pot. With the exception of just a couple cities, it is far from being tolerated here. American cops are actually pulling cars over randomly, and searching them for drugs, and they are doing so without probable cause. Not only do Americans discriminate against the peaceful lifestyle of the pot smoker, but the fourth amendment has eroded away completely. I could go on about how the US Patriot Act is actually being used against our own people (as well as harmless immigrants/visitors). It's pretty sick when you consider that the US has a reputation worldwide as being a "free country". It's actually a motivator for leaving the US.

Den13

Lies, damn lies and statistics....

I feel safe here. You see people hitching along roads alone. You don't see much graffitti or litter. I've walked into the most out of the way pubs and been made welcome.

Sure it's got it's problems. But where hasn't?

jrsuk73

I have been offered a job in NZ and part of the conditions of me getting the job is to have a company drugs test.(which i must say won't be a problem).Also i have family in NZ and they come back here on holiday to visit and they are adamant they would not move back to this country if you paid them, when they are here they can't wait to get back they say they don't feel safe here and can't understand why anybody would want to bring their children up in such a crime and violent society.Please don't hang us for this i am just quoting what a family member has said to us.

Jon

jgombos

Sorry to hear that. A year ago I read an article saying that employment drug testing was non-existent in NZ, and that airlines were considering drug testing - which was met with resistence. I was impressed.. but it seems I was mislead. Any chance you're a pilot?
So your family was visiting the UK from NZ? Were their comments with respect to the UK?

According to NationMaster, the UK and New Zealand have the same rates of murders and assaults. But it's hard to make sense of these figures. NationMaster has UK ranked 46 for murders, yet when I was in the UK in 2000, I recall seeing a televised news report claiming the UK to have the highest murder rate.

Den13

I would have thought it meant the murder rate was the highest its been in the UK. I think South Africa takes some beating on that one.

Murders still make the news in Britain and I don't recall ever hearing that our rate is particularly high. We jail more people than most other nations though.....

Jeeper

I think it would be good if that website displayed 'violent crime rates' rather than just reported crime rates.
It would also be good if we could be absolutely certain of the websites accuracy - which I doubt it currently is.
I am from NZ and lived in UK for 1 year....certainly felt a whole lot safer in NZ.
MHO

livewire

There certainly has been a lot in the press recently about drug testing for workers in meat plants. It would seem that P and pot are the two most commonly used substances that employers are worried about. Having spaced out or paranoid workers could be considered to be a significant problem in workplaces where a lot of dangerous equipment is being used.

Then there was the celebrity drug ring case where the rich and powerful were using "coke" as their recreational dug of choice.

I also know that the incidence of pot use is quite high amongst the high school population. There are many little bush areas around the North Shore where "strange smells" waft around when school's out.

Recreational drug use is a problem in most countries, all that society can do is to educate their young people to say "No" and reducethe demand. Still not sure if the legal party pills they sell here are a good idea or not - they may keep kids away from the "hard" stuff but is it as good as saying it's ok to get out of your head and increase their desire to try other substances as well?

jgombos

Testing for THC does not test for impairment, contrary to popular belief. It tests for lifestyle. Employers don't want "potheads" working for them. They don't care that pot users are typically using it at home (not the workplace - after all, it's not in the employees interest to be impaired on the job either). Some employers might even be aware that you can test someone immediately after they've smoked, and the result will be negative (proving that urine tests do not test for impairment). At least in the U.S., drug testing is only effective as a tool for discriminating against unconventional lifestyles. An airline pilot can sniff I line of coke, pee in the cup (and pass), and then get on the plane. Impairment is rarely tested.
Education certainly makes a heck of a lot more sense than the drug war that is being pushed by the conservatives. The only problem with education is that they're still trying to use reefer madness propaganda. Instead of simply stating the facts, high school kids are lied to as an attempt to control the kids decision making. The reason this doesn't work is high school kids are not that dumb - they know they're being lied to, and the reaction is to not trust anything the health teacher tells them about drugs, even the risks that are represented correctly. So the education must be accurate in order to be effective.. at least at the high school level. Brainwashing k-6 students with bogus info probably works.
Heck no. The legal pills are more dangerous. Getting euphoric effects from legal substances requires a strange mixture of high doses of herbal substances that aren't adequitely tested. Herbal ecstasy actually killed some kids a rave (I think the rave was called Circa 97 or something). The investigation revealed that the concoction of herbal ecstasy that was served was completely composed of legal herbs. You don't want your kids substituting E with herbal E. The risks of ecstacy are reasonably understood, and kids who take a single dose of it and stay hydrated are not likely to have any problems. The herbal stuff is risky.

BTW- I'm not sure why you would have the law determine health risks of a drug. Politicians make lousy doctors; and it's evident when you compare tobacco laws to marijuana laws.

Gill and Rob

I have been told the way crime statistics are reported in NZ has an adverse effect on the statistics. For example:-

A drunk drives up to a girl hits her over the head, rapes her and steals her bag.

I have been told this would be classed as a single crime in the UK in regard to statistics however in NZ it would be classed as 4 crimes in the NZ statistics.

No matter what at the end of the day my family and Ifeel safer in NZ than we did in the UK. We are happy for our kids to go to the park alone here and would never have done that in the UK.

Rob