Robbie2010

Bi-cultural? ..... Look a little closer ... you'll find its a multicultural society in NZ!

bourbon-biscuit

I think Maori culture fits both definitions

Your bit about a culture wanting to impose its "residual culture" over another shows a really crass understanding of NZ and Maori history. The adoption of *some* Maori norms, values etc into mainstream NZ culture (if you will) is about respecting the Treaty and redressing some pretty severe past wrongs. And, it may interest you to know that it isn't just Maori who want this (and that also it isn't all Maori), so "imposing" culture "residual" culture don't really make sense. Culture is not fixed, we can't just open the history books and look at the practices and beliefs of Maori pre-European arrival and find "the Maori culture". If you want to see what "imposing culture" looks like you can't find a much better example than the entire history of the British Empire

NZ may well be multicultural but first and foremost it is bi-cultural, this is enshrined in our nation's founding document and in the conscience of all of us here who look at the plight of the Australian indigenous people in the past few hundred years and think "not in my name".

Charismatic

In my opinion your views seem to be those of a typical apologist which is to say lack due consideration and foresight. The treaty text is here but you'll be dissapointed if you are looking for references to integrating traditional Maori values into the British culture of the time or Western culture now.

On the issue of redressing past wrongs, and with the knowledge of our current process of benign cultural assimilation, two wrongs still won't make a right.
Culture may not be fixed but it can be defined. Disagree on the residue of past cultures, Western culture for example enshrines within it many aspects of the ancient Greek and Roman cultures as well as others.
Which is exactly why we need a cultural secularism in government and society. Everyone is entitled to enjoy the vestiges of their past cultures but as a society we impose no standard of culture, as we would impose no standard religion upon each other.

This is the very basis of freedom in our society, it's going to be a very steep hill to convince most of us that preserving a culture is more important than maintaining cultural freedom.
Show me where?

Browner_

and thats why its doomed to fail. History. history or whatever, but you cannot continue a racist devide as a basis for a country. Maori arent disadvantaged today in any shape or form now.

And I can understand Robbie2010's point. Contemporary immigrants from europe, asia, africa dont expect to have to pay political correctness points to some bi-cultural expectation.

Everybody is competing for jobs in the same way, everyone has the same opportunities for schooling and education. If you dont get on, its down to your own attitude from what I can see, your own failure to develop yourself rather than portray yourself as a victim and put your hand out.

Every country in the world is affected by colonialism in some shape or form, get on with it and get over with it.

If WWII had ended differently, maori would be significantly worse off than they are now.

bourbon-biscuit

Hehe, I think we just come from such different philosophical and political perspectives that we're never going to agree here!

Bellasmum

I'm not interested in getting into an argument with you Robbie but NZ is a biclutural country.

The residents of NZ are multicultural.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/the-new-zealanders/12

I'm over this. The topic has taken the often used diversion of "Maori have the same chances as we do" bashing, so I will move on and leave you to it.

It would be a shame to toss facts into the discussion.

Though I am keen to know how long Browner has been a Maori and knows so much about what it is like to be one? LOL

simonsi

Wow, as I said this sitting on tables isn't just a Maori thing, its plain good manners.

Its just as relevant to anyone fully clothed who may have sat (unknowingly) in something I would rather NOT have on the top of a table, it is not just relevant to anyone not wearing clothes as said above

"Insult" no, you can't be insulted by an act unintended or in ignorance, you can be offended but in general usage the word insult implies intent and that wasn't the case here. Of course if you go looking for offence you will find it...

Is what happened here some indicator of some deep-seated malaise in NZ society, I doubt it. Did two people come across each other and rub each other up the wrong way, definitely yes.

But nothing more than that IMHO.....

Robbie2010

Try reading further! NZ is multicultural! ... http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/the-new-zealanders/13

Stormer999

Hi Bellasmum,
In the UK we have in schools approx 40-50 different nationalities of children so you can gather that we are now no longer just British. I would not consider going to the house of a different nationality/religion without having the inside info of what to do or not to do so that I do not offend. So yes please without entering into the table argument I would very much appreciate a list of to does or not, just so I know the difference to start with....

Stormer, normally I would post a list of Maori values and concepts and in fact I did post two in relation to the topic. It appears to have been ignored and the following posts in the main have been what I consider condescending sneers.

Bo-Jangles

Some may be, but sadly they hide it so well, that we see very little evidence.

It's just so ingrained into everyday language to hear some daily slur on some race or nation in the newspapers, television or radio. The stalwarts of NZ society that they are; Murray Deaker in the spotlight this week for using the 'N' word on the radio and not one official complaint was made. I'm not a racist Paul Henry is still bleating on about being taken out of context and he's alright ain't he, meant no harm, eh? It just continues and hasn't improved at all since Paul Holmes infamously called Kofi Annan a 'cheeky darkie'.

Am Loolah

I think, as you have, that when we remember it's a 20 month old child who sat on the table, your comment regarding 2 people (the adults) rubbing each other up the wrong way is perfect.

My 4 children are a quarter Maori and I have lived in NZ for 4+ years. I didn't know about this socially unacceptable scenario or indeed many others. The one thing this thread has made me think is I would like to find out more about the Maori cultures and beliefs etc for my own benefit as a soon to be citizen and for my children's heritage too.

I grew up in London which is certainly multi-cultural, not bi-cultural and I can recognise the difference between the two.

Bellasmum

http://www.maori.org.nz/tikanga/

The information below relates to the topic of the thread. It comes from this health link http://www.ccdhb.org.nz/news/Tikanga%20Maori.pdf

TE KA I / PAPAMUKA / WAI TINANA – FOOD / LINEN / BODY SUB STANCES
Principle
Tapu and noa are key concepts that underpin many Mäori practices. Things that are tapu (sacred) are kept separate from things that are noa (not restricted.)

Guideline
Staff need to be familiar with the concept that for Mäori the body and bodily
substances are tapu and food is noa.

When caring for Mäori patients, staff can observe the principles of tapu and noa by:

• refraining from passing food over a person’s head;
• refraining from using pillowcases for any purpose other than placement underthe head;
• encouraging whänau to provide their own pillowcases and to arrange their
own laundering;
• using different wash cloths for washing the head and washing the body;
• being especially vigilant about the normal order of body washing from neck to genital to anal area;
• separating certain items from contact with the body or body substances:
- combs and brushes are not placed on a surface where food may be placed.
- surfaces where food or medication may be placed are not used as seating.
- microwaves used for heating food are not used for heating items that have
come into contact with the body.
- compliance with C&C DHB policy, ensuring the differing purposes for
fridges and freezers are honored thus ensuring stored food and medication
are always separate from stored body substances.
- ensuring that glasses and jugs used for drinking water are used solely for
that purpose.
- being vigilant in ensuring that tea towels are only used for drying dishes
and that they are separated from other used linen at collection points.
- ensuring that receptacles for excreta are not placed near food,
food trays or food containers nor on tables or other surfaces that may be
used for eating eg: bedside tables.

You may also find this link helpful
Thttp://www.mothersmatter.co.nz/Culture/Default.asp

ExKiwilass

Rubbish. Canada is also a bicultural nation (French/English) and some immigrants are even attracted by that. You can't generalize about millions of people like that - some of them might struggle with it, but if that's the way the country is presented to them then they have no choice but to accept it and adapt, or not come here. THousands do anyway.

ExKiwilass

I agree. And in addition, I"m so tired of British people trying to brush colonalization under the carpet. An inconvenient truth indeed. Instead of running away from it maybe you could face it and learn from it and try and develop some compassion instead.

simonsi

Sorry, British colonialisation wasn't done in my name, I wasn't there, didn't vote on it.

I'm no more personally responsible for it than any other systemic malaise on the planet.

That isn't to say elements of populations don't feel wronged by the past - but that is different to saying those on the other side are still responsible for the past.