Jobs
Jan 28th 2011, 1:40 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Jobs
Hello everyone,
As some of you know, I am considering a move to Dunedin.
Well, I have recently lost my job in Glasgow. I found it utterly confusing. I am not from the UK originally and I really want to know if New Zealand's culture is one that I will be able to navigate more successfully - or if my job was simply weird, and unrelated to British culture.
Where I worked, people loved to talk behind your back. One day, I was called by the temp agency I worked for and asked to 'put on my trenchcoat' and work with it on. I asked why, and they told me because I was wearing inappropriate clothing. (I was wearing a very pretty dress that I'd worn the year before at Christmas with my family). They said that 'the client' had told them it was 'see-through'. It wasn't. They called me all day long, saying 'the client' had threatened all sorts of things - sending me home, etc. It was also the only day on which my co-workers talked to me (later it seemed they had only done this in a high-school sort of giggling way of looking at my clothes and laughing at me behind my back). The office was very hot, so I couldn't wear my coat, and nobody besides me could do my job, so I couldn't go home. It turned out, at the end of the day, when I called my boss - that they felt my dress had been too low-cut. It had a button I could have easily buttoned - but instead of my boss simply telling me this, and resolving it in an instant - they harassed me all day long and I was in tears by the end of it.
There were also several people who believed that they were very important, and would be extremely rude and demanding about what they wanted from me. There were others who believed they were my superiors (they weren't) and would tell me what to do, or tell on me (for instance, I was once eating a sandwich at my desk - and although everyone else at the office did this, they felt that it was necessary to report me).
I did my job, I was polite, efficient, etc. For the entirety of this job, however, I was stressed out and paranoid all the time. There was even a point where a union worker approached me and said I should join the union. Four people within my job team quit during the time I was there. Then, when I was let go, I was given only one day of warning.
I have never been treated like that at a job in my life. It was the most disrespectful, frustrating position I have ever been in. Some of my British friends tell me that it has to do with class, and that because I don't recognize class differences, I have a lot of problems. Where I grew up, and all the places I've ever worked, were very straightforward and the people were friendly. This was my only long-term experience of working in Britain so far.
My question is: is this a normal working environment in Britain? Is the work environment in New Zealand similar? Should I expect this type of treatment no matter where I go?
As some of you know, I am considering a move to Dunedin.
Well, I have recently lost my job in Glasgow. I found it utterly confusing. I am not from the UK originally and I really want to know if New Zealand's culture is one that I will be able to navigate more successfully - or if my job was simply weird, and unrelated to British culture.
Where I worked, people loved to talk behind your back. One day, I was called by the temp agency I worked for and asked to 'put on my trenchcoat' and work with it on. I asked why, and they told me because I was wearing inappropriate clothing. (I was wearing a very pretty dress that I'd worn the year before at Christmas with my family). They said that 'the client' had told them it was 'see-through'. It wasn't. They called me all day long, saying 'the client' had threatened all sorts of things - sending me home, etc. It was also the only day on which my co-workers talked to me (later it seemed they had only done this in a high-school sort of giggling way of looking at my clothes and laughing at me behind my back). The office was very hot, so I couldn't wear my coat, and nobody besides me could do my job, so I couldn't go home. It turned out, at the end of the day, when I called my boss - that they felt my dress had been too low-cut. It had a button I could have easily buttoned - but instead of my boss simply telling me this, and resolving it in an instant - they harassed me all day long and I was in tears by the end of it.
There were also several people who believed that they were very important, and would be extremely rude and demanding about what they wanted from me. There were others who believed they were my superiors (they weren't) and would tell me what to do, or tell on me (for instance, I was once eating a sandwich at my desk - and although everyone else at the office did this, they felt that it was necessary to report me).
I did my job, I was polite, efficient, etc. For the entirety of this job, however, I was stressed out and paranoid all the time. There was even a point where a union worker approached me and said I should join the union. Four people within my job team quit during the time I was there. Then, when I was let go, I was given only one day of warning.
I have never been treated like that at a job in my life. It was the most disrespectful, frustrating position I have ever been in. Some of my British friends tell me that it has to do with class, and that because I don't recognize class differences, I have a lot of problems. Where I grew up, and all the places I've ever worked, were very straightforward and the people were friendly. This was my only long-term experience of working in Britain so far.
My question is: is this a normal working environment in Britain? Is the work environment in New Zealand similar? Should I expect this type of treatment no matter where I go?
Jan 28th 2011, 8:09 pm
#2
HAPPY AS...
Joined: May 2006
Location: Taupo
Posts: 1,068
Re: Jobs
Sorry to hear about your work experience.
I would say that you may find the NZ culture slightly difficult to settle into. The constantly used phrase of HTFU has to applied. It reminds me of Army banter, and if you show an emotional weakness or similar, work mates here will try to exploit it.
I'm not criticising, it's just the way of life, and if you can't get on with, then you'll be unhappy.
It's hard to explain, and I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just the way here.
I would say that you may find the NZ culture slightly difficult to settle into. The constantly used phrase of HTFU has to applied. It reminds me of Army banter, and if you show an emotional weakness or similar, work mates here will try to exploit it.
I'm not criticising, it's just the way of life, and if you can't get on with, then you'll be unhappy.
It's hard to explain, and I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just the way here.
Jan 28th 2011, 8:38 pm
#3
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Re: Jobs
I've been a sailor - I don't care if people are noisy or rude. I really dislike people being incredibly fake, though, and whispering behind each other's back. If that's what it's like, no, I won't like it in New Zealand. I also don't believe that it's merely a case of 'toughening up' - that was a very hostile work environment and not an experience I care to repeat. Considering the four people who quit, I am pretty certain they don't want to repeat it either.
Last edited by fluffy; Jan 28th 2011 at 8:40 pm.
Jan 28th 2011, 10:28 pm
#4
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 588
Re: Jobs
Sorry to hear about your work experience.
I would say that you may find the NZ culture slightly difficult to settle into. The constantly used phrase of HTFU has to applied. It reminds me of Army banter, and if you show an emotional weakness or similar, work mates here will try to exploit it.
I'm not criticising, it's just the way of life, and if you can't get on with, then you'll be unhappy.
It's hard to explain, and I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just the way here.
I would say that you may find the NZ culture slightly difficult to settle into. The constantly used phrase of HTFU has to applied. It reminds me of Army banter, and if you show an emotional weakness or similar, work mates here will try to exploit it.
I'm not criticising, it's just the way of life, and if you can't get on with, then you'll be unhappy.
It's hard to explain, and I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just the way here.
One thing that I think most ex-pats here have experienced is that kiwis don't like being told that there is a better way of doing something by an ex-pat, especially if it is done in a 'we always did it like this where I come from' manner.
Also, there is the 'it's not what you know it's who you know' culture - but even that can be got round if you are prepared to be patient and maybe start lower down the ladder than you would expect to have to.
Kiwi work-place culture is different from the British one, in my experience. One thing I have had difficulty adjusting to is the relationship between general staff and managers. You have to become adapt at reading the situation and working out when a manager is seeing you as a person, or 'equal' and when they are seeing you as a member of their staff and 'inferior' - in other words, when you can be informal with them and when you have to show the sort of respect that I was used to always showing managers in the UK.
The other thing to remember is that, like the rest of the world, NZ is experiencing a resession. There are more people looking for work than there are jobs. Some employers are using this to exploite employees using the 'if you want to keep your job you'll put up with anything' mentality (as was the case in my third personal experience above). I never felt that I had to HTFU, just that I had to keep my head down, and work on containing my stress levels until the situation improved or a way out appeared. I stuck it out for 9 months before being lucky enough to stumble across a job that I was well qualified for with a manager and staff who I already knew
.
Feb 2nd 2011, 9:18 am
#5
Banned
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 183
Re: Jobs
Its sad to hear about your situation and I wish you all the best. NZ is a pretty friendly place with professional work ethic in the workplace. I know a lot of immigrants to NZ who are close firends of mine without any work problems and its been 4 years or more so far.
Its really sad to hear of your situation, given you seem like a very decent individual. Hey, give NZ a try.
Look you just need to be a bit assertive and aggressive in a good way. There are sometimes a******* that you meet at work. You need to be able to make it clear you won't tolerate crap and consider other work options if the workplace is not right.
I wish you all the best.
Its really sad to hear of your situation, given you seem like a very decent individual. Hey, give NZ a try.
Look you just need to be a bit assertive and aggressive in a good way. There are sometimes a******* that you meet at work. You need to be able to make it clear you won't tolerate crap and consider other work options if the workplace is not right.
I wish you all the best.
Hello everyone,
As some of you know, I am considering a move to Dunedin.
Well, I have recently lost my job in Glasgow. I found it utterly confusing. I am not from the UK originally and I really want to know if New Zealand's culture is one that I will be able to navigate more successfully - or if my job was simply weird, and unrelated to British culture.
Where I worked, people loved to talk behind your back. One day, I was called by the temp agency I worked for and asked to 'put on my trenchcoat' and work with it on. I asked why, and they told me because I was wearing inappropriate clothing. (I was wearing a very pretty dress that I'd worn the year before at Christmas with my family). They said that 'the client' had told them it was 'see-through'. It wasn't. They called me all day long, saying 'the client' had threatened all sorts of things - sending me home, etc. It was also the only day on which my co-workers talked to me (later it seemed they had only done this in a high-school sort of giggling way of looking at my clothes and laughing at me behind my back). The office was very hot, so I couldn't wear my coat, and nobody besides me could do my job, so I couldn't go home. It turned out, at the end of the day, when I called my boss - that they felt my dress had been too low-cut. It had a button I could have easily buttoned - but instead of my boss simply telling me this, and resolving it in an instant - they harassed me all day long and I was in tears by the end of it.
There were also several people who believed that they were very important, and would be extremely rude and demanding about what they wanted from me. There were others who believed they were my superiors (they weren't) and would tell me what to do, or tell on me (for instance, I was once eating a sandwich at my desk - and although everyone else at the office did this, they felt that it was necessary to report me).
I did my job, I was polite, efficient, etc. For the entirety of this job, however, I was stressed out and paranoid all the time. There was even a point where a union worker approached me and said I should join the union. Four people within my job team quit during the time I was there. Then, when I was let go, I was given only one day of warning.
I have never been treated like that at a job in my life. It was the most disrespectful, frustrating position I have ever been in. Some of my British friends tell me that it has to do with class, and that because I don't recognize class differences, I have a lot of problems. Where I grew up, and all the places I've ever worked, were very straightforward and the people were friendly. This was my only long-term experience of working in Britain so far.
My question is: is this a normal working environment in Britain? Is the work environment in New Zealand similar? Should I expect this type of treatment no matter where I go?
As some of you know, I am considering a move to Dunedin.
Well, I have recently lost my job in Glasgow. I found it utterly confusing. I am not from the UK originally and I really want to know if New Zealand's culture is one that I will be able to navigate more successfully - or if my job was simply weird, and unrelated to British culture.
Where I worked, people loved to talk behind your back. One day, I was called by the temp agency I worked for and asked to 'put on my trenchcoat' and work with it on. I asked why, and they told me because I was wearing inappropriate clothing. (I was wearing a very pretty dress that I'd worn the year before at Christmas with my family). They said that 'the client' had told them it was 'see-through'. It wasn't. They called me all day long, saying 'the client' had threatened all sorts of things - sending me home, etc. It was also the only day on which my co-workers talked to me (later it seemed they had only done this in a high-school sort of giggling way of looking at my clothes and laughing at me behind my back). The office was very hot, so I couldn't wear my coat, and nobody besides me could do my job, so I couldn't go home. It turned out, at the end of the day, when I called my boss - that they felt my dress had been too low-cut. It had a button I could have easily buttoned - but instead of my boss simply telling me this, and resolving it in an instant - they harassed me all day long and I was in tears by the end of it.
There were also several people who believed that they were very important, and would be extremely rude and demanding about what they wanted from me. There were others who believed they were my superiors (they weren't) and would tell me what to do, or tell on me (for instance, I was once eating a sandwich at my desk - and although everyone else at the office did this, they felt that it was necessary to report me).
I did my job, I was polite, efficient, etc. For the entirety of this job, however, I was stressed out and paranoid all the time. There was even a point where a union worker approached me and said I should join the union. Four people within my job team quit during the time I was there. Then, when I was let go, I was given only one day of warning.
I have never been treated like that at a job in my life. It was the most disrespectful, frustrating position I have ever been in. Some of my British friends tell me that it has to do with class, and that because I don't recognize class differences, I have a lot of problems. Where I grew up, and all the places I've ever worked, were very straightforward and the people were friendly. This was my only long-term experience of working in Britain so far.
My question is: is this a normal working environment in Britain? Is the work environment in New Zealand similar? Should I expect this type of treatment no matter where I go?
Feb 2nd 2011, 9:27 am
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 2,077
Re: Jobs
I,m going to have to see a piccy of you in the dress before i can comment 
Neil
Neil
Feb 2nd 2011, 9:47 am
#7
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Re: Jobs
If I'd known who it was, I'd have confronted them. It was the vague and underhanded behaviour that confused me. I'm a very straightforward person, very assertive - and that was one of the problems, apparently. Thanks for thinking I'm a decent person. 
Anyway, I posted this just after I had to leave my job, and I had been on the point of walking out many times. I stayed til the end of the contract, and looking back on it I think I should have walked earlier.
I have a couple of other New Zealand friends *really* discouraging me from going there - they say it's expensive, I'd be lonely, etc, and some other people saying that a PhD from there will not be looked upon favourably. So I've been less sure about moving there.
Unfortunately I have no pictures of myself in that particular outfit.
Anyway, I posted this just after I had to leave my job, and I had been on the point of walking out many times. I stayed til the end of the contract, and looking back on it I think I should have walked earlier.
I have a couple of other New Zealand friends *really* discouraging me from going there - they say it's expensive, I'd be lonely, etc, and some other people saying that a PhD from there will not be looked upon favourably. So I've been less sure about moving there.
Unfortunately I have no pictures of myself in that particular outfit.
Last edited by fluffy; Feb 2nd 2011 at 9:51 am.
Feb 2nd 2011, 9:53 pm
#8
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,611
Re: Jobs
I've been a sailor - I don't care if people are noisy or rude. I really dislike people being incredibly fake, though, and whispering behind each other's back. If that's what it's like, no, I won't like it in New Zealand. I also don't believe that it's merely a case of 'toughening up' - that was a very hostile work environment and not an experience I care to repeat. Considering the four people who quit, I am pretty certain they don't want to repeat it either.
My husband says he has never come across such a bunch of gossips as the blokes he works with now.
Oh - and your British friends were talking utter rubbish. It's bugger all to do with 'class' & everything to do with individuals whether it be in a work environment or not.
BTW I can't understand why you didn't simply go talk with the client and work out a compromise & why you didn't cotton on to do up your dress straight away.
Feb 3rd 2011, 1:26 am
#9
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 455
Re: Jobs
Excellent comments from Woodpigeon. I agree that workplace relationships really depend on the culture of the company and the people working there. Like Bev said, there will always be gossips no matter where you work. The good news is that Dunedin is a very friendly place, commonly referred to as a 'student town' due to the central university which draws people from all around the country.
Another point is that NZ has strong employment laws which carry heavy penalties for things like workplace bullying and requires fair treatment of employees - being given 1 days dismissal notice would not be acceptable (although we now have the 90 day rule, but that still requires fair treatment).
Like is too short to work for an employer that doesn't respect you, or where you are not happy. Sounds like you are good at what you do, so next time tell them they are making you unhappy and ask them to discuss any problems with you (regardless of which country you are living in).
Another point is that NZ has strong employment laws which carry heavy penalties for things like workplace bullying and requires fair treatment of employees - being given 1 days dismissal notice would not be acceptable (although we now have the 90 day rule, but that still requires fair treatment).
Like is too short to work for an employer that doesn't respect you, or where you are not happy. Sounds like you are good at what you do, so next time tell them they are making you unhappy and ask them to discuss any problems with you (regardless of which country you are living in).
Feb 3rd 2011, 6:48 am
#11
Near the outer fringe
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Porirua
Posts: 466
Re: Jobs
Much as I disliked aspects of my job in the UK, it sounds like you just got in with a dodgy bunch of people. There's a wide variety of employment environments everywhere. My colleagues here have (so far) been fine.
I think the comments about 'class' are rubbish too. I've never come across 'class' as being a particularly big issue in England, though to be fair I worked in a professional environment where what you could do mattered more than who you were, what you looked like or where you were from.
Working in an environment of mainly men, I could understand the arrival of a young pretty temp in flattering clothing might create a bit of a shock, but not necessarily complaints...
As far as I'm concerned regarding clothing. Women should wear boring clothes to work just for the sake of equality. Don't see why it should just be men that have to do it!! (Joke alert)
You don't mention if the people complaining were men or women. Perhaps it was just jealousy.
I think the comments about 'class' are rubbish too. I've never come across 'class' as being a particularly big issue in England, though to be fair I worked in a professional environment where what you could do mattered more than who you were, what you looked like or where you were from.
Working in an environment of mainly men, I could understand the arrival of a young pretty temp in flattering clothing might create a bit of a shock, but not necessarily complaints...
As far as I'm concerned regarding clothing. Women should wear boring clothes to work just for the sake of equality. Don't see why it should just be men that have to do it!! (Joke alert)
You don't mention if the people complaining were men or women. Perhaps it was just jealousy.
Feb 3rd 2011, 8:57 am
#12
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
Re: Jobs
Hi everyone,
Bevs: Regarding why I didn't know what the issue was with my dress: back home I had worn it several times to work, to family gatherings, etc. Nobody said a word about it, and when I asked the temp agency what the client said was wrong, they said it was transparent (it wasn't). The issue was that *nobody at the actual workplace* discussed it with me - they were having my agency call me and the inital complaint was lodged with my line manager who worked in Edinburgh at that time. That meant nobody who could actually see me could tell me what the problem was.
The workplace was primarily female with a few men. Some of the workers had overheard what was going on and were upset at how I was being treated, which was why they had me talk to the guy from the union (they complained on my behalf). The same workers pointed out that most women in that workplace wore much more revealing clothing than I did that day. This was just one incident in a long string of weirdness that happened at that particular job. I didn't want to leave it because I didn't want to be unemployed (as I now am), but I now think life's too short to be in a job where I'm unhappy. As chc4me says, I was also very surprised at the short notice I was given, so I am hoping that if I do end up going to NZ employment will be a bit different.
The thing is, if you spend every day in an environment like that for months, you start to wonder if there's a reason for the puzzling behaviour or if they are just insane. For example, they frequently got into screaming matches over milk for the tea, and were upset to the point of printing out and leaving very angry messages on the refrigerator for each other about it. Since I have never worked anywhere like that, I assumed that perhaps this was something I would have to get used to in the British workplace - but it is good to hear JohnthePom say that I probably just got in with a dodgy bunch!
Maybe I should go back to sailing.
Hard labour seems a lot less stressful these days.
Bevs: Regarding why I didn't know what the issue was with my dress: back home I had worn it several times to work, to family gatherings, etc. Nobody said a word about it, and when I asked the temp agency what the client said was wrong, they said it was transparent (it wasn't). The issue was that *nobody at the actual workplace* discussed it with me - they were having my agency call me and the inital complaint was lodged with my line manager who worked in Edinburgh at that time. That meant nobody who could actually see me could tell me what the problem was.
The workplace was primarily female with a few men. Some of the workers had overheard what was going on and were upset at how I was being treated, which was why they had me talk to the guy from the union (they complained on my behalf). The same workers pointed out that most women in that workplace wore much more revealing clothing than I did that day. This was just one incident in a long string of weirdness that happened at that particular job. I didn't want to leave it because I didn't want to be unemployed (as I now am), but I now think life's too short to be in a job where I'm unhappy. As chc4me says, I was also very surprised at the short notice I was given, so I am hoping that if I do end up going to NZ employment will be a bit different.
The thing is, if you spend every day in an environment like that for months, you start to wonder if there's a reason for the puzzling behaviour or if they are just insane. For example, they frequently got into screaming matches over milk for the tea, and were upset to the point of printing out and leaving very angry messages on the refrigerator for each other about it. Since I have never worked anywhere like that, I assumed that perhaps this was something I would have to get used to in the British workplace - but it is good to hear JohnthePom say that I probably just got in with a dodgy bunch!
Maybe I should go back to sailing.
Hard labour seems a lot less stressful these days.
Last edited by fluffy; Feb 3rd 2011 at 9:05 am.
Feb 3rd 2011, 9:12 am
#13
HAPPY AS...
Joined: May 2006
Location: Taupo
Posts: 1,068
Re: Jobs
aaaaah now, sailing, now that's access to a whole new world of happy smiley people.
Get here, dump the career, and sail backpackers about for huge sums all day
Get here, dump the career, and sail backpackers about for huge sums all day
