British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   New Zealand (https://britishexpats.com/forum/new-zealand-83/)
-   -   not pregnant but... (https://britishexpats.com/forum/new-zealand-83/not-pregnant-but-443665/)

mazi Apr 20th 2007 3:27 pm

not pregnant but...
 
'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, been missing in action for a while but while I was away I was pondering.

If we were to have a baby, could it have a NZ passport even though not born in NZ? As most of you know, BF is a NZer but clearly, as he is a BF we are not married- does that make a difference? We would also want it to have a British passport, could it? (We live in Italy and if it were born here, how does that affect things?)

Give us a clue!

ezzkazz Apr 20th 2007 3:41 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4672858)
'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, been missing in action for a while but while I was away I was pondering.

If we were to have a baby, could it have a NZ passport even though not born in NZ? As most of you know, BF is a NZer but clearly, as he is a BF we are not married- does that make a difference? We would also want it to have a British passport, could it? (We live in Italy and if it were born here, how does that affect things?)

Give us a clue!

I think it would have dual citizenship but it all depends on what countries you are from as some dont allow it. Just because you are not married doesnt make a difference as he would still be the 'father'.
Dont know anymore than that sorry

mazi Apr 20th 2007 5:44 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by ezzkazz (Post 4672918)
I think it would have dual citizenship but it all depends on what countries you are from as some dont allow it. Just because you are not married doesnt make a difference as he would still be the 'father'.
Dont know anymore than that sorry

I'm British but was born in France. The marriage thing could actually be a problem as when I was born in France (my parents were not married) I was a stateless person for the the first year of my life. The French wouldn't let me be French and the Brits wouldn't let me be Brit; my parents had a proper to-do with the embassies (they got married in the end just to shut them up). I've also read somewhere recently that even in Britain there is some awkwardness about unmarried couples of different nationalities (as BF and I are) and what nationality or citizenship to give the baby, but that may have been to parents neither of whom were British...or something.

Would I need to go to Britain to have a baby in order to have a better chance of it being British (that's to anyone - not just ezzkazz)?

Jack The Lad Apr 20th 2007 5:48 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 
Hey up girl :D

mazi Apr 20th 2007 5:49 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad (Post 4673623)
Hey up girl :D

Up your hey too, lad!

ezzkazz Apr 20th 2007 6:11 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 
I found this, it may give you a bit of an idea

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/p...lexamples.html

Herm Apr 20th 2007 10:06 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4672858)
'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, been missing in action for a while but while I was away I was pondering.

If we were to have a baby, could it have a NZ passport even though not born in NZ? As most of you know, BF is a NZer but clearly, as he is a BF we are not married- does that make a difference? We would also want it to have a British passport, could it? (We live in Italy and if it were born here, how does that affect things?)

Give us a clue!

My OH is a kiwi - had two kids (born in UK) before finally got around to marriage and then simply registered their births with NZ house. Fast forward and they both hold dual citizenship BUT they cannot pass their NZ citizenship onto their children unless they 'formally' apply to become a NZ citizen or they marry a kiwi in which case citizenship will be passed on by the partner.

Don't believe that had we been married at the time it would have made any difference.

Cheers

TeamEmbo Apr 20th 2007 10:46 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4672858)
'Ello, 'ello, 'ello, been missing in action for a while but while I was away I was pondering.

If we were to have a baby, could it have a NZ passport even though not born in NZ? As most of you know, BF is a NZer but clearly, as he is a BF we are not married- does that make a difference? We would also want it to have a British passport, could it? (We live in Italy and if it were born here, how does that affect things?)

Give us a clue!

I thought kids took their father's nationality? OH was born in Singapore but is not entitled to be resident in Singapore or have Singapore passport etc. His parents were married at the time and Dad is British and so OH is British despite being born abroad. This was 30+ years ago though and things change all the time. I know in England the father doesn't get automatic parental responsibility unless married to the mother.

mazi Apr 20th 2007 11:09 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by TeamEmbo (Post 4674812)
I thought kids took their father's nationality?

:eek:

mazi Apr 20th 2007 11:14 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by Herm (Post 4674596)
My OH is a kiwi - had two kids (born in UK) before finally got around to marriage and then simply registered their births with NZ house. Fast forward and they both hold dual citizenship BUT they cannot pass their NZ citizenship onto their children unless they 'formally' apply to become a NZ citizen or they marry a kiwi in which case citizenship will be passed on by the partner.

Don't believe that had we been married at the time it would have made any difference.

Cheers

So did you register the births with NZ House after you'd got married? As we're not necessarily intending to get married at all.

I'm not worried about them passing their NZ and/or British nationality onto their children - they can decide what they want to do about that then. And of course, there may well not be a world by then or it may be one state or the countries may have different names or any number of doomy gloomy outcomes.

Is it possible to hold three passports?

mazi Apr 20th 2007 11:15 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by ezzkazz (Post 4673706)
I found this, it may give you a bit of an idea

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/p...lexamples.html

Thank you - I'll check this out tomorrow when the Mojitos have worn off.

Herm Apr 21st 2007 1:35 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4674956)
So did you register the births with NZ House after you'd got married? As we're not necessarily intending to get married at all.

I'm not worried about them passing their NZ and/or British nationality onto their children - they can decide what they want to do about that then. And of course, there may well not be a world by then or it may be one state or the countries may have different names or any number of doomy gloomy outcomes.

Is it possible to hold three passports?


No - We registered them before we got married.

JAJ Apr 21st 2007 3:47 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by TeamEmbo (Post 4674812)
I thought kids took their father's nationality?

Not always.

JAJ Apr 21st 2007 3:50 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4672858)
If we were to have a baby, could it have a NZ passport even though not born in NZ? As most of you know, BF is a NZer but clearly, as he is a BF we are not married- does that make a difference?

Provided bf is born or naturalised in NZ, then baby would be NZ by descent. As someone else has noted you could, once living in NZ, apply for the child to be "granted" NZ citizenship which protects the rights of the next generation.



We would also want it to have a British passport, could it? (We live in Italy and if it were born here, how does that affect things?)
As long as you are a British citizen born or naturalised in the United Kingdom (or Channel Islands / Isle of Man) then the child will be British (by descent) automatically.

You would need to get a British style consular birth certificate and British passport from the British Embassy.

If neither of you are Italian, then child won't automatically be Italian just by being born in Italy.

mazi Apr 21st 2007 9:31 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 4675768)
Provided bf is born or naturalised in NZ, then baby would be NZ by descent. As someone else has noted you could, once living in NZ, apply for the child to be "granted" NZ citizenship which protects the rights of the next generation.




As long as you are a British citizen born or naturalised in the United Kingdom (or Channel Islands / Isle of Man) then the child will be British (by descent) automatically.

You would need to get a British style consular birth certificate and British passport from the British Embassy.

If neither of you are Italian, then child won't automatically be Italian just by being born in Italy.

Thank you JAJ, I was rather hoping for a reply from you. But one thing, I won't be living in NZ - been there, done that and my T shirt is very dirty. The NZ passport thing is purely to keep Kiwi BF happy, avoid the 9 hour wait at passport control when we visit BF's family (I'll still have to wait for 9 hours of course but at least the baby could go through with its dad) and to give poor beggar a bolt hole if it all goes T**s up here in Europe.

So, am I naturalised with my British passport then? Incidentally, do you know if I can also apply for a French passport? Not sure why I want one but it sounds quite cool, doesn't it?

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 9:47 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by Herm (Post 4674596)
they cannot pass their NZ citizenship onto their children unless they 'formally' apply to become a NZ citizen or they marry a kiwi in which case citizenship will be passed on by the partner.

OR unless they physically have their children in NZ. Mine are in the same boat.

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 9:54 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4674956)
So did you register the births with NZ House after you'd got married? As we're not necessarily intending to get married at all.

I'm not worried about them passing their NZ and/or British nationality onto their children - they can decide what they want to do about that then. And of course, there may well not be a world by then or it may be one state or the countries may have different names or any number of doomy gloomy outcomes.

Is it possible to hold three passports?

Memory makes me believe that said child will get NZ citizenship if your OH is an NZ born kiwi, no matter where the child is born (well out of the places you have listed at least and under current rules). We got our children (UK born) this after they were registered in the UK. No probs. But it is citizen by descent as opposed to citizen by birth, which their UK citizenship is. (This is the difference in terms of passing citizenship down to children)

Then I think the same should be true about their UK citizenship, if you are British. HOWEVER the fact that you were born outside the UK may affect this IF your child is also born outside the UK (in Italy for instance). In fact I think this could be the case, as my sister was also stateless as a baby, having been born in Africa to two British parents, although one of them (my Dad - the important one as someone has also mentioned, although I'm not sure if this is still the case) was born outside the UK so my sister was NOT entitled to be a British citizen by birth. So my parents also had the negotiations with the British Embassy. Anyhow, I'd thus check this aspect. The easy way round it, if it looks at all uncertain, is to have your child born in the UK, as you have mentioned. BUT DO NOT TAKE ANY TIMING RISKS WITH THIS. You should make sure you are here from about half way through - just in case!

Of course in reality, I am not sure that UK citizenship actually offers anything different to Italian citizenship, does it? EU passport and work rights/travel within the EU. Although I suppose possibly for the likes of moving to the USA etc.

Don't worry about it too much though. :) If it looks tricky, at least you have the option to have your child born in the UK. That is after you actually conceive this child Mazi!! :rofl: ;)

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 10:07 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4676342)
Thank you JAJ, I was rather hoping for a reply from you. But one thing, I won't be living in NZ - been there, done that and my T shirt is very dirty. The NZ passport thing is purely to keep Kiwi BF happy, avoid the 9 hour wait at passport control when we visit BF's family (I'll still have to wait for 9 hours of course but at least the baby could go through with its dad) and to give poor beggar a bolt hole if it all goes T**s up here in Europe.

So, am I naturalised with my British passport then? Incidentally, do you know if I can also apply for a French passport? Not sure why I want one but it sounds quite cool, doesn't it?

Mazi,

I suspect that you are British by descent and NOT by naturalisation since you were born outside the UK. :huh:

This is the case with my sister whom was in a similar position to you at birth. And we have had discussions with her about how she needs to have her children born in the UK, ideally, in terms of citizenship 'protection'.

You may be able however to 'upgrade' your British citizenship (just in the same way that others have posted about your future baby's kiwi citizenship) although the fact that you are not currently living in the UK may void this option.

Have a look at your birth certificate and phone whoever in the authorities will be in the know on this stuff. It will be a straightforward answer. ;)

mazi Apr 21st 2007 10:12 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by uk+kiwi (Post 4676451)
Mazi,

I suspect that you are British by descent and NOT by naturalisation since you were born outside the UK. :huh:

This is the case with my sister whom was in a similar position to you at birth. And we have had discussions with her about how she needs to have her children born in the UK, ideally, in terms of citizenship 'protection'.

You may be able however to 'upgrade' your British citizenship (just in the same way that others have posted about your future baby's kiwi citizenship) although the fact that you are not currently living in the UK may void this option.

Have a look at your birth certificate and phone whoever in the authorities will be in the know on this stuff. It will be a straightforward answer. ;)

Shine a light, this is confusing. I have two birth certificates, one French (at birth) and the other British (dated about a year later).

Of course, it's immaterial right now as I'm not pregnant but you have to think about these things, don't you?

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 10:45 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4676459)
Shine a light, this is confusing. I have two birth certificates, one French (at birth) and the other British (dated about a year later).

Of course, it's immaterial right now as I'm not pregnant but you have to think about these things, don't you?

Sorry - was I confusing? I suppose 'it' is.

NZ citizenship, no problem. But unless you have your child born in NZ (which I know you won't) it will be citizenship 'by descent'. ie this citizenship stops with your children and cannot be passed onto your grandchildren unless they are born in NZ or your child 'upgrades' their kiwi citizenship (by living in NZ)that your BF will give them.

UK citizenship slightly more problematic, because of the factors surrounding your own birth place and stateless position. It is possible, so don't panic, BUT you may need to have your child born in the UK. (This is the bit needing clarification). I think it all depends on what type of UK citizenship you have - by descent or by birth/naturalisation. I think because of what you said earlier about being stateless AND born outside the UK, that you have the former in which case I suspect your child will not get UK citizenship without being born in the UK (because you yourself are now effectively in the same position as your child would be under the kiwi citizenship scenario discussed above - understand?) If however you have the latter, they will get it wherever they are born.

I hope this is clearer. Should also add that I am ONLY writing from my own experience and am not qualified in this area! You need to get expert advice if it is at all important to you, which it obviously is, and quite rightly so. :)

The short answer is NZ no probs, UK needs checking as child may have to be born in UK to get UK citizenship, because you may be unable to pass on your British citizenship.

mazi Apr 21st 2007 11:39 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by uk+kiwi (Post 4676557)
Sorry - was I confusing? I suppose 'it' is.

NZ citizenship, no problem. But unless you have your child born in NZ (which I know you won't) it will be citizenship 'by descent'. ie this citizenship stops with your children and cannot be passed onto your grandchildren unless they are born in NZ or your child 'upgrades' their kiwi citizenship (by living in NZ)that your BF will give them.

UK citizenship slightly more problematic, because of the factors surrounding your own birth place and stateless position. It is possible, so don't panic, BUT you may need to have your child born in the UK. (This is the bit needing clarification). I think it all depends on what type of UK citizenship you have - by descent or by birth/naturalisation. I think because of what you said earlier about being stateless AND born outside the UK, that you have the former in which case I suspect your child will not get UK citizenship without being born in the UK (because you yourself are now effectively in the same position as your child would be under the kiwi citizenship scenario discussed above - understand?) If however you have the latter, they will get it wherever they are born.

I hope this is clearer. Should also add that I am ONLY writing from my own experience and am not qualified in this area! You need to get expert advice if it is at all important to you, which it obviously is, and quite rightly so. :)

The short answer is NZ no probs, UK needs checking as child may have to be born in UK to get UK citizenship, because you may be unable to pass on your British citizenship.

Thank you!

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 11:50 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4676722)
Thank you!

You're welcome. :)

Phew - I was expecting a 'whhhaaaaatttt :confused:' type response as I ended up waflling on and on :rofl:

mazi Apr 21st 2007 6:27 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by uk+kiwi (Post 4676757)
You're welcome. :)

Phew - I was expecting a 'whhhaaaaatttt :confused:' type response as I ended up waflling on and on :rofl:

whhhaaaaatttt:confused:

uk+kiwi Apr 21st 2007 6:31 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4677935)
whhhaaaaatttt:confused:


:rofl: :)

Roywyn May 1st 2007 12:35 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 
Hey Mazi, I don't know if this is going to be much help seeing as its been a few weeks since anyone has posted but seeing as no one has said anything about it I thought I would.

I am 21 and currently hold 3 passports. I was born in the USA and so I automatically got an American passport, I have a New Zealand passport from my Father who was born in New Zealand and I have a British passport (British citizenship by descent) from my Mother who was born in England. All 3 were my birth rights.

I have looked into passing my British citizenship to my 'future children' and I found out this: Where the parent is a British citizen by descent additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, normally the parent is expected to have lived in the UK for three years and apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth.

I am not sure about the laws in Italy but even though neither you or your BF are Italian you might still be able to get your child an Italian passport, however you would have to find this out.

mazi May 4th 2007 11:33 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by Roywyn (Post 4720485)
Hey Mazi, I don't know if this is going to be much help seeing as its been a few weeks since anyone has posted but seeing as no one has said anything about it I thought I would.

I am 21 and currently hold 3 passports. I was born in the USA and so I automatically got an American passport, I have a New Zealand passport from my Father who was born in New Zealand and I have a British passport (British citizenship by descent) from my Mother who was born in England. All 3 were my birth rights.

I have looked into passing my British citizenship to my 'future children' and I found out this: Where the parent is a British citizen by descent additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, normally the parent is expected to have lived in the UK for three years and apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth.

I am not sure about the laws in Italy but even though neither you or your BF are Italian you might still be able to get your child an Italian passport, however you would have to find this out.

Thank you! I've been waiting for a 3 passport response.

I'm British by descent, having been born in France - and lived in Britain for 27 years - do you think that counts towards my 3 years, or do the three years you mentioned have to be immediately prior to a child's birth?

karonious May 4th 2007 11:47 am

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4736580)
Thank you! I've been waiting for a 3 passport response.

I'm British by descent, having been born in France - and lived in Britain for 27 years - do you think that counts towards my 3 years, or do the three years you mentioned have to be immediately prior to a child's birth?

All things come to pass my love......
now: shouldn't you be procreating rather than procrastinating??

mazi May 4th 2007 12:13 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by karonious (Post 4736615)
All things come to pass my love......
now: shouldn't you be procreating rather than procrastinating??

:p

Boyfriend is at work

karonious May 4th 2007 12:14 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4736710)
:p

Boyfriend is at work


Bugger.........do have a spare? :eek:

mazi May 4th 2007 12:24 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by karonious (Post 4736713)
Bugger.........do have a spare? :eek:

I could go and grab an Italian off the street - they're always up for it, so I'm told

karonious May 4th 2007 12:31 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4736740)
I could go and grab an Italian off the street - they're always up for it, so I'm told

:)
A group of women, on a hen night in a bar, discussing men......one maintains that Italians are the best lovers, another believes that native Americans do it best........ a man, overhearing their conversation, offers to buy them a drink....'oh, no' they say, 'we can't take a drink from a man we don't know'.........'don't worry' he says, 'my name is Tonto Michelangelo' ........
:thumbup:

mazi May 4th 2007 12:34 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by karonious (Post 4736763)
:)
A group of women, on a hen night in a bar, discussing men......one maintains that Italians are the best lovers, another believes that native Americans do it best........ a man, overhearing their conversation, offers to buy them a drink....'oh, no' they say, 'we can't take a drink from a man we don't know'.........'don't worry' he says, 'my name is Tonto Michelangelo' ........
:thumbup:

:rofl: Funny

Roywyn May 5th 2007 9:57 pm

Re: not pregnant but...
 

Originally Posted by mazi (Post 4736580)
I'm British by descent, having been born in France - and lived in Britain for 27 years - do you think that counts towards my 3 years, or do the three years you mentioned have to be immediately prior to a child's birth?

I'm not 100% sure about this but from what I gather it is just 3 years at anytime before your child is 1 year old so that you can apply for the child to be registered as a British citizen within 12 months of the birth.

So for you I think that all you'd have to do is register your baby within 12 months of the birth.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:56 pm.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.