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I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Old Nov 12th 2007, 8:33 am
  #46  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Bo-Jangles View Post
You don't? I have no axe to grind either way, but the fact that there are so many things which are deliberately seperated which doesn't exactly suggest to me a nation of people going forwards as one. Just a few that come to mind:
  • Maori Television
  • Seperate Maori schools and a university
  • Maori Party and special seats in Government that only Maori can vote for
  • Maori activists campaigning for independence and their own sovereignty
  • Maori flag
  • Special provisions made for things such as http://www.maorihealth.govt.nz/
  • NZ Maori rugby team

And that is a big deal ???
  • Good for the culture, no issues as long as they aren't talking about me
  • The schools are also a great idea, Maorii has lost its heritigate recently, its good to see that an effort is made so it's not forgotten. Didn't know anout the university
  • Well it is their country too, Maori need a voice in parliment to keep the Pakeha in check
  • This is taken a bit over the top really.
  • To identify the Maori people. Still see no big deal with that.
  • Special provisions made for things such as http://www.maorihealth.govt.nz/
    Good to see that healthcare is properly given to the Maori, unlike the Aboriginal to name an example.
  • NZ Maori rugby team
    Well they are the second best team in the world

It's not like the Maori are shunned away and forgotten about. There are issues The Maori do have but New Zealand in a whole try to resolve these issues. Obviously some ideas Maori have are a bit silly but in the whole we work, drink and play together with no real problems.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 8:45 am
  #47  
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 11:01 am
  #48  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

2 versions of the treaty - more than that. There is now basically 3 accepted versions of the Treaty.

1. English version
2. Maori version
3. And the one that is very interesting - the English translation of the Maori version.

Problem is that there are a few very interesting words in the english version which mean something quite different. Gist of it - Maori were told they were conceding governance (kawanatanga). The English version said that they were conceding Sovereignty.

Slight difference but important. Either way a founding document of this country was a bit screwy. Hehe no wonder we are all mad. Didn't stand a chance.

Personally, i found NZ history very interesting because of the Treaty - NZ was one of the only countries in the world (if not the only one) where the colonising nation actually did organise a treaty with a national body of chiefs rather than people representing certain pockets of a country.

This does however, kinda ignore the fact that some tribes didnt sign it. And there had already been a Declaration of Independence signed by some of the same and some different tribes a few years earlier. But oh well. they had different purposes.

Personally, when a big group of a country (regardless of the country or the ethnicity) is overrepresented on the bad side of the ledger (low income, healthcare, prison etc) and underrepresented in others (education, stable income, housing etc) then I see no real reason not to support that group. Whether that is based on ethnicity, gender, socioeconomics or whatever. If a huge and overrepresented demographic of, for instance, older Maori women aren't getting breast screening treatment because they live out in the wops and can't get to a Base or city hospital or don't like someone they don't know examining them (and therefore are more likely to die), then I have no problem with targeting that group to fix the problem. Actually that is quite a real example from a few years ago - i think from the East Coast. Turned out by targeting the Maori women in the very rural areas it actually encouraged other rural women to get examined.

What you will also find with many of those Maori services is that they are *not* exclusively for Maori, though the target audience is maori. A pakeha child can be enrolled in a kohanga reo or kura or a Pacific Island language nest (equiv. of a kohanga) if their parents choose to. In fact, my blond, blue eyed irish catholic (born Galway, came to NZ as a 2 year old) ex boyfriend started his NZ eduction at a kohanga reo instead of the local kindergarten. Obviously he wasn't my ex at the time... That would be weird Bit late at night so i am not quite thinking straight, but ya'll get my point hopefully.

Oops sorry, i promised I would stop with the ranting and lectures didn't I? :embaressed_smile: Wait til i get started on the history of heating and insulation of houses in NZ and why there is such a problem. I am not kidding!!! But it is too late and I am sleepy.

Last edited by Kiwiprincess; Nov 12th 2007 at 11:03 am.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 11:40 am
  #49  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

hi rob

good on you its always good to learn something new and especially doing it because you want to do it

hope your course goes well

with regards

kirstie
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Old Nov 13th 2007, 6:16 am
  #50  
 
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Kiwiprincess View Post
White or Non White? No don't like those terms at all. Doesn't say anything about you at all. Doesn't say that you are from NZ, from England, from Ireland or from Latvia. It doesnt say anything about a person's ethnic or national background.
R i g h t......so 'Pakeha' doesn't mean 'white'?

Funnily enough the EXACT same argument is in Japan...they have the term 'gaijin' which means, depending on one's viewpoint, 'non-Japanese', 'non-human', or 'white guy we all envy'

Seems similar here....

Again...surely the ideal situation is that people think of themselves as New Zealanders first, and then as their respective ethnic groups second....something which current news events and the whole 'pakeha-maori' thing suggests is not happening.

Or is it more complicated than that?
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Old Nov 13th 2007, 6:21 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
It's not like the Maori are shunned away and forgotten about. There are issues The Maori do have but New Zealand in a whole try to resolve these issues. Obviously some ideas Maori have are a bit silly but in the whole we work, drink and play together with no real problems.

Yes, it could never get as bad as Australia and the Aborigines.....could it?
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Old Nov 13th 2007, 6:24 am
  #52  
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Well they did stop shooting them in the 50's
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Old Nov 13th 2007, 6:30 am
  #53  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Avid View Post
R i g h t......so 'Pakeha' doesn't mean 'white'?

Funnily enough the EXACT same argument is in Japan...they have the term 'gaijin' which means, depending on one's viewpoint, 'non-Japanese', 'non-human', or 'white guy we all envy'

Seems similar here....

Again...surely the ideal situation is that people think of themselves as New Zealanders first, and then as their respective ethnic groups second....something which current news events and the whole 'pakeha-maori' thing suggests is not happening.

Or is it more complicated than that?
Aye ????

When you meet New Zealanders overseas and ask them where they are from they will reply New Zealand. On further investigation they will tell you whether they are Maori or Pakeha.

I for one, when asked, will say I'm a New Zealand Pakeha, I don't find it offensive.

In all forms of news all over the world they identify people by race, nationality or even location.
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Old Nov 14th 2007, 1:53 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
In all forms of news all over the world they identify people by race, nationality or even location.
Well it seems a redundant topic if today's edition of 'The Dominion Post' (aka 'The Police Gazette') is anything to go by.

While I've been busy debating the linguistic nuances of 'pakeha' the Maoris have been getting tooled up and are about to start WWIII if the headlines are to be believed...

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Old Nov 14th 2007, 3:43 am
  #55  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
When you meet New Zealanders overseas and ask them where they are from they will reply New Zealand. On further investigation they will tell you whether they are Maori or Pakeha.

I for one, when asked, will say I'm a New Zealand Pakeha.
I thought the term Pakeha was only used in New Zealand ?

Would imagine people overseas will ask what that means so what’s the point
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Old Nov 14th 2007, 8:18 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Campbells View Post
I thought the term Pakeha was only used in New Zealand ?

Would imagine people overseas will ask what that means so what’s the point

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Old Nov 14th 2007, 8:44 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Campbells View Post
I thought the term Pakeha was only used in New Zealand ?

Would imagine people overseas will ask what that means so what’s the point
So then you give them a bit of a run down about NZ and it's history. Not many people know much about NZ so I like to spread the word.
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Old Nov 14th 2007, 9:24 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
So then you give them a bit of a run down about NZ and it's history. Not many people know much about NZ so I like to spread the word.
I am from the Clan Campbell ( just incase you are interested ) and realised when I was in London that not too many English folk were interested in a Scottish history lesson !

Mind the gap
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Old Nov 14th 2007, 9:31 pm
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
And that is a big deal ???
  • Good for the culture, no issues as long as they aren't talking about me
  • The schools are also a great idea, Maorii has lost its heritigate recently, its good to see that an effort is made so it's not forgotten. Didn't know anout the university
  • Well it is their country too, Maori need a voice in parliment to keep the Pakeha in check
  • This is taken a bit over the top really.
  • To identify the Maori people. Still see no big deal with that.
  • Special provisions made for things such as http://www.maorihealth.govt.nz/
    Good to see that healthcare is properly given to the Maori, unlike the Aboriginal to name an example.
  • NZ Maori rugby team
    Well they are the second best team in the world

It's not like the Maori are shunned away and forgotten about. There are issues The Maori do have but New Zealand in a whole try to resolve these issues. Obviously some ideas Maori have are a bit silly but in the whole we work, drink and play together with no real problems.
I had to do a similar course, for part of my degree requirement, i must admit i did enjoy it, and it gave me a greater understanding of colonnisation. However, when I reflected on what I had learned I do think there should be a huge degree of self responsibility for one individuals life.
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Old Nov 14th 2007, 10:33 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Campbells View Post
I am from the Clan Campbell ( just incase you are interested ) and realised when I was in London that not too many English folk were interested in a Scottish history lesson !

Mind the gap
Well that was an obvious answer

Now if you said you were from Essex ..........
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