Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Jun 5th 2011, 4:41 pm
#46
Home Sweet Home
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 5,128
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
One of my best friends is Maori, and I have never, ever heard of this, maybe I just never sat on her table? 
Jun 5th 2011, 5:00 pm
#47
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
My 43 year old Kiwi husband has never heard of this tradition and recalls many of his Maori friends at high school sitting on dining tables during break.
He grew up in Ngaruawahia which is where Turangawaewae Marae is. Official home of the late Maori queen. I guess our equivalent would be Windsor Castle.
He cannot recall any traditions or cultural taboos that caused problems and both Maori and Pakeha live happily along side each other.
He grew up in Ngaruawahia which is where Turangawaewae Marae is. Official home of the late Maori queen. I guess our equivalent would be Windsor Castle.
He cannot recall any traditions or cultural taboos that caused problems and both Maori and Pakeha live happily along side each other.
I think he's of the generation that missed all this stuff. I'm old enough to remember when sitting on tables wasn't an issue, then all of a sudden it was.
Jun 5th 2011, 6:48 pm
#48
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 250
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
I remember this when I was liasing with a lot of Maori agencies whilst in Christchurch. Apparently its about respecting the food therefore putting your arse where food goes isnt very nice. Its like putting your feet on the table. However I think its probaby the way its been said rather than what was said esp given it was a baby. You can have traditions and uphold them but its about how you do it no wonder there is prejudice in the world.
Jun 5th 2011, 6:55 pm
#49
Nottingham
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: nottingham
Posts: 119
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
hi there scousebird, you hopeful about 7th June ? sorry totally off the subject.
Jun 5th 2011, 6:58 pm
#50
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Oz -> UK -> San Diego
Posts: 9,912
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Whilst I can empathise with your reaction over this (I have been on the receiving end of a similar lecture although from an identifiable Maori man, and in a college classroom not a cafe), especially given your child's age, I can also see it from the other perspective. Given that you were in an environment specifically used for food consumption, and that the reason sitting on tables is tapu is related in part to the possible contamination of food I am not surprised that someone spoke to you about it.
I'm not saying that I agree with the woman, just that I can see why some people would feel the need to mention it.
Was she a member of staff or another customer? If a customer I think it could have been better handled if she raised her concerns with staff rather than directly with you - then it would be up to them as to whether they wanted to make an issue of it, it's their business afterall.
I find it interesting that you assumed she was pakeha based on her hair colour. I know several European looking people who identify as being Maori!
I'm not saying that I agree with the woman, just that I can see why some people would feel the need to mention it.
Was she a member of staff or another customer? If a customer I think it could have been better handled if she raised her concerns with staff rather than directly with you - then it would be up to them as to whether they wanted to make an issue of it, it's their business afterall.
I find it interesting that you assumed she was pakeha based on her hair colour. I know several European looking people who identify as being Maori!
It's culturally insensitive in Britain and in Australia. Or in my Mum's words, simply bad manners. This said, if this is the worse thing that happens to you this month, it will be a good one
Jun 5th 2011, 10:12 pm
#52
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 588
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
*sigh*
Last edited by Woodpigeon; Jun 5th 2011 at 10:14 pm. Reason: Over it actually, can't be bothered
Jun 5th 2011, 10:13 pm
#53
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 0
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
I assume it's culturally insensitive to dance on tables too....what a shame. A significant number of my Kiwi friends do that 
.
Shame it's not tapu to beat the living crap out of babies
.Shame it's not tapu to beat the living crap out of babies
Jun 5th 2011, 10:35 pm
#54
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,208
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Interesting article from the Sunday Star Times here regarding the very same issue.
Jun 5th 2011, 10:40 pm
#55
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 526
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
HaHaHa! .. I've usually found that I know more about NZ history than most Maori. And yes I do respect Maori culture(when its not invented) ... Just wish Maori would understand that theirs is not the only culture in NZ!
Jun 6th 2011, 3:13 am
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,008
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
You just can't help it can you Robbie ? "I do respect the maori culture when it is not invented." You know nothing about Tikanga Maori, you have made that quite clear, so how the heck would you know when it is made up ?Have you ever stopped long enough to work out why some Maori do not know or have not been brought up within their own culture ?
Maori is not the only culture but NZ is a Bi Cultural country and IMHO a bit of respect for both of those cultures is warranted, not just one.
Seeing as I have never heard of this 'sitting on tables' as being offensive to Kiwi's then how about someone making a sensible list of what else is unacceptable in NZ instead of arguing as to who first used tables for what! (believed to be very early Egyptians).
Stormer, normally I would post a list of Maori values and concepts and in fact I did post two in relation to the topic. It appears to have been ignored and the following posts in the main have been what I consider condescending sneers.
I am not about to expose my heritage to that sorry. I am sure google could help.
Last edited by Bellasmum; Jun 6th 2011 at 3:18 am.
Jun 6th 2011, 3:31 am
#57
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Good call Bella's Mum.
I'm pretty sure most Maori know they're not the only culture in NZ, after all they were colonized and now speak English etc. A little bit of cultural awareness from pakeha isn't a big deal imo. I def. think it's been a hard shift for the older pakeha generations though - most of them grew up when the belief was that their culture was NZ culture and they had very little real knowledge of the Maori POV. For me and my friends the Treaty, biculturalism is not a hard concept to get our heads around, as we were young enough when it started really impacting society, but apparently it is for some emigrants. That's interesting considering they are coming to a new country, you'd think they'd be a bit more open minded?
Having said that, there should be more tolerance towards people who arrive in NZ and genuinely don't know. I've travelled a lot, it's quite possible to explain cultural taboos without humiliating people or putting them on the spot.
And FFS, cut a 20 month old kid some slack!
End of rant
I'm pretty sure most Maori know they're not the only culture in NZ, after all they were colonized and now speak English etc. A little bit of cultural awareness from pakeha isn't a big deal imo. I def. think it's been a hard shift for the older pakeha generations though - most of them grew up when the belief was that their culture was NZ culture and they had very little real knowledge of the Maori POV. For me and my friends the Treaty, biculturalism is not a hard concept to get our heads around, as we were young enough when it started really impacting society, but apparently it is for some emigrants. That's interesting considering they are coming to a new country, you'd think they'd be a bit more open minded?
Having said that, there should be more tolerance towards people who arrive in NZ and genuinely don't know. I've travelled a lot, it's quite possible to explain cultural taboos without humiliating people or putting them on the spot.
And FFS, cut a 20 month old kid some slack! End of rant
Last edited by ExKiwilass; Jun 6th 2011 at 3:42 am.
Jun 6th 2011, 4:12 am
#58
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,240
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
Both sheep and cows?
If we are going to reflect on cultures can we be careful, the two following definitions taken from the Oxford English dictionary hint at the problem. If you wanted to describe Western culture this might fit:
However Maori culture would be better described with:
So when we say "culture" do we mean the former or latter definition?
Also pretending New Zealand is multi-cultural is a canard. We are predominatly of a Western culture and live accordingly. There is only the residual values of those cultures Western culture assimilated left and New Zealanders are a varied lot in that regard, not just British and Maori (You history forgetting racists!
) but Pacific island cultures, Chinese, Dutch, Indian etc.
I don't know about you but to me the idea that one group might want to impose it's residual culture over those of any other is just silly. You might choose to respect aspects of Chinese or Maori or British culture in the presence of people from that background but we are predominatly Westerners and behave accordingly.
Any objections?
If we are going to reflect on cultures can we be careful, the two following definitions taken from the Oxford English dictionary hint at the problem. If you wanted to describe Western culture this might fit:
The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.
Also pretending New Zealand is multi-cultural is a canard. We are predominatly of a Western culture and live accordingly. There is only the residual values of those cultures Western culture assimilated left and New Zealanders are a varied lot in that regard, not just British and Maori (You history forgetting racists!
) but Pacific island cultures, Chinese, Dutch, Indian etc. I don't know about you but to me the idea that one group might want to impose it's residual culture over those of any other is just silly. You might choose to respect aspects of Chinese or Maori or British culture in the presence of people from that background but we are predominatly Westerners and behave accordingly
.Any objections?
Jun 6th 2011, 4:14 am
#59
Truth is the safest lie.
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,240
Jun 6th 2011, 4:55 am
#60
Old Jerk
Joined: May 2011
Location: hawkes bay
Posts: 45
Re: Just been accused of being "culturally insensitive"!
You just can't help it can you Robbie ? "I do respect the maori culture when it is not invented." You know nothing about Tikanga Maori, you have made that quite clear, so how the heck would you know when it is made up ?Have you ever stopped long enough to work out why some Maori do not know or have not been brought up within their own culture ?
Maori is not the only culture but NZ is a Bi Cultural country and IMHO a bit of respect for both of those cultures is warranted, not just one.
Seeing as I have never heard of this 'sitting on tables' as being offensive to Kiwi's then how about someone making a sensible list of what else is unacceptable in NZ instead of arguing as to who first used tables for what! (believed to be very early Egyptians).
Stormer, normally I would post a list of Maori values and concepts and in fact I did post two in relation to the topic. It appears to have been ignored and the following posts in the main have been what I consider condescending sneers.
I am not about to expose my heritage to that sorry. I am sure google could help.
