Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > New Zealand
Reload this Page >

NZ immigration - is it really luck!

NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Old Jan 5th 2016, 11:40 am
  #1  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default NZ immigration - is it really luck!

No of course it isnt!

This is my first post, and just wanting to ask a couple of questions if someone is free to answer me that would be fab.

I have had NZ in the back of my mind for probably 10 years or so. I have a sister over their who is my only sibling.

I made an EOI from an overseas territory which was rejected because they said that it wasnt a comparable market. So i parked it.

Came to the UK gained a Masters and have got work experience in a role which appears on the skilled migrant list. Whoop whoop! So now i have comparable work experience.

So heres my question. The "skilled occupations list" is that the "future growth" or "absolute skills shortage" category. Yes i get it, it should be clear but its not!

So next question. The skilled occupations cat, is that the one that refers to job offers, and thats why its either qualification and/or work experience? Or can that cat be used for a visa application without a job offer?

Even with a BA Hons, a Masters and being a PQ accountant, i still appear to only have just 105-125 points depending on what i key in. So then my next question, why does it seem like they just dont want to let me in! Its not the land of milk and honey i have been there so i know what its got to offer, and obviously i have done lots of research, why is it then such a trauma to get in for some people? (I dont need to be told the logistics of it all i have actually worked on immigration policy and know the ins and outs of it - just asking the question).

Tah
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 11:53 am
  #2  
BE Enthusiast
 
Hazelnut's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 567
Hazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond reputeHazelnut has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

The skilled occupations list is a separate thing from both the future growth and the absolute skills shortage lists.

There's a lot more information on it here What is Skilled Employment? - Immigration NZ Knowledgebase
There's also an appendix that's specifically for NZ within the Immigration New Zealand Operational Manual http://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual/35165.htm

My understanding is that you can claim points in the Qualifications (second section) part of the calculator (https://www.immigration.govt.nz/pointsindicator/) even if you don't have a job offer but you can't claim points in the 'Skilled Employment' first section unless you do. I have recognized qualifications within what is classed as a skilled occupation but I can't get a job offer in my field and it's not on the future growth or skills shortage list.

I guess the answer to your question about immigration is that NZ has enough homegrown accountants to not need to import them, same as for my profession. I'd have enough points for automatic selection if I had a job offer but I don't without one There's enough homegrown kiwis with my qualification and experience set that they don't need to import me. Thankfully my husband's career is in high demand and I have time to retrain for a new one but that does mean I'm ditching multiple PG qualifications and 25yrs experience at a high level in my current career and starting at the bottom in a new one.
Hazelnut is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 12:09 pm
  #3  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Thanks for that.

I have also retrained, i thought that would be the golden ticket so to speak. I surpose if there are enough home grown accountants that would also give the impression that the market would be pants, and even if i did end up over there they probs would give me an entry level job which i dont think i could cope with at my age. Mahh they dont want me!

It would be easier if the flight was cheaper to NZ then those of use with family we never see can at least visit. Pahhh!
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 6:19 pm
  #4  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 425
dfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond reputedfjordan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by Squid1001 View Post
Thanks for that.

I have also retrained, i thought that would be the golden ticket so to speak. I surpose if there are enough home grown accountants that would also give the impression that the market would be pants, and even if i did end up over there they probs would give me an entry level job which i dont think i could cope with at my age. Mahh they dont want me!

It would be easier if the flight was cheaper to NZ then those of use with family we never see can at least visit. Pahhh!
You haven't asked yourself the simple question as to what can you offer that NZ doesnt have. A PQ accountant for example is not the same as a Q accountant, and are in bountiful supply, just about everywhere. Hons and masters degrees count for very little these days, and as there is such a glut of them, you are going to find it difficult anywhere unless you start at the bottom. Looking back, I suppose you could say it was a pity when you retrained that you didnt choose to be say a carpenter to go to NZ, but even then , once Christchurch has been built, you'd no doubt have problems.
Personally, I think that considering a flight from the UK is around 30 hours, the fare is pretty reasonable.
dfjordan is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 7:21 pm
  #5  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Oh well that escalated quickly.

Hang on whilst i have a word with myself "are you worth anything (yes)? are you really educated (yes)? have you got an entry level job just now (erm nope)?" And i wasnt looking for some form of attack. Hons and Masters count for very little these days, only if you dont have one yourself maybe?

Personally i think the flight is a long one, and yes maybe reasonable.....shall i rush to bow before your glory in the form of your point view. Nope. Take a hike pal. Not interested in that sort of response. If your the classic representation of an immigrant into NZ then its fate that i dont get in. Sorry, but your comments were just nasty and un called for.
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 7:36 pm
  #6  
Somewhere
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Below
Posts: 34,876
BEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond reputeBEVS has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Nothing has escalated at all. dfjordan is merely giving her opinion and point of view. She has actually made a good point .

The aim of the game here is to emigrate to A N Other country. In this case New Zealand.

The skilled migrant category is a points based system as you know. That is to ensure that New Zealand only gains the immigrants that it needs. It is also to ensure that said immigrant can settle well & have a sustainable income. You know this also.

So. What is it you are asking help with please?

At this moment in time the best applications are the ones with a job offered attached.

Which occupation are you looking at please?

Happy to spend some time to help unravel .
BEVS is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 7:54 pm
  #7  
It is what it is Member
 
simonsi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,795
simonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by Squid1001 View Post
So then my next question, why does it seem like they just dont want to let me in
dfjordan was answering your question - which boils down to why does everything you have quoted translate into 105-125pts which in all likelyhood isn't enough to get you picked for Skilled Migrant without a job offer?

The answer to that question may not be nice and fluffy but it will probably be something you can work with. Believe me when I say there will be enough knocks and pushback in the process that this is far too early to start getting upset when someone gives you accurate and well-meaning advice.

There was a prog on NZ TV only last night about how hard it is for NZ graduates with Masters and degrees to get jobs, how they are having to start on entry-level positions that have zero degree requirements (and pay commensurate with that). That isn't made up, need to understand the NZ job market.
simonsi is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 8:12 pm
  #8  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

I beg to differ. That was an insulting response and i was offended.

I asked the original questions first, Hazelnut kindly answered. I responded, in a non offensive way. And then i get the "opinion" of another even though my post had been answered in a constructive way.

I didnt ask for a critique on my qualifications as such, my question was essentially "even though i have some good qualifications its unlikely that i would be successful".

I didnt retrain specifically to move to NZ. This was an opening post about how it had been in my mind for years, and even though i have changed my career and gained experience in a role which is on the list, its will still be unsuccessful.

I wasnt suggesting the system was was unfair. I wasnt suggesting that i was better than anyone else and therefore i should be treated in a different way to anyother.

I have actually moved countries several times, around the world. Started from the bottom every time and worked my way up. I know what i am talking about when i say that i am likely too old to do that again.

I can see that the best applicants have jobs attached. I do get this. I would say that then its exceptionally difficult for someone to apply without a job not matter how its looked at. Without a job, people have not option other than to accept any job available. So the effort of getting in must be balanced with sufficient funds to take a hit. With a job offer, individuals have a salary, and are less likely to have to take a job to make ends meet.

I do believe everything happens for a reason. My heart was set on moving, and its fluctuated between yes and no for years. But no matter what i do to improve myself (for my own gains) its still unlikely to happen.

My occupation is Management Accountant, and my orgainl question asked about that "qualified by experience" being applicable with a job offer, but thats been answered.

I am not normally snippy, but i do object to people suggesting that my academic achievements are ten a penny. There not to be sniffed at, i like all other people who study work hard.
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 8:39 pm
  #9  
It is what it is Member
 
simonsi's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,795
simonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond reputesimonsi has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by Squid1001 View Post
i do object to people suggesting that my academic achievements are ten a penny. There not to be sniffed at, i like all other people who study work hard.
Object all you like, that is the reality of the NZ job market, it isn't related to your particular qualifications but to graduates with post-grad qualifications in general.

No one is commenting on whether you worked hard for them, simply whether they will benefit you in the NZ job market.
simonsi is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 9:02 pm
  #10  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Oh please! I have said more than once now that i GET it, i get the market, i get the ways things are. If you look at my posts i have also said that i had got it before i even started this post.

I dont know if anyone read the bit where i said i have a sister there. Shes been there for 15+ years. I know fine well that she was doing naff jobs when she arrived. She worked with highly qualified pilots, etc serving tables, it takes years to get back to a suitable position when moving without a job. I am not blind.

What i am hearing here is that, as individuals living in NZ you all feel that its important to ensure that those showing an interest in a potential move are reminded that a) we dont belong there and b) we have to start at the bottom c) qualifications dont mean squat (which i am not disputing - my argument is with the attitude regarding the comment that i do actually hold qualifications) and d) we must not even question?

For crying out loud.

My point is.....its hard to get in.....potential immigrants are better off having a job first.....if not start at the beginning and accept it.

Also to remind everyone i said i have shown an interest. Applied once many years ago, but not tried again.

I was asking the questions because it was on my mind again. The questions have been answered. CLEARLY I NEED A JOB IF I WANT TO MOVE. Are you guys like this with everyone, I get a distinct feeling that my post wasnt read properly and i was jumped on immediately.....

NZ is nice, but it has its problems you dont need to fight me for it, its not like i am going to take it off you!!
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 10:27 pm
  #11  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 51
john_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to beholdjohn_hepburn is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Well this is going well.
john_hepburn is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 10:32 pm
  #12  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by john_hepburn View Post
Well this is going well.
I have asked a mod to take it down. I can't tell if the comments were well meaning or not but I am offended so either way it's not helping. But I shouldn't have bitten.
Squid1001 is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 10:32 pm
  #13  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: bottom of the world
Posts: 4,026
Justcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond reputeJustcol has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

For gods sake get over yourself and wind ya neck in.

If you can't come, you can't come
If they don't want you, that's tuff,

But don't start spinning out at people who are trying to offer advice

Last edited by Justcol; Jan 5th 2016 at 10:41 pm.
Justcol is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 10:34 pm
  #14  
Finally mesh free!
 
Vitalstatistix's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Gulf Harbour, Whangaparaoa
Posts: 6,894
Vitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond reputeVitalstatistix has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by john_hepburn View Post
Well this is going well.
You made me . I needed cheering up, thanks.
Vitalstatistix is offline  
Old Jan 5th 2016, 10:34 pm
  #15  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 20
Squid1001 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: NZ immigration - is it really luck!

Originally Posted by Justcol View Post
For gods sake get over yourself and wind ya neck in.

If you can't come, you can't come
If they don't want you, that's tuff,
Another dig!
Squid1001 is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.