Campbells

Interesting thread.

Nearly three years in NZ now and still on a learning curve with the Kiwis.

I love the fact that nearly everybody will greet or chat whilst walking on the beach or similar , people generally smile at you so it does present a warm fuzzy feeling but not sure if it progresses to the meat & tatties.

We had this e-day thing a few weeks back and took a 20 km drive to do the right thing with an old CRT monitor. Got there and there was a 3 km queue to get in to the dumping area, once we got to the gate I asked the traffic attendant how long it all takes and was told probably another 45 minutes. What a lot of pollution I thought, turned around and gave up at that point.

My point, most folk seemed happy at the total lack of organisation or even consider the balance of pollution this mess was creating. My point again – sometimes I really feel like – yes I am an alien to this country.

We are going to the UK for a month in Jan and where I am at, is, that if I am not going to be happy with our surroundings then I might as well be somewhere that the pay is decent, they have a sense of humour and can build decent houses.

God help any French immigrants in the next few years. Perhaps the job adds will now read,

Only people with the right to work in New Zealand may apply for this position and French applicants will not be considered ( even with New Zealand experience).

mitchuk

don't you think thats a bit cynical ?..

Avid

As a quick aside, what does that phrase actually mean? People with existing work visas? Or people without criminal records/immigration restrictions etc?

Back on topic...surely the lack of organisation that 'Campbells' complains about is the other side of the 'can-do' attitude most Kiwis seem to have. In my limited experience out here I've noticed people's willingness to try to do things..but an equal distaste for professionalism. Anybody who wants to become part of Kiwi society will, almost certainly, just have to bite their tongue and muck in. No?

That's where a message board such as this has a useful function....in everyday life expats have to conform to the standards of the host culture, but places like this allow people to relax and let off steam.

In theory, anyway, since anybody who does moan on these boards soon gets hounded off for 'negativity'!

Avid

YES!!.....but it also happens to be true

Yotty

The lack of "Bullshit" and the concepts of "a fair go" and "she'll be right" are so refreshing in a young culture barely 160 years old. With the absence of the "Class thing" and the stale odour of bureaucracy you get in the UK does make NZ an attractive place to be.

lardyl

well......as Avid intimated the "bullshit" is another type which will have no "gainsayers" - just try doing anything but keeping your mouth shut in the workplace when you see some "shockers" - most ex-Pats here will tell you: "keep your mouth shut, dont complain, dont criticise, dont suggest how you used to do it, just nod and bite your tongue"
and the bureaucracy is different, its there all right and some would say it is worse than the UK!
Almost all of the ex-Pat professionals I know are driven mad by the whole system and I'm joining them in the mad-house. Its not all sweetness and light here, be prepared for a shock, especially if you have to manage safety look at risk and contend with the "she'll be right" culture - talk about tearing your hair out.

Campbells

Yeah yeah yeah,

Just stick chewing gum in the leaky roofs

She’ll be all right

Don't tell me there is a better way cause you will make me look silly

Not a good outlook for growth / development

Some people call it moaning

Like when you get your ass kicked at rugby and look for scapegoats not the fact that the other side just played better.

I love NZ but this blinkered outlook is not going to get NZ to a first world status.

Bugger!

zaras dad

I hate that expression - When I was on the phone to people thru work back in 2001 and they werent interested in something , it was always "Nah mate, She'll be right" so I used to say either "Who's she?" or "Oh, can I speak to her" - cue bewildered silence

When I hear that expression I get the feeling that if its something being done for you - it'll be a bodge job in the offing.


I can imagine all those poor (literally) people who ended up with leaky homes and the builder was stood there with his "completed" house saying the immortal words........................................

Campbells

Perhaps the bewildered silence is the response to dialogue that could contain a sense of humour.

Umm. yeah

whitesand

I agree with what Campbells and Avid are saying. All this laid-back attitude can turn to sloppiness and a disrespect for professionalism. And don't even think that it's a classless society here. I've seen much more snobbishness in Auckland than in the UK. Here, you get judged by the size of your car, your clothes, your house, etc. I think all this emphasis on houses, mortgages and 'life-style' is basically because there is so little else to do.

dubstar

I would like to know what this lifestyle everyone talks about actually is, cos I feel that I am missing out on something quite special

Campbells

Perhaps a new term “hidden wealth” is appropriate.

I have met (mostly through business) many Kiwis’ that are VERY wealthy and if you had to pass them in the street, you would think they didn’t have two bob.

From my business dealings here, I would say that the wealthy Kiwi’s risk spending their dollars on what may be considered “flash” (anything that may not suit farming lifestyle or wasn't purchased in the Warehouse) and the risk is that their employees realise why they are earning a piss-poor wage. That is also probably why you have qualified professors driving cabs or busses in a country with a dire skills shortage.

Perhaps the use of the word camouflage is more appropriate, so we can all just look the same and buy our clothes from the Warehouse so we don’t become that tall poppy that is seen as striving.

There is also a fine line between a can-do attitude and a don’t want to pay a professional attitude as we are all very average at DIY.

Being branded as negative because you want to discuss or have a view on things is just another form of dictatorship (perhaps bullying). The reality is that there are thousands of KIWIS’s that leave NZ to live in Australia and if you want to ask them the reasons why they abandoned ship you may just get a shot of hard, cold facts.

I was at the dentist the other day, quoted $750 for an hours work and when I questioned, why so expensive (how dare I), the response was that dental costs here are comparable with the US and Canada. My response was, “sure thing but your NZ wages are not on a par with US and Canada so how do you expect people to pay?” The dental nurse nearly choked laughing.

I have no desire to generalise, as that is a huge mistake. I am British, I am a legal alien here in NZ and well aware of that.

Sure the glass is half-full but if there is a hole in the bottom of the glass, sticking it with chewing gum is not going to cut it.

Thinking out the box means the ability to identify potential problems and create potential solutions, its called progress.

Welcome to the real world in 2007. New Zealand can become part of it or chose to remain in isolation.

Now you have a nice day!

Hoyo

Some interesting posts there Campbell!

If I understand you correctly you are going over to the UK soon to test the water with a view to returning. I am teetering on the brink of going back to the UK myself. Not because I think the UK is great, but I don't think NZ is better. I will probably stay though cos I want to retrain....

dubstar

agree Campbell, been witness to it myself. I just get frustrated with the lack of progress and being in the situation as an immigrant that my views are not correct because it isnt the kiwi way. Like living in phaic tan

Avid

Of course it isn't a classless society...it's just that the upper classes are quite small (and keep their heads down).

As I've said one or ninety times, I live in a 'posh' part of Wellington and the locals are clearly quite snobby...but can only really express themselves in terms of what model of Mercedes they drive (or 1950's 'classic car' for the ones that work in advertising).

Make of car is probably the most important signifier of status in the country...

and I can't drive...