Beaverstate

Well Iv'e never seen government costs go down, so....

Robbie2010

They only make greater demands on health services while they are ... alive!

But, as they die many years before non smokers it probably evens out.

They also make less demands on pensions as loads die before they can draw it!

Bo-Jangles

Such double standards. I have been both a drinker and a smoker in early adult years and quite often enjoyed both together. I've long since stopped the smokes and rarely drink these days.

I don't know anyone who had a day of work after a hard night on the fags. At least cigarette smokers are generally a peaceful kind, they don't have their mind altered or personality changed by their drug of choice, hardly likely to be a danger to others on the roads due to overdoing it on the nicotine consumption. I've yet to see a cigarette smoker become violent because someone looked at them a bit funny, act like an arse, become abusive, lie cheat and steal to get their fix, cause fights and want to take on the world.

Yet alcohol is widely accepted and available in most homes; advertised all over the place and anyone who consumes vast amounts of alcohol generally gets big pats, is considered to be a good laugh, one of the lads and an all round jolly good fella.

Bemused_and_bewildered

I take your point but I have to say that I have known smokers take more than a day off with smoking related illnesses AND witnessed unpleasant personality changes in those deprived of nicotine, including abusiveness, lying, cheating and acting like an arse.

Sorry but a drug's a drug and although the health benefits of moderate drinking are now well established there is no such evidence for moderate smoking. I am a drinker and was a smoker (and greatly enjoyed it, too) but my favourite fix is chocolate and I'm well aware of the dangers of letting that get out of hand! Let's not try to justify smoking in terms of freedom of the individual either. I spent too many years of my childhood and teenage being a victim of second hand smoke. Nobody tried to force alcohol down my throat, though.

Leither

Using your £4k average tax bill then the "average" wage will be about £28,105 (not sure about that but let's assume it is). You've failed to take account of NI which will come to roughly £2,200 giving a total of £6,200. If your figure of 20% of taxation going into the health pot is accurate then the "average" smoker will be throwing in £1,240 per year. However, cigarettes are taxed and the average smoker will be paying another £2,112 inot the pot, according to this giving a total of £3,352.

So, I think the government does quite well out of smokers otherwise they'd ban it. As for demands on the health system: I've had 2 days off work in the last 3 years - neither of which have been smoking related. I've also been to the doctor/ health centre twice in the last 8 years. The first time was at their invitation becasue I had reached a certain age and they wanted to prod and poke me to check blood pressure, BMI, heart, check for diabetes etc. Much to the nurse's surprise I sailed through it so her opportunities to lecture me were somewhat limited. The next time was about 2 months ago for a frozen shoulder. I have had 4 or 5 short physio sessions and am about to finish them so my cost to the health service has been in the order of a couple of hundred quid and none of it smoking related. I'm not claiming it's not unhealthy or that there isn't a cost but I think the government makes a "profit" from it.

Drinking is a different kettle of fish. The costs associated with it are horrendous even if you look at just the costs in A & E as you have pointed out. My old mum was also a nurse and had to deal withe same crap as yours and would tell me the horror stories associated with the demon drink and the evil weed.

BTW: with your occupations/activities you'd be as well taking up the fags, they're less risky.

sparkie down under

I like the way you are thinking (?) here.

So by the same logic, make all drugs legal, tax them heavily; the users shall have a short life span, but during that short life they will have paid into the system more than enough to cover their costs and the costs of others

sparkie down under

Leither, wooo, cyber fight (tehe)

Quite correct I did forget to add in to the equation NI, (forgot all about NI actually):

I'll happily accept your figure £3.352, 'cos I think the average smoker would soon use up that much in health care easily, (once they become ill of course).

Personally I'm happy that you are in excellent health, wouldn't wish ill health on anyone - well actually only a few, (but then I am bitter and twisted). But don't worry, you're not one.

It's amazing how many smokers have excellent health, or would have you believe they do. And I'm sure that some do.

Grandfather, smoked since the day he went down the pit at 14 - lived until 82, and smoked almost every day of that life. Did he have good health? No Every morning would cough up phlegm, which he blamed on the pit of course, (and could be right). My father lived until he was 65 and only smoked in his younger years, good health, no, smoking related - maybe.

My point is that for everyone that is ok and in good health there are more that aren't and if just £3,352 is raised by tax then I can't see that being enough to cover their health needs.

Ding ding, seconds out round two

Now as for drink, well there certainly seems to be a consensus of opinion on this one.

Drink has been around since man first stood upright. IMHO It will never banned. The US tried that one and ended up making more alcoholics, gangsters and blackmarketers that it ever had before. An approach of education and taxation is perhaps the best approach, but hey what do I know

And talking of drink, did anyone see close up last night. Kay road? WTF was all that about?

I mean don't get me wrong, when I was younger I did, on the odd occasion (mainly days that started with F), have a few shandies and there may have been the odd occasion when I, through the sheer exhaustion of a weeks work, sort the comfort of a park bench but those people there, they were well wasted, more than I ever was, or am I think back with rose tinted glasses. Was it like that when we were young?

bga

.. you can't "ban" anything that people want, weather you or I like it/agree with it or not is irrelevant, the point was made about prohibition - the legacy of that folly is that the Mafia sprung up and is still here today, If I was of the mind to I can go into town and get "banned" substances very easily - banning tobacco gives todays drug dealers another product to sell, and one that would be extreamly lucrative due to the obviously high addictive qualities of it. Its not pleasant but the so called "War on Drugs" has been an absolute failure.

Agree wholeheartedly about the perception of Alcohol, the most widespread cause of any social woes and regarded as an innocent pastime by most - double standards absolutely

simonmarkellis

No... not when i was young... pubs shut at 11pm and clubs wouldn't let you in if you were tanked up...

Nowadays it's 24 hr drinking and clubs/pubs aren't concerned about your state of entry only the money in your pocket...

Leither

Here is a link to the revenue raised on cigarettes and tobacco. These are verifiable facts with the latest showing about £12bn per year.

There are a number of reports showing the costs to the NHS related to smoking. These range from £1bn to £5bn and I take many of them with a pinch of salt. I can imagine someone being diagnosed with cancer and not being a smoker but the "smoking related" box will get ticked because it is a disease related with cancer. Similarly, someone going to the hospital with a migraine being asked if they are a smoker and getting the "smoking related" box ticked.

Either way the government make a "profit" from smoking. I must add that in no way do I contribute to the £12bn raised from tobacco. Since the ban on smoking in public places I have only purchased about 3 packs in this country. 3 or 4 trips abroad each year take care of my cigarette needs. When it comes to cigarette tax the taxman and a pelican have lots in common: they can both stick their bills up their hoop.

Plus the Grrek and Spanish governments probably need the wedge more than ours.

Bemused_and_bewildered

That's just rubbish! Your imagination is running away with you.

Leither

No. The frothy mouthed zealots who blame smoking for everything have allowed their imagination to run away with them.

One of the latest things being attributed to smoking is the rise in the number of diabetics. Perhaps I am dense but the number of smokers have decreased dramatically over the last 30 years whilst the number of diabetics have risen dramatically so how is that conclusion reached? Of course it's nothing to do with the exponential increase in the number of porkers.

Chris-Napier

I was a smoker for many years, then stopped for about 20+ years, only to start again about 12 years ago. That is my choice! I know the harm it can cause me and thankfully I have not visited a Dr for over 5 yrs. I have paid my taxes all my life and not been a burden to anyone! My only pleasure these days is to relax and have a smoke. In MY time and MY space. I never impose my habit or smoke on anyone else. But I am penalized by the rising cost. I notice that there was no rise in any drink prices. Yet, there are more problems with drinking and the cost to society is huge. WHY is this I wonder? WHY hit the smoker and not the drinker? So bloody unfair!! I think the comment about smuggling will happen here. People who want to smoke and just cannot afford to pay the prices here, will look elsewhere to buy them. It will happen as there is always a way!! No, I wont hold up the local dairy but there will be other ways soon I am sure. To try and make NZ 'smoke free' is so stupid, it just will never happen. It makes me so angry to be told what I can or cant do - can you imagine if they put the price of drink up each year by the same percentage? There would be a riot and yet the smoker just sits and accepts it - once again!!!! If the government want to be fair, then let us make NZ 'smoke and drink free'. Come on.....lets get real....NO WAY!!!

Bemused_and_bewildered

Strange, the last time I supervised a PhD about diabetes smoking was never mentioned...

bourbon-biscuit

I get in a proper rage when I see parents smoking in cars with kids in, and when I'm working with a kid who smells of fags. Unless you strictly smoke outside and wash your hands and face and clean your teeth before coming back in, your kids smell of fags. Nice.

I don't know why you'd defend smoking (though I can understand the pleasures of smoking- I did it in my late teens and sometimes still fantasise about a nice roll up and a coffee); "It's my life, I'll do as I please" doesn't really work when you expect everyone else to pick up the tab for you doing as you please.