NHS pensions

Closed Thread Subscribe

Thread Tools

Jun 20th 2018, 9:55 pm

Curlu

Just Joined

Thread Starter

Joined: Jul 2012

Posts: 18

Curlu is an unknown quantity at this point

NHS pensions

I realise that pensions are a complex issue but is anyone able to comment on whether UK NHS pensions are taxable in both the UK and NZ? Not seeking to transfer as it's not allowed with NHS but this would be when it's payable at retirement.

thanks
pamela

Jun 21st 2018, 10:28 am

escapedtonz

BE Forum Addict

Joined: Jun 2012

Location: Narangba QLD

Posts: 1,513

escapedtonz has a reputation beyond repute

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlu

As far as I'm aware from the date of entry in to NZ you do not have to declare any overseas income assuming it is earned from a country that has a double taxation rule with NZ.
From the 4 year anniversary, all income, no matter where it is earned must be declared to NZ IRD and income tax paid accordingly even though you'd also be taxed on that income in the UK.

It is a very complex topic and I'd urge you to get professional advice as there are things you can do to reduce your tax exposure both in the UK and NZ. Think it also matters what you are classed as in each country - the terms domiciled / non-domiciled and resident / non resident for tax purposes spring to mind.

You need to speak to Ch4me on here.

Jun 21st 2018, 11:01 am

uk_grenada

I still dont believe it..

Joined: Oct 2013

Location: 12 degrees north

Posts: 2,777

uk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute

Re: NHS pensions

Your NHS pension is taxable, like normal income, it is of course index linked and unlike the state pension will continue to grow when outside the eu.

Take professional advice, but the info is here. https://assets.publishing.service.go...April_2018.pdf

Jun 21st 2018, 11:18 am

mikelincs

Concierge

Joined: May 2006

Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton

Posts: 27,205

mikelincs has a reputation beyond repute

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlu

I believe you should be able to get your NHS pension paid untaxed in the UK after you have moved, it's not a crown pension so does NOT have to be taxed in the UK.

Jun 21st 2018, 11:21 am

uk_grenada

I still dont believe it..

Joined: Oct 2013

Location: 12 degrees north

Posts: 2,777

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelincs

I believe you should be able to get your NHS pension paid untaxed in the UK after you have moved, it's not a crown pension so does NOT have to be taxed in the UK.

That depends on what the dual taxation agreement actually says you need to look it up on the table

Jun 21st 2018, 9:02 pm

chc4me

BE Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2011

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 455

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlu

This is a straightforward question with a simple answer - No, the pension income is not taxed in both countries, only in the country you are living in (i.e NZ). There are other things to consider that may be of benefit to you, such as the 4 year tax free exemption for Transitional Residents. Just before it becomes payable, you should seek tax advice to ensure you follow the correct procedure and complete the paperwork to notify NHS that you area NZ tax payer.
Happy days!

Jun 22nd 2018, 6:44 am

mikelincs

Concierge

Joined: May 2006

Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton

Posts: 27,205

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by chc4me

Correct in this case BUT, Crown Pensions, i.e Police and Civil Service are, by law, taxed in the UK and this cannot be changed without a change in the law.

Jun 22nd 2018, 8:40 am

chc4me

BE Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2011

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 455

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelincs

Correct in this case BUT, Crown Pensions, i.e Police and Civil Service are, by law, taxed in the UK and this cannot be changed without a change in the law.

Mikelincs, I don't know where you got your information from but your statement is wrong. If a person is tax resident in a different country (in the original question its New Zealand) then the person is subject to the laws in that country. NZ has "taxing rights" over worldwide income and this includes Police pensions in payment, Civil Service Pensions in payment and so on. Please refer to the Double Taxation agreement between the two countries or seek suitable tax advice to avoid any large unexpected tax bills.

Jun 22nd 2018, 9:00 am

uk_grenada

I still dont believe it..

Joined: Oct 2013

Location: 12 degrees north

Posts: 2,777

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by chc4me

You are deluded, the default position is that income in country A is taxable in country A. There is no such thing as a countries ‘right’ to tax worldwide income, though they may wish to try. If you are living in country B and subject to their laws, they may choose to tax you on foreign income you declare or they hear about [part of these treaties is info sharing on your foreign income], ergo double taxation.

The treaties try to create a more equitable situation but eash one is different. The uk givt mandates that regardless of treaties, it taxes its direct employees pensions in the uk, end of. If NZ taxes foreign income and has no local exemption for the uk you will be taxed twice.

Jun 22nd 2018, 9:13 am

#10

chc4me

BE Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2011

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 455

Re: NHS pensions

UK_grenada - Thanks for the feedback, are you living in NZ and have knowledge of local tax rules? You might like to refer to the NZ IRD website which uses the term "Taxing rights". This site: How DTAs affect your overseas pension K-Z (New Zealand tax residents with overseas interests) also clearly indicates that Government Service pensions are taxable in NZ, and not in both countries. Of course I didn't just get my information from the IRD website or via google, I actually specialise in UK pensions to NZ, although I admit I am not an Accountant. Tax is complex, seek advice.

Last edited by chc4me; Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:16 am.

Jun 22nd 2018, 9:18 am

#11

chc4me

BE Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2011

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 455

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by uk_grenada

There is no such thing as a countries ‘right’ to tax worldwide income, though they may wish to try.

Straight from the NZ IRD website: If you're a resident of New Zealand for tax purposes you'll pay tax in New Zealand on all your worldwide income. This is income you get from New Zealand as well as from all other countries. Paying tax in New Zealand (Coming to New Zealand)

Jun 22nd 2018, 9:45 am

#12

uk_grenada

I still dont believe it..

Joined: Oct 2013

Location: 12 degrees north

Posts: 2,777

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by chc4me

exactly, there is no right, just a governments edict.

You will of ciurse realise that to understand your true tax situation you must understand the laws in the country originating the income and where you reside, plus any treaties between those 2 specific countries.

The nhs is not involved in this issue but if you are a core uk retired civil servant you will currently be taxed twice if you choose to live in NZ according to the info on gov.uk regarding the nz treaty. This is the uk’s fault as they decided years ago to pass legislation saying such pensions would always be subject to uk taxation, unless NZ has a local dispensation apart from the treaty?

Jun 22nd 2018, 10:23 am

#13

chc4me

BE Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2011

Location: New Zealand

Posts: 455

Re: NHS pensions

Quote:

Originally Posted by uk_grenada

UK_Grenada, I'm pretty sure that a Governments edict is called "a law". This issue is very clear, NZ taxes worldwide income including pension income from Crown services. This is covered under the DTA between NZ and the UK, refer to Article 19 and 20 which specifically covers these points. For those reading this thread, please do your own research and seek suitable tax advice. Must be time for one of these....