New Zealand PR permit holder reports back (Don Pleasance)
Mar 25th 2003, 12:44 am
#1
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New Zealand PR permit holder reports back (Don Pleasance)
We're back from 3 weeks in NZ. We flew into Auckland and drove around the top half of North Island incl Northland. Overall, a very positive trip to validate visas, have a holiday and do some on-the-ground research into where to live & work before we go out 'for good' later in the year. A few bullet points of our feelings, good and bad:
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
Mar 25th 2003, 12:54 am
#2
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 91
Hi Don
I'm glad you enjoyed your trip. You'll have to start saying "fush and chups" soon
When you want to know more about Wellington.......motels to stay in, best ways to find employment, etc sing out, & I'm happy to help.
All the best
I'm glad you enjoyed your trip. You'll have to start saying "fush and chups" soon
When you want to know more about Wellington.......motels to stay in, best ways to find employment, etc sing out, & I'm happy to help.
All the best
Mar 25th 2003, 3:38 pm
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I returned from a recce 2 weeks ago and agree with Don though we went to South Island and just Auckland (which was okay and friends who'd settled were very happpy with). Went to Christchurch (nice) and Nelson (wonderful).
Whilst the Uk pounds buys alot on holiday the salary's aren't in ratio. If we couldn't buy outright we'd be looking elsewhere. However could live comfortably as mortgage was paid. Household bills are small in comparison. Just got my Rates bill - £1700 a year.
Whilst the Uk pounds buys alot on holiday the salary's aren't in ratio. If we couldn't buy outright we'd be looking elsewhere. However could live comfortably as mortgage was paid. Household bills are small in comparison. Just got my Rates bill - £1700 a year.
Last edited by Roger; Mar 26th 2003 at 9:17 am.
Mar 29th 2003, 3:46 am
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A couple more memories spring to mind. We saw lots of magnificent falcons every day - great big ones, about European eagle sized. They were feeding on the abundant possum roadkill so usually easy to see from the car close up. (You also see a lot of deer being farmed for venison ('cervena'), in Northland.)
Supermarkets - I was quite relieved to see they are very adequate compared to some of the horror stories from our Aus mates on the forum. Not as good as Sainsbury/ Tesco in the prepared food/ frozen food areas but significantly better in fresh meat & fruit & veg - and a lot cheaper too in general than UK. Personally very happy to see the full range of Patak's curry pastes etc in both Pak & Save and Big Fresh (?).
Cheers - Don
Supermarkets - I was quite relieved to see they are very adequate compared to some of the horror stories from our Aus mates on the forum. Not as good as Sainsbury/ Tesco in the prepared food/ frozen food areas but significantly better in fresh meat & fruit & veg - and a lot cheaper too in general than UK. Personally very happy to see the full range of Patak's curry pastes etc in both Pak & Save and Big Fresh (?).
Cheers - Don
Mar 29th 2003, 10:12 am
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Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Whakatane, New Zealand
Posts: 30
Re: New Zealand PR permit holder reports back (Don Pleasance)
Thanks Don for the interesting description of your trip. Its good to hear from someone recently back. I was over there 5+ years ago.
Thanks again for sparing the time to write an informative piece.
Thanks again for sparing the time to write an informative piece.
Mar 29th 2003, 2:07 pm
#6
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Posts: 327
thanks so much Don. long time since we had anything as encouraging re. nz on here!! good timing for us too as we leave on Friday for our own trip and your report has certainly helped to excite us even further - if that's possible!! we plan to visit all three major cities so we will try to report back to you about our impression of christchurch and wellington.
so far we think we will prefer christchurch but we are trying to go with an open mind and just see which feels right.
can i just ask about tauranga though!! we have best friends who are thinking of maybe immigrating too and have heard quite a lot good about tauranga and i was thinking maybe we should look at it too when we are over. what was there about it that did not appeal to you?
great to get the reassurances on the driving and the weather as well!!
i really can't wait to go now!!
thanks again
so far we think we will prefer christchurch but we are trying to go with an open mind and just see which feels right.
can i just ask about tauranga though!! we have best friends who are thinking of maybe immigrating too and have heard quite a lot good about tauranga and i was thinking maybe we should look at it too when we are over. what was there about it that did not appeal to you?
great to get the reassurances on the driving and the weather as well!!
i really can't wait to go now!!
thanks again
Mar 29th 2003, 9:16 pm
#7
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Cheshire, England
Posts: 743
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
A couple more memories spring to mind. We saw lots of magnificent falcons every day - great big ones, about European eagle sized. They were feeding on the abundant possum roadkill so usually easy to see from the car close up. (You also see a lot of deer being farmed for venison ('cervena'), in Northland.)
Supermarkets - I was quite relieved to see they are very adequate compared to some of the horror stories from our Aus mates on the forum. Not as good as Sainsbury/ Tesco in the prepared food/ frozen food areas but significantly better in fresh meat & fruit & veg - and a lot cheaper too in general than UK. Personally very happy to see the full range of Patak's curry pastes etc in both Pak & Save and Big Fresh (?).
Cheers - Don
A couple more memories spring to mind. We saw lots of magnificent falcons every day - great big ones, about European eagle sized. They were feeding on the abundant possum roadkill so usually easy to see from the car close up. (You also see a lot of deer being farmed for venison ('cervena'), in Northland.)
Supermarkets - I was quite relieved to see they are very adequate compared to some of the horror stories from our Aus mates on the forum. Not as good as Sainsbury/ Tesco in the prepared food/ frozen food areas but significantly better in fresh meat & fruit & veg - and a lot cheaper too in general than UK. Personally very happy to see the full range of Patak's curry pastes etc in both Pak & Save and Big Fresh (?).
Cheers - Don
Don,
Your point about Patak's Curry Paste is very important when you are married to a man adicted to curry. The tinned sauces are just not up to anything in comparison. I hope you can get then in OZ.
Mar 30th 2003, 3:48 am
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Tauranga has heaps going for it in a positive sense:
- good location, one of NZ's best places for warm dry climate and v easy to get to Auckland, Hamilton, Rotarua/ Taupo, Coromandel Peninsula and of course on the Bay of Plenty with its fantastic beaches, warmer waters and great surf.
- house prices affordable, esp vs AKL
- looks a very up and coming place, good compact centre with all the shops without being a big city
- predicted to grow second fastest in NZ after AKL for the next 20 years (economy, house prices, population)
Downside for us is not very substantial, we just didn't 'click' with it, maybe we have slightly false expectations? We need a slightly bigger city really for our job skills. If CCH and Wellington don't turn out to be right (and we're looking all over S Island too) then I'd definitely reconsider Tauranga.
Cheers - Don
- good location, one of NZ's best places for warm dry climate and v easy to get to Auckland, Hamilton, Rotarua/ Taupo, Coromandel Peninsula and of course on the Bay of Plenty with its fantastic beaches, warmer waters and great surf.
- house prices affordable, esp vs AKL
- looks a very up and coming place, good compact centre with all the shops without being a big city
- predicted to grow second fastest in NZ after AKL for the next 20 years (economy, house prices, population)
Downside for us is not very substantial, we just didn't 'click' with it, maybe we have slightly false expectations? We need a slightly bigger city really for our job skills. If CCH and Wellington don't turn out to be right (and we're looking all over S Island too) then I'd definitely reconsider Tauranga.
Cheers - Don
Originally posted by jajpe
thanks so much Don. long time since we had anything as encouraging re. nz on here!! good timing for us too as we leave on Friday for our own trip and your report has certainly helped to excite us even further - if that's possible!! we plan to visit all three major cities so we will try to report back to you about our impression of christchurch and wellington.
so far we think we will prefer christchurch but we are trying to go with an open mind and just see which feels right.
can i just ask about tauranga though!! we have best friends who are thinking of maybe immigrating too and have heard quite a lot good about tauranga and i was thinking maybe we should look at it too when we are over. what was there about it that did not appeal to you?
great to get the reassurances on the driving and the weather as well!!
i really can't wait to go now!!
thanks again
thanks so much Don. long time since we had anything as encouraging re. nz on here!! good timing for us too as we leave on Friday for our own trip and your report has certainly helped to excite us even further - if that's possible!! we plan to visit all three major cities so we will try to report back to you about our impression of christchurch and wellington.
so far we think we will prefer christchurch but we are trying to go with an open mind and just see which feels right.
can i just ask about tauranga though!! we have best friends who are thinking of maybe immigrating too and have heard quite a lot good about tauranga and i was thinking maybe we should look at it too when we are over. what was there about it that did not appeal to you?
great to get the reassurances on the driving and the weather as well!!
i really can't wait to go now!!
thanks again
Apr 3rd 2003, 6:29 pm
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Here's another surprise for me: there weren't really any mosquitos or other biting insects to speak of apart from a couple of sand flies on the beach once. Is that normal for end-summer in NZ?
Cheers - Don
Cheers - Don
Apr 4th 2003, 12:54 am
#10
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Location: Herts
Posts: 18
Hi Don
Seems like you had a worhwhile trip. I agree with you that Auckland is over rated. I must admit i prefer Wellington area and lots of the east coast where you seem to get a lot more for your money when buying property. NZ is going through a property boom at present, especially in Auckland which is experinceing high property gains at the moment. On the whole the NZ economy seems to be pretty strong, along with the dollar exchange rate and house prices on the increase, not the best time for us to be emmigrating. On saying that though the quality of life factor out ways the negative factors and judging by your trip you experinced that.
I am off myself again on Tuesday (got my mask for singapore stopover) to look at a few business ventures, so anything you missed on your trip and need to know, if i am in the area i would look it up for you. Will be travelling from Wellington-Palmerston North-Napier then to Auckland to pop into my immigration agent-back to Wellington to see family.
Regards
Dean
Seems like you had a worhwhile trip. I agree with you that Auckland is over rated. I must admit i prefer Wellington area and lots of the east coast where you seem to get a lot more for your money when buying property. NZ is going through a property boom at present, especially in Auckland which is experinceing high property gains at the moment. On the whole the NZ economy seems to be pretty strong, along with the dollar exchange rate and house prices on the increase, not the best time for us to be emmigrating. On saying that though the quality of life factor out ways the negative factors and judging by your trip you experinced that.
I am off myself again on Tuesday (got my mask for singapore stopover) to look at a few business ventures, so anything you missed on your trip and need to know, if i am in the area i would look it up for you. Will be travelling from Wellington-Palmerston North-Napier then to Auckland to pop into my immigration agent-back to Wellington to see family.
Regards
Dean
Apr 4th 2003, 1:45 am
#11
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4
Hi - just read your posts - I'm a total newbie on this site - so far nobody has mentioned Taranaki
I know its small, slightly isolated and because of this we have a wonderful laid back life style with fantastic coastlines, the most wonderful mountain and countryside and parks to die for...............check us out guys - Taranaki and New Plymouth have their own sites. 
I know its small, slightly isolated and because of this we have a wonderful laid back life style with fantastic coastlines, the most wonderful mountain and countryside and parks to die for...............check us out guys - Taranaki and New Plymouth have their own sites.
Apr 1st 2004, 6:39 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Zealand PR permit holder reports back (Don Pleasance)
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
We're back from 3 weeks in NZ. We flew into Auckland and drove around the top half of North Island incl Northland. Overall, a very positive trip to validate visas, have a holiday and do some on-the-ground research into where to live & work before we go out 'for good' later in the year. A few bullet points of our feelings, good and bad:
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
We're back from 3 weeks in NZ. We flew into Auckland and drove around the top half of North Island incl Northland. Overall, a very positive trip to validate visas, have a holiday and do some on-the-ground research into where to live & work before we go out 'for good' later in the year. A few bullet points of our feelings, good and bad:
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
Apr 1st 2004, 6:46 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Zealand PR permit holder reports back (Don Pleasance)
Well Don, I think you're absolutely right about remuneration in NZ and if you can't see beyond that you're every bit as brain dead as the average Brit that I've met in my time in your totally f****d up little country which is ripe and ready for the next act of retribution by Al Quaeda. Go home and stay home if you don't like it because the last thing we want is a bunch of whining Poms.
T
T
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
We're back from 3 weeks in NZ. We flew into Auckland and drove around the top half of North Island incl Northland. Overall, a very positive trip to validate visas, have a holiday and do some on-the-ground research into where to live & work before we go out 'for good' later in the year. A few bullet points of our feelings, good and bad:
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
We're back from 3 weeks in NZ. We flew into Auckland and drove around the top half of North Island incl Northland. Overall, a very positive trip to validate visas, have a holiday and do some on-the-ground research into where to live & work before we go out 'for good' later in the year. A few bullet points of our feelings, good and bad:
Climate was great, much warmer (newspapers said typically 22-25 degrees C but it felt hotter) and more pleasant than UK in the late summer. Sea off Bay of Plenty was really warm and great for swimming. Sunbathing and beaches on east coast of Coromandel Peninsula - eg Hahei - fantastic; Hot Water Beach - what an experience, maybe I should be a professional spa designer. We had torrential rain too but it was soon over and not 'drizzle'-type rain.
NZ'ers extremely friendly and welcoming, genuinely pleased we had chosen to emigrate to NZ. We were invited to dinner to a couple of homes. (But I also got short-changed twice in small shops, I think deliberately. I challenged them both times (good old 'Hawk-eyes' Pleasance wins again!) and got it corrected but I think some 'dumb' tourists are targeted for minor theft.)
Motels - quite good value for money (except AKL) - typically NZD100-120, you usually get enough beds for a family of four, a small kitchen area (fridge, two cooker rings, microwave, toaster, kettle, complimentary tea and coffee) - negative being you always have to check out by 10am. Some were brand new and in wonderful locations. Usually got SKY TV plus at least the main 3 terrestrial channels. Easy to cut the cost of eating out by preparing meals in the room.
Driving - despite several NZ'ers warning me about aggressive NZ driving, anyone used to UK driving will not get road rage, will gently hum songs to themselves and the family, will find driving a pleasant relaxed experience. Speed limit of 100km/h (max) makes for an easy day too. The 'odd' priority rule (ie give way to opposing driver turning right when you are turning left off a main road) isn't really a big issue as you are necessarily going dead slow to turn anyway and the opposing drivers also seem to half expect you're a dozy tourist who doesn't know the rule (rumoured to disappear this year) so won't come crashing into the side of your vehicle. We saw a lot of good safe driving and mutual courtesy. Roads were pretty good too.
Auckland - we were not very impressed - but I should preface this by saying we don't like big cities anyway. A big sprawl. If you can imagine: compact downtown and a huge surrounding spread-out city sprawl all around. Fine for parks, shops and amenities and well organised, very clean and tidy. Big advantage over many other cities being the waterfront location etc but you can get equivalent or better, more scenic surroundings almost anywhere else in NZ. We hated: high prices, especially for homes but also everything else (supermarket, eating out, motel etc). The high cost of buying a home and the poor value you get for your money (vs elsewhere in NZ) would alone be enough to deter us from settling in Auckland city proper. A small 3 bedroom wooden bungalow, average condition, 500 sq metres of garden, 15-20 minutes from downtown would cost about NZD300K+. A similar location brick-built 3 bedroom better quality house with 1000 sq metre garden would be closer to NZD800K+. Average Auckland house price is currently 7-8 times average AKL gross earnings, looks inflated. Traffic: absolutely terrible in rush hour, otherwise acceptable. If I had to choose Auckland for job reasons, I'd live some way outside, eg Orewa area, and take the awful traffic snarl commute - value for money seemed to be a fair bit better about half an hour's drive away from downtown.
Another worry for me would be typical pay levels. This trip really brought it home. Anyone going to live in NZ should go eyes wide open about MUCH lower salary levels compared to Europe (and to Australia). If we didn't have savings to buy a house etc from the last several years of hard work, I think we might reconsider whether NZ - beautiful as it is - offers high enough pay levels to justify our emigration. I completely buy into the lifestyle argument - NZ will, if anywhere can, delight you with its scenery, climate, people & attitude etc - and is a significantly lower-cost country (for westerners) for everyday living costs incl housing, car, food etc - BUT, earning a good salary does allow you to enjoy certain things in life (eg travel, roomier house and bigger garden, eating out etc) and I firmly got the impression through job research that we would end up working nearly as hard (and shorter paid holidays too) with much lower equivalent buying power than we have in Europe.
NZ (the country) was absolutely magnificent - and we haven't seen South Island yet. Northland in particular was stunningly beautiful (I felt it was rather similar to parts of the rainforest in QLD) with wonderful beaches and attractive little towns. Kauri forest - a must! (As is the fish & chip shop in Manganui.) Bay of Plenty all the way round the coast to Napier - full of beautiful coastline and beaches. (I liked the Gisbourne-Napier area a lot - if it wasn't for my wife, I'd become a farmer/ viticulturalist and settle there.) Rotarua area was fascinating though I didn't much go for Taupo area except for the Haku Falls. Tauranga wasn't really 'us' either.
The position we are in seems to be: next explore Christchurch and Wellington possibilities (we need to be close to a city for job purposes). Lifestyle property 30 mins away from downtown, close to the sea - yes please. If all else fails, start or buy into a business. In summary: NZ really enthused us but we would prefer not to live in AKL and we'll definitely have to be prepared to dig into our savings to supplement potentially lower equivalent (quality of life) earning power.
Cheers - Don
Apr 1st 2004, 6:48 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
You're bloody lucky - our biting insects like to eat POMS alive if possible .
Originally posted by pleasancefamily
Here's another surprise for me: there weren't really any mosquitos or other biting insects to speak of apart from a couple of sand flies on the beach once. Is that normal for end-summer in NZ?
Cheers - Don
Here's another surprise for me: there weren't really any mosquitos or other biting insects to speak of apart from a couple of sand flies on the beach once. Is that normal for end-summer in NZ?
Cheers - Don
Apr 1st 2004, 7:55 pm
#15
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Blenheim
Posts: 175
idocnz - all i can say in reply to your considered post is ' power to the forum moderator'