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mmm...maybe we should get it back.

mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Old May 9th 2008, 12:34 pm
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Default mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Just been watching and reading a few articles regarding Maori wanting to 'take back' land that was 'given up' to other people or purposes many years back...

Seems an awfully convenient thing to be able to do........ lay claim to land that others have developed or nurtured over many many years in the name of a tribe etc..........

How about a claim on an airport (Paraparaumu) or tens of 1000's of hectares of forest?
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Old May 9th 2008, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by teambwr47
Just been watching and reading a few articles regarding Maori wanting to 'take back' land that was 'given up' to other people or purposes many years back...

Seems an awfully convenient thing to be able to do........ lay claim to land that others have developed or nurtured over many many years in the name of a tribe etc..........

How about a claim on an airport (Paraparaumu) or tens of 1000's of hectares of forest?
I don't think any Brit Expat has the right to comment on this, particularly with the viewpoint that the Maori are wrong.

Land was only given with a promise to return to the Maori people. It belonged to them in the first place. Rather like someone asking to borrow your back garden, and then years later when you ask for it back, they say, errrm, no sorry, we've used it now, its ours. May I suggest you familiarise yourselves with the Treaty of Waitangi? To claim land, Maori don't just point at a piece of land and say, I want that one. A legal battles ensues with them having to provide detailed proof that it belonged to them in the first place. I think its embaressing how Maori people have been treated and Kiwis shoud be ashamed of themselves. If you speak to any Maori representative of any iwi, they are extremely educated people, not bitter, and will explain their plight to you.
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Old May 9th 2008, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by Littletoe
I I think its embaressing how Maori people have been treated and Kiwis shoud be ashamed of themselves.
Surely you mean the British, if we are going into generalisations?
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Old May 9th 2008, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by teambwr47
land that was 'given up' to other people or purposes many years back...
"Given up" implies willingness and a knowledgeable decision - the tribunals and courts have ruled that was not the case.

A quick reading of the Treaty of Waitangi and some history on the Treaty process over the last 20 years will help one understand the overall equity or not of the situation.
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Old May 10th 2008, 1:49 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by southerner
Surely you mean the British, if we are going into generalisations?
When does a Brit become a Kiwi? If you're a Kiwi now and not a full blooded Maori then I guess it was your ancesters or some of them that perpertrated this heinous crime!!
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Old May 10th 2008, 1:50 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

I blame the Romans, they started all this invading other people's land malarky, or was it the Greeks, or those pesky early men who left the African Rift Valley in the first place, or those bloody fish that crawled out of the ocean and started invading the land!
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Old May 10th 2008, 1:59 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

The first bacteria that multiplied themselves in some submarine volcanic soup and needed some new real estate - they have a lot to answer for!
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Old May 10th 2008, 2:09 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Isn't it the Crown who are the baddies? and how many different versions of the treaty are there?
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Old May 10th 2008, 2:19 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by Yotty
Isn't it the Crown who are the baddies? and how many different versions of the treaty are there?
2
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Old May 10th 2008, 3:47 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by Yotty
Isn't it the Crown who are the baddies? and how many different versions of the treaty are there?
Yes that nasty Queen Victoria and her evil empire !!
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Old May 10th 2008, 3:54 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

The whole history thing is murky and I don't see why anyone should be embarrassed by something which their ancestors or other unrelated people of the same race may have done a hundred or so years ago. How would Norman-descended people feel in UK if Saxon-descended ones suddenly wanted all "their" land back?
Personally, I think it's time to draw a line under all this and get on as equal kiwis. This is what was said in the controversial National party Orewa speech a few years ago. I get the feeling, however, that their are some Maori factions who won't be happy until they are landlords of the whole country - water, air, radio spectrum included - and the rest of us are paying them rent. I hope this never happens, and it would be the one thing that would probably make me want to move on somewhere else if it did.
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Old May 10th 2008, 4:34 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi
The whole history thing is murky and I don't see why anyone should be embarrassed by something which their ancestors or other unrelated people of the same race may have done a hundred or so years ago.......
My point of view exactly.
I find it extremely irritating when a politician "apologises" for acts perpetrated generations ago, and more so when I'm told it was done on my behalf.:curse: It helps no-one except for the lawyers who rub there hands at the thought of the upcoming wrongful this and that law suits.
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Old May 10th 2008, 5:16 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

[QUOTE=lapsed kiwi;6331568]The whole history thing is murky and I don't see why anyone should be embarrassed by something which their ancestors or other unrelated people of the same race may have done a hundred or so years ago.

I find it irritating that Kiwis are so quick to mouth off about the Maori culture and what they *think* are unreasonable requests, when they don't even bother to familiarise themselves with the Treaty of Waitangi, it leads to ignorant comments over and over. The Treaty has as much bearing as the Magna Carta, the constitution and the Bill of Rights, and these are just as much a part of everyday culture. Why is the Treaty viewed with such a 'who cares it was ages ago?' mentality.

When I covered a module about this subject some time ago, the lecturer was constantly interuppted by Kiwis keep shooting off about something none of them bothered to learn about. If you're not interested, that's fine, but don't comment on it.
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Old May 10th 2008, 5:22 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

Originally Posted by hazeandsteve
My point of view exactly.
I find it extremely irritating when a politician "apologises" for acts perpetrated generations ago, and more so when I'm told it was done on my behalf.:curse: It helps no-one except for the lawyers who rub there hands at the thought of the upcoming wrongful this and that law suits.
Its called taking accountability as a nation. Its not done to infuriate, but rather aid relationships with the Maori, the Aboriginals, etc. I think you'll find it helps the community that its directed at.
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Old May 10th 2008, 6:41 am
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Default Re: mmm...maybe we should get it back.

We all have equal rights & responsibilities under the Treaty either as Tangata Whenua (the people of the land ie. The Maori) or as Tangata Tiriti (the people of the Treaty ie. the rest of us).

Actually, the British wanted to get things 'right' in New Zealand, they had good relations with the Maori & didn't want to screw things up as they had with other colonies. The trouble came after the Treaty was signed & some greedy bloke (name escapes me for now), sold large pieces of land to Brits that he didn't even own.

What is often not reported in the news are the good stories about the Maori. Once land is returned to them, they often give it back to the all the people eg. large area of Bastion Point, Lake Taupo.

The majority of Maori people are not interested in Pakeha feeling guilty, they don't see any reason why Pakeha should be. They are not naive enough to believe the present generation is guilty for what previous one's did. However, they want to see the past wrongs righted.

You will always get the fundamentalist sort who grab the headlines in any situation.
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