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Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Old Oct 31st 2005, 1:25 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
I mentioned to my Kiwi Mother in Law that many people on this website were struggling financially, including a family of 4 I had read about who were living in Auckland on $65000.

Her response was "well they must be living very extravagantly then".

Im ny experience Kiwis cannot believe anything could be more expensive in NZ than in the UK.

Would anyone like to comment on this?
Yeah, I'd like to comment. Mostly because it's something that really gets on my tits and having sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and shown Kiwis the sums, they still don't believe it. Which is incredibly irritating.

1. Kiwis are notoriously resistant to immigrants, especially "whinging poms" and will vehemently defend their country, whether they know they are wrong or not.

2. Mortgage rates and the higher tax bracket on earnings kicking in at a lower level here mean that (as a rough calculation) we would need about an extra $15k a year on top of our salaries to actually mean that we were on an equivalent cost of living to the UK.

3. House prices here (Auckland) are so out of line with wages, it just isn't funny.

3a. So, because of (3), most kiwis either still live at home (because they can't afford to move out) or have been lent the deposit for a house by their parents who can only do so because they bought their own house when house prices were sensible (and have consequently paid it off already). Additionally, traditionally people owned several properties as a matter of course and basically sold up their main house in the city and moved to the house by the beach when they retired, living on the money from the sale. This generation of people aren't spending 60% of their salary on their houses every month and so, don't find it difficult to live.

3b. The next generation of kiwi house owners will be (or already are in many cases) as strapped as the expats are.

4. NZ is 'sold' by many employers (to UK people) as such a cheap place to live that immigrants to this country invariably get the sums wrong. This is hard to recover from if you've just sold up and plowed everything into a nice house - particularly so if there's only one earner and you have kids. In the UK my partner and I could live on one of our wages, here we can't.

5. Many things that you cannot do without (petrol, electricity etc etc) have gone up by unbelieveably huge amounts in the past two years alone (40% or more in many cases). Unsurprisingly, wages are not following suit (less than inflation).

6. For some bizarre reason, Kiwis believe that every English person that comes to live herer lives on GBP instead of on Dollars. You always get comments like "Yeah, but if you convert it into pounds, it's really cheap, how can you complain?" This is essentially so much bullshit, I earn dollars, I spend dollars and therefore, paying $40 for a DVD or $50 for a hardcover book is fekking expensive.

7. The monopoly companies (Telescum (sorry, Telecom), Air NZ etc) basically screw you for as much money as they can get which doesn't help. Transpower (owns and manages the national grid but is actually a state-owned enterprise) just posted a $111Million profit, over and above what they are supposed to charge... Are they going to have to give it back? No, I shouldn't think so. It's very easy to hold the spineless government to ransom when you run the national grid or when you can turn off the phone system at the touch of a button...

8. This country has become a LOT more expensive in the last 5 years, bringing it up to developed country levels (while salaries still languish in the 'you're taking the piss aren't you?' area). When the ecopnomy is strong (as it is) you can fleece tourists and get away with it, so most businesses decide that they can also fleece the people that live here and get away with it, and you know what? They can!

9. The influx of Asian immigrants in the last few years has done very very bad things to this country - they pushed up the prices of houses to such a degree that if you were a normal person (or in fact, a kiwi) trying to buy a house, you were almost guaranteed to get outbid by an Asian that topped your bid by 50k in the auction process, demolished the house, subdivided the 1000sqm section and built three 5 bedroom monstrosities on the site and lived in one and sold the other two to get some of their money back. This is why there are very few historic houses left in Auckland at least (Asians apparently won't live in old houses, something to do with the feng shui (honestly)). It's very sad.

Now, i'm not racist and i'd like to make that very clear but it's a fact, it happened and thankfully (although too late of course) the government has seen the history (of which there is next to bugger all anyway) disappearing and slapped some different zoning restrictions in place in certain areas. This is a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened and you can never get those houses back.

So, yeah, this country is much more expensive than it is sold as and there's no point selling a country on the "lifestyle" if you can't actually have that lifestyle because you can't afford it (not to mention that you never get enough holiday to actually go anywhere really).

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Old Oct 31st 2005, 7:11 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
Yeah, I'd like to comment.
Good post. You are right, especially your points about the previous generation and housing since their costs of living are much much lower so of course they don't understand. The situation is just the same in the UK though, we spend circa 50% earnings on the mortgage.

Also don't need to live in NZ to accept that these points are true (we can see it from the UK over cyber waves! plus we have family & close friends there so appreciate it from the kiwi angle also) and I wanted to reply to your post as I suspect a lot of people will read your post as 'negative about NZ' ( ) and therefore not like it or accept it. I know there was no reference to your views on NZ life, just merely the COL angle which seems to be such hot news on the forum of late!

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Old Oct 31st 2005, 7:54 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

[QUOTE=NZ Climber]Yeah, I'd like to comment. Mostly because it's something that really gets on my tits and having sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and shown Kiwis the sums, they still don't believe it. Which is incredibly irritating.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
1. Kiwis are notoriously resistant to immigrants, especially "whinging poms" and will vehemently defend their country, whether they know they are wrong or not.
I found the same from the brits when I moved to the UK - That characteristic is not specific to kiwi's.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
2. Mortgage rates and the higher tax bracket on earnings kicking in at a lower level here mean that (as a rough calculation) we would need about an extra $15k a year on top of our salaries to actually mean that we were on an equivalent cost of living to the UK.
Originally Posted by NZ Climber
3. House prices here (Auckland) are so out of line with wages, it just isn't funny.
So don't buy a house - rents are quite cheap in relation to house prices - who says everybody should be able to afford a house. Super Yacht prices are out of line with wages also.....

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
3a. So, because of (3), most kiwis either still live at home (because they can't afford to move out) or have been lent the deposit for a house by their parents who can only do so because they bought their own house when house prices were sensible (and have consequently paid it off already). Additionally, traditionally people owned several properties as a matter of course and basically sold up their main house in the city and moved to the house by the beach when they retired, living on the money from the sale. This generation of people aren't spending 60% of their salary on their houses every month and so, don't find it difficult to live.
The previous generation is lucky.....but that's life.
These days the person that rents for 30 years might be better off than the person who mortgaged for 30 years - 'might'.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
3b. The next generation of kiwi house owners will be (or already are in many cases) as strapped as the expats are.
Only if they keep buying stuff they can't afford.....

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
4. NZ is 'sold' by many employers (to UK people) as such a cheap place to live that immigrants to this country invariably get the sums wrong. This is hard to recover from if you've just sold up and plowed everything into a nice house - particularly so if there's only one earner and you have kids. In the UK my partner and I could live on one of our wages, here we can't.
That's advertising - UK does it too. Up to the individual to find the small print.
Employer are always going to highlight the good points.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
5. Many things that you cannot do without (petrol, electricity etc etc) have gone up by unbelieveably huge amounts in the past two years alone (40% or more in many cases). Unsurprisingly, wages are not following suit (less than inflation).
Same in UK.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
6. For some bizarre reason, Kiwis believe that every English person that comes to live herer lives on GBP instead of on Dollars. You always get comments like "Yeah, but if you convert it into pounds, it's really cheap, how can you complain?" This is essentially so much bullshit, I earn dollars, I spend dollars and therefore, paying $40 for a DVD or $50 for a hardcover book is fekking expensive.
I agree with that.....you can't live in a country and keep converting things back to your own currency. Just doesn't work.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
7. The monopoly companies (Telescum (sorry, Telecom), Air NZ etc) basically screw you for as much money as they can get which doesn't help. Transpower (owns and manages the national grid but is actually a state-owned enterprise) just posted a $111Million profit, over and above what they are supposed to charge... Are they going to have to give it back? No, I shouldn't think so. It's very easy to hold the spineless government to ransom when you run the national grid or when you can turn off the phone system at the touch of a button...
Yeah - sucks aye!

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
8. This country has become a LOT more expensive in the last 5 years, bringing it up to developed country levels (while salaries still languish in the 'you're taking the piss aren't you?' area). When the ecopnomy is strong (as it is) you can fleece tourists and get away with it, so most businesses decide that they can also fleece the people that live here and get away with it, and you know what? They can!
Re: cost - yes it has become more expensive lately - but so has UK and many other places. Try living in Dubai!
re: the businesses - good on them - if I owned a business I too would try to capitilise on the good times. That's life.

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
9. The influx of Asian immigrants in the last few years has done very very bad things to this country - they pushed up the prices of houses to such a degree that if you were a normal person (or in fact, a kiwi) trying to buy a house, you were almost guaranteed to get outbid by an Asian that topped your bid by 50k in the auction process, demolished the house, subdivided the 1000sqm section and built three 5 bedroom monstrosities on the site and lived in one and sold the other two to get some of their money back. This is why there are very few historic houses left in Auckland at least (Asians apparently won't live in old houses, something to do with the feng shui (honestly)). It's very sad.
Yes - that is a shame.
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 7:55 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
Yeah, I'd like to comment. Mostly because it's something that really gets on my tits and having sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and shown Kiwis the sums, they still don't believe it. Which is incredibly irritating.

1. Kiwis are notoriously resistant to immigrants, especially "whinging poms" and will vehemently defend their country, whether they know they are wrong or not.

2. Mortgage rates and the higher tax bracket on earnings kicking in at a lower level here mean that (as a rough calculation) we would need about an extra $15k a year on top of our salaries to actually mean that we were on an equivalent cost of living to the UK.

3. House prices here (Auckland) are so out of line with wages, it just isn't funny.

3a. So, because of (3), most kiwis either still live at home (because they can't afford to move out) or have been lent the deposit for a house by their parents who can only do so because they bought their own house when house prices were sensible (and have consequently paid it off already). Additionally, traditionally people owned several properties as a matter of course and basically sold up their main house in the city and moved to the house by the beach when they retired, living on the money from the sale. This generation of people aren't spending 60% of their salary on their houses every month and so, don't find it difficult to live.

3b. The next generation of kiwi house owners will be (or already are in many cases) as strapped as the expats are.

4. NZ is 'sold' by many employers (to UK people) as such a cheap place to live that immigrants to this country invariably get the sums wrong. This is hard to recover from if you've just sold up and plowed everything into a nice house - particularly so if there's only one earner and you have kids. In the UK my partner and I could live on one of our wages, here we can't.

5. Many things that you cannot do without (petrol, electricity etc etc) have gone up by unbelieveably huge amounts in the past two years alone (40% or more in many cases). Unsurprisingly, wages are not following suit (less than inflation).

6. For some bizarre reason, Kiwis believe that every English person that comes to live herer lives on GBP instead of on Dollars. You always get comments like "Yeah, but if you convert it into pounds, it's really cheap, how can you complain?" This is essentially so much bullshit, I earn dollars, I spend dollars and therefore, paying $40 for a DVD or $50 for a hardcover book is fekking expensive.

7. The monopoly companies (Telescum (sorry, Telecom), Air NZ etc) basically screw you for as much money as they can get which doesn't help. Transpower (owns and manages the national grid but is actually a state-owned enterprise) just posted a $111Million profit, over and above what they are supposed to charge... Are they going to have to give it back? No, I shouldn't think so. It's very easy to hold the spineless government to ransom when you run the national grid or when you can turn off the phone system at the touch of a button...

8. This country has become a LOT more expensive in the last 5 years, bringing it up to developed country levels (while salaries still languish in the 'you're taking the piss aren't you?' area). When the ecopnomy is strong (as it is) you can fleece tourists and get away with it, so most businesses decide that they can also fleece the people that live here and get away with it, and you know what? They can!

9. The influx of Asian immigrants in the last few years has done very very bad things to this country - they pushed up the prices of houses to such a degree that if you were a normal person (or in fact, a kiwi) trying to buy a house, you were almost guaranteed to get outbid by an Asian that topped your bid by 50k in the auction process, demolished the house, subdivided the 1000sqm section and built three 5 bedroom monstrosities on the site and lived in one and sold the other two to get some of their money back. This is why there are very few historic houses left in Auckland at least (Asians apparently won't live in old houses, something to do with the feng shui (honestly)). It's very sad.

Now, i'm not racist and i'd like to make that very clear but it's a fact, it happened and thankfully (although too late of course) the government has seen the history (of which there is next to bugger all anyway) disappearing and slapped some different zoning restrictions in place in certain areas. This is a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened and you can never get those houses back.

So, yeah, this country is much more expensive than it is sold as and there's no point selling a country on the "lifestyle" if you can't actually have that lifestyle because you can't afford it (not to mention that you never get enough holiday to actually go anywhere really).


Excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 7:56 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by NZ Climber
Yeah, I'd like to comment. Mostly because it's something that really gets on my tits and having sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and shown Kiwis the sums, they still don't believe it. Which is incredibly irritating.

1. Kiwis are notoriously resistant to immigrants, especially "whinging poms" and will vehemently defend their country, whether they know they are wrong or not.

2. Mortgage rates and the higher tax bracket on earnings kicking in at a lower level here mean that (as a rough calculation) we would need about an extra $15k a year on top of our salaries to actually mean that we were on an equivalent cost of living to the UK.

3. House prices here (Auckland) are so out of line with wages, it just isn't funny.

3a. So, because of (3), most kiwis either still live at home (because they can't afford to move out) or have been lent the deposit for a house by their parents who can only do so because they bought their own house when house prices were sensible (and have consequently paid it off already). Additionally, traditionally people owned several properties as a matter of course and basically sold up their main house in the city and moved to the house by the beach when they retired, living on the money from the sale. This generation of people aren't spending 60% of their salary on their houses every month and so, don't find it difficult to live.

3b. The next generation of kiwi house owners will be (or already are in many cases) as strapped as the expats are.

4. NZ is 'sold' by many employers (to UK people) as such a cheap place to live that immigrants to this country invariably get the sums wrong. This is hard to recover from if you've just sold up and plowed everything into a nice house - particularly so if there's only one earner and you have kids. In the UK my partner and I could live on one of our wages, here we can't.

5. Many things that you cannot do without (petrol, electricity etc etc) have gone up by unbelieveably huge amounts in the past two years alone (40% or more in many cases). Unsurprisingly, wages are not following suit (less than inflation).

6. For some bizarre reason, Kiwis believe that every English person that comes to live herer lives on GBP instead of on Dollars. You always get comments like "Yeah, but if you convert it into pounds, it's really cheap, how can you complain?" This is essentially so much bullshit, I earn dollars, I spend dollars and therefore, paying $40 for a DVD or $50 for a hardcover book is fekking expensive.

7. The monopoly companies (Telescum (sorry, Telecom), Air NZ etc) basically screw you for as much money as they can get which doesn't help. Transpower (owns and manages the national grid but is actually a state-owned enterprise) just posted a $111Million profit, over and above what they are supposed to charge... Are they going to have to give it back? No, I shouldn't think so. It's very easy to hold the spineless government to ransom when you run the national grid or when you can turn off the phone system at the touch of a button...

8. This country has become a LOT more expensive in the last 5 years, bringing it up to developed country levels (while salaries still languish in the 'you're taking the piss aren't you?' area). When the ecopnomy is strong (as it is) you can fleece tourists and get away with it, so most businesses decide that they can also fleece the people that live here and get away with it, and you know what? They can!

9. The influx of Asian immigrants in the last few years has done very very bad things to this country - they pushed up the prices of houses to such a degree that if you were a normal person (or in fact, a kiwi) trying to buy a house, you were almost guaranteed to get outbid by an Asian that topped your bid by 50k in the auction process, demolished the house, subdivided the 1000sqm section and built three 5 bedroom monstrosities on the site and lived in one and sold the other two to get some of their money back. This is why there are very few historic houses left in Auckland at least (Asians apparently won't live in old houses, something to do with the feng shui (honestly)). It's very sad.

Now, i'm not racist and i'd like to make that very clear but it's a fact, it happened and thankfully (although too late of course) the government has seen the history (of which there is next to bugger all anyway) disappearing and slapped some different zoning restrictions in place in certain areas. This is a good thing, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened and you can never get those houses back.

So, yeah, this country is much more expensive than it is sold as and there's no point selling a country on the "lifestyle" if you can't actually have that lifestyle because you can't afford it (not to mention that you never get enough holiday to actually go anywhere really).


Spot On NZ Climber. Thanks for putting it down so well on 'paper'.
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 8:13 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by Buzzy--Bee
I mentioned to my Kiwi Mother in Law that many people on this website were struggling financially, including a family of 4 I had read about who were living in Auckland on $65000.

Her response was "well they must be living very extravagantly then".

Im ny experience Kiwis cannot believe anything could be more expensive in NZ than in the UK.

Would anyone like to comment on this?
Well... we've been comparing cost of hundreds of items... and with few exceptions NZ is more expensive...

Perhaps my favourite and easiest to follow example is the cost of milk. We pay approx £0.95 ($2.40) for 4 litres - in NZ we would pay about $3.60 for 2 litres. NZ has what is widely acknowledged as the most efficient dairy industry in the World... yet you still pay more for your milk than we do.

I've just compared the prices of fruit (we buy organic) and I see organic NZ Braeburn apples are $6.99 for 2KG in Woolworths - We paid £1.99 ($5) for the same on the weekend!

How about eggs? We buy free range from Tesco's and pay approx £1.60 ($4) for a dozen. NZ price is about $6.80. If you want the evil (chickens crammed in a cage) value eggs then Tesco price is £1.19 ($2.99) for 15... NZ price is $2.99 for 12..

Now you could shop around and find variations on all the above and I also accept that when the $NZ falls the above prices might even out... BUT when the dollar does fall all of the imported products in NZ will increase in price further.... and I expect NZ apples to become cheaper still in the UK!

The fact that NZ is so much more expensive is a major bugbear of mine. If I was living in NZ I would definitely be looking to start a consumer campaign about this - as I suspect the supply chain is making very healthy profits out of the average kiwi.

When we do get to NZ (delayed due to family illness) I will no doubt do what most other people do... suffer pak-n-save, buy direct from the farm or, more likely, grow my own!

Alan.
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by isv
Well... we've been comparing cost of hundreds of items... and with few exceptions NZ is more expensive...

Perhaps my favourite and easiest to follow example is the cost of milk. We pay approx £0.95 ($2.40) for 4 litres - in NZ we would pay about $3.60 for 2 litres. NZ has what is widely acknowledged as the most efficient dairy industry in the World... yet you still pay more for your milk than we do.

I've just compared the prices of fruit (we buy organic) and I see organic NZ Braeburn apples are $6.99 for 2KG in Woolworths - We paid £1.99 ($5) for the same on the weekend!

How about eggs? We buy free range from Tesco's and pay approx £1.60 ($4) for a dozen. NZ price is about $6.80. If you want the evil (chickens crammed in a cage) value eggs then Tesco price is £1.19 ($2.99) for 15... NZ price is $2.99 for 12..

Now you could shop around and find variations on all the above and I also accept that when the $NZ falls the above prices might even out... BUT when the dollar does fall all of the imported products in NZ will increase in price further.... and I expect NZ apples to become cheaper still in the UK!

The fact that NZ is so much more expensive is a major bugbear of mine. If I was living in NZ I would definitely be looking to start a consumer campaign about this - as I suspect the supply chain is making very healthy profits out of the average kiwi.

When we do get to NZ (delayed due to family illness) I will no doubt do what most other people do... suffer pak-n-save, buy direct from the farm or, more likely, grow my own!

Alan.
the one thing i'm quite involved in here is milk.As we farm, and having come from the UK one thing needs to be told.Why can farmers in the UK no longer make any money out of milk production...at all, not even close to a profit?
Its because the bean counters and purchasers buy overseas in europe at slave labour costs.This discussion shows how desperate and determined people are in the UK to pay as little as possible for things,even at the expense of their own country industry.RIP the dairy industry in the UK, because now its all but gone, it will not return.Hundreds of years of quality breeding stock wasted, hundreds of years of knowledge sold off to save five pence here and there by buying from cheaper markets.What a wonderful mentality.I'm pleased to say this mentality has not yet reached NZ in farming.
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 8:50 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by deedee
the one thing i'm quite involved in here is milk.As we farm, and having come from the UK one thing needs to be told.Why can farmers in the UK no longer make any money out of milk production...at all, not even close to a profit?
Its because the bean counters and purchasers buy overseas in europe at slave labour costs.This discussion shows how desperate and determined people are in the UK to pay as little as possible for things,even at the expense of their own country industry.RIP the dairy industry in the UK, because now its all but gone, it will not return.Hundreds of years of quality breeding stock wasted, hundreds of years of knowledge sold off to save five pence here and there by buying from cheaper markets.What a wonderful mentality.I'm pleased to say this mentality has not yet reached NZ in farming.
Good Point.
Saving...but at what cost?
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 11:10 am
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by deedee
the one thing i'm quite involved in here is milk.As we farm, and having come from the UK one thing needs to be told.Why can farmers in the UK no longer make any money out of milk production...at all, not even close to a profit?
Its because the bean counters and purchasers buy overseas in europe at slave labour costs.This discussion shows how desperate and determined people are in the UK to pay as little as possible for things,even at the expense of their own country industry.RIP the dairy industry in the UK, because now its all but gone, it will not return.Hundreds of years of quality breeding stock wasted, hundreds of years of knowledge sold off to save five pence here and there by buying from cheaper markets.What a wonderful mentality.I'm pleased to say this mentality has not yet reached NZ in farming.
I think this is a very good point that should be taken into consideration when comparing the cost of living in NZ and UK.

Unfortunately, it does seem that the smaller consumer market in NZ leads to higher per item prices. It's just one of those things I guess.

Although, I did read on another thread in here that the way to make money in NZ is to become an importer, so there obviously seems to be an increasing market for consumer goods which can be sold at inflated prices.

What frightens me though is the cost of housing in commuting distances of the major cities. If we move to NZ (and that's changed from a when) we're not going to be bringing over suitcases of folding, we'll have a carrier bag full if we're lucky!
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 12:31 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

[QUOTE=kelvynd]
Originally Posted by NZ Climber
Yeah, I'd like to comment. Mostly because it's something that really gets on my tits and having sat down with a piece of paper and a pen and shown Kiwis the sums, they still don't believe it. Which is incredibly irritating.



I found the same from the brits when I moved to the UK - That characteristic is not specific to kiwi's.




So don't buy a house - rents are quite cheap in relation to house prices - who says everybody should be able to afford a house. Super Yacht prices are out of line with wages also.....


The previous generation is lucky.....but that's life.
These days the person that rents for 30 years might be better off than the person who mortgaged for 30 years - 'might'.


Only if they keep buying stuff they can't afford.....


That's advertising - UK does it too. Up to the individual to find the small print.
Employer are always going to highlight the good points.


Same in UK.


I agree with that.....you can't live in a country and keep converting things back to your own currency. Just doesn't work.


Yeah - sucks aye!


Re: cost - yes it has become more expensive lately - but so has UK and many other places. Try living in Dubai!
re: the businesses - good on them - if I owned a business I too would try to capitilise on the good times. That's life.


Yes - that is a shame.
Damn.....got my heart set on a "Super Yacht"
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 12:35 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by Pompey_Paul
[Damn.....got my heart set on a "Super Yacht"
Paul,
how about a "super" rubber dingy instead.
KAZ
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Old Oct 31st 2005, 5:58 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by kaz Hen
Paul,
how about a "super" rubber dingy instead.
KAZ
Olny if its a "Super Rubber Dingy"
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 2:29 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by deedee
the one thing i'm quite involved in here is milk.As we farm, and having come from the UK one thing needs to be told.Why can farmers in the UK no longer make any money out of milk production...at all, not even close to a profit?
Its because the bean counters and purchasers buy overseas in europe at slave labour costs.This discussion shows how desperate and determined people are in the UK to pay as little as possible for things,even at the expense of their own country industry.RIP the dairy industry in the UK, because now its all but gone, it will not return.Hundreds of years of quality breeding stock wasted, hundreds of years of knowledge sold off to save five pence here and there by buying from cheaper markets.What a wonderful mentality.I'm pleased to say this mentality has not yet reached NZ in farming.
Deedee,

I agree that the state of UK dairy farming is lamentable. This is as a direct result of the all-powerful supermarkets and, I think, the general ignorance of the typical UK consumer.

I was responding to the specific point about the cost of living in NZ - and providing examples that demonstrate some significant cost advantages to the UK consumer. There is an indirect long-term cost to our bargain milk as you point out - the UK dairy industry is on its knees. The average UK consumer probably isn't too fussed about that (nor the government) - unfortunately.

And it is undoubtedly true UK dairy farmers are struggling - whilst it is also true that the average NZ dairy farmer does incredibly well in comparison...

The cost of running a business is generally far less in NZ than in the UK. The downside is that the relatively small market 'forces' the channel to run on margins that most UK businesses can only dream about... and I suspect that everyone from the retailer back to the producer/importer is taking a far thicker wedge from the consumer than would ever be tolerated in the UK.

This is all very subjective. Consumers in the UK have been conditioned to expect/demand cheaper prices...and the supermarkets have been happy to oblige with, of course, easy access to lower-cost alternatives from overseas acting as a barrier to local supplier inflation. As a result the supermarkets tend to have everyone over a barrel - but at least the average consumer is happy (although they're typically buying crap good). I suspect competition in NZ is also far weaker and this sustains those margins...
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 5:04 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

i agree with all you write there, the two or three major player supermarkets are guilty of a clinical destruction of UK producers simply for profit.
Thats one of the issues i have with the UK as a whole.When does it become an acceptable profit, when is it enough to say we're making a profit so lets not screw the supplier anymore?
As a dairy farmer in NZ you will produce about 1.5% to 3% profit, in the UK because of the purchasing power(and there is no other reason for the price as compliance costs are now very similar) they are currently making running at -6%-15%!
I can speak from experience too, as someone i know invested over three million pounds into a farm to produce onions for one of the main retailers.It took over twelve months before production came on stream and after less than one month of production they decided to buy from Holland instead because it saved them 0.5 pence per kilo.Business is business but the point here is that the cost saving was not passed on to the customer, and another huge business in the UK goes bankrupt.
We all love to get things cheap, but the mentality of purchasing power in the UK has lost all its morality.
The UK market is not that big an issue for dairy farmers here, Asia and China is of far more importance.Maybe this is why its not on its knees been stabbed in the back by some smart suit in purchasing for the oh so wonderful, oh such value,we can't live without them supermarkets of Blighty.
There is a social price to pay for demanding ever cheaper goods,i can think of many,perhaps its because the f##k you all attitude is far more prevelant in the UK that this is now why big supermarket business operates that way there?
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Old Nov 1st 2005, 5:50 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: Kiwis can't believe we have a problem with cost of living

Originally Posted by deedee
i agree with all you write there, the two or three major player supermarkets are guilty of a clinical destruction of UK producers simply for profit.
Thats one of the issues i have with the UK as a whole.When does it become an acceptable profit, when is it enough to say we're making a profit so lets not screw the supplier anymore?
As a dairy farmer in NZ you will produce about 1.5% to 3% profit, in the UK because of the purchasing power(and there is no other reason for the price as compliance costs are now very similar) they are currently making running at -6%-15%!
I can speak from experience too, as someone i know invested over three million pounds into a farm to produce onions for one of the main retailers.It took over twelve months before production came on stream and after less than one month of production they decided to buy from Holland instead because it saved them 0.5 pence per kilo.Business is business but the point here is that the cost saving was not passed on to the customer, and another huge business in the UK goes bankrupt.
We all love to get things cheap, but the mentality of purchasing power in the UK has lost all its morality.
The UK market is not that big an issue for dairy farmers here, Asia and China is of far more importance.Maybe this is why its not on its knees been stabbed in the back by some smart suit in purchasing for the oh so wonderful, oh such value,we can't live without them supermarkets of Blighty.
There is a social price to pay for demanding ever cheaper goods,i can think of many,perhaps its because the f##k you all attitude is far more prevelant in the UK that this is now why big supermarket business operates that way there?
farmers in the uk getting poorer , food in the supermarkets (uk) is getting more expensive , and tesco's (example) making profits in the billions at the expense of the farmers and the goverment lets them do it!
le
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