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I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Old Nov 12th 2007, 4:08 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post
Do you think NZ isn't moving on as ONE NATION ??? explain please.

I don't believe the Maori/ Pakeha thing is as big as you are making it out to be.
Well...will a bunch of white policemen dressed up as stormtroopers arresting Maoris for 'terrorism' be a flash in the pan or the shape of things to come?

Will the 15% of Maoris who left NZ because of (amongst other things) racism return and make NZ whole again?

This very thread....where a number of posters wondered why somebody would bother to study Maori culture....isn't that a sign of divisions?

The problems aren't that great at the moment, true, but the potential is there...and 'pakeha' is a word (and state of mind) that doesn't help much.

Last edited by Avid; Nov 12th 2007 at 4:10 am.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 4:16 am
  #32  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Avid View Post
Just a thought.
Is that allowed
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 4:25 am
  #33  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Did somebody mention captain ?
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 5:12 am
  #34  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Re the Moriori:

From reading a couple of sources it seems that the story of the Moriori being indeginous people of New Zealand who were killed or driven out by the Maori is actually a lie told by the European settlers to justify colonising New Zealand so that they could say "we're only doing what you yourselves did before"

100 years or so after Maori settlement in New Zealand a tribe left for the Chatham Islands, and they are the Moriori.

There is truth to the story though.

A raiding party of Taranaki Maori chartered European ships in the 1830s to the Chatham Islands and killed, enslaved and cannibalised most of the Moriori people, eventually leaving only 101 alive out of a population of 2000

http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm
http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealande...s/Moriori/1/en
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori
http://history-nz.org/moriori.html

In my experience the story is usually repeated by people trying to reinforce negative comments they've made about the Maori people.

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Old Nov 12th 2007, 5:52 am
  #35  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Avid View Post
Hmmm....yes.....but 'Maori' and 'Pakeha' are just clever ways of saying 'white' and 'non-white', aren't they? (Not including 'non-white non-Maoris' of course...they tend to get called 'asians').

Now..if New Zealanders want to keep living as if it's 1770 and Captain Cook has just turned up, then that's fine...but if they want to move on as ONE NATION then they'd might want to perhaps think about stopping the act of characterising each other in racial terms.

Just a thought.
Part of the problem is though that for many years Maori, especially those in the Native Schools (hehe showing my history bent here) were told not to be outwardly Maori. Language, customs, whanau structures etc were if not lost, then at least severely weakened.

There are many reasons for this and it should be noted that it wasn't just a case of ol' whitey vs Maori! It should be said that Maori elders themselves were often the reason for this - they wanted their children to succeed and they believed that following the old ways would impede that.

I just think that pride in its unique culture and heritage is what can make this country stronger and more inclusive of people. It also means that Maori culture is not just a museum piece but also a living part of this country.

White or Non White? No don't like those terms at all. Doesn't say anything about you at all. Doesn't say that you are from NZ, from England, from Ireland or from Latvia. It doesnt say anything about a person's ethnic or national background.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 5:53 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Perhaps the "Grievance Culture" should be mentioned now. I was in NZ for about a year. I remember reading about a road-widening scheme up in the North Island somewhere, the Local Maories were up in arms that the proposed works would take place over a culvert where the "Talyfan" (a mythical figure) lived. A few weeks later I found that the road scheme had been given the go-ahead following the payment of an undisclosed sum of money to the local tribe. No doubt there were many injustices metered out to the original inhabitants of these islands. I don't believe money is the answer to righting the wrongs. Respect would be a better way. But it's not easy to respect a group when their sole percieved aim is to fleece the Crown as often and for as much as they can.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:00 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Yotty View Post
Perhaps the "Grievance Culture" should be mentioned now. I was in NZ for about a year. I remember reading about a road-widening scheme up in the North Island somewhere, the Local Maories were up in arms that the proposed works would take place over a culvert where the "Talyfan" (a mythical figure) lived. A few weeks later I found that the road scheme had been given the go-ahead following the payment of an undisclosed sum of money to the local tribe. No doubt there were many injustices metered out to the original inhabitants of these islands. I don't believe money is the answer to righting the wrongs. Respect would be a better way. But it's not easy to respect a group when their sole percieved aim is to fleece the Crown as often and for as much as they can.
A Taniwha?

But you can't represent all Maori by the ones who do this. Yes, some take the mick, like when someone tried to claim rights to UK benefits for Maori based on the treaty of Waitangi.
But it's like picking a certain politician who does something you don't agree with in the UK then saying all British are the same.
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:10 am
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

The grievance culture is a million dollar industry Rob ...
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:11 am
  #39  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Yotty View Post
The grievance culture is a million dollar industry Rob ...

Maybe so, but I bet it's a select few getting most of the benefits
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:12 am
  #40  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Yup you're right it's the Maories!
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:13 am
  #41  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Yotty View Post
Yup you're right it's the Maories!

Damn, stepped right into that one!
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:16 am
  #42  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

np mate it might be better to concerntrate on the second half of my previous post ... about respect being the way out of this predicament ..
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:18 am
  #43  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Hehe the Treaty is an interesting one though isn't it. After all it gives Maori the "rights and privileges of a British subject"!!

Personally I would have liked to have used that one if I had thought of it to extend my visa when I was in the UK!!!!
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 6:19 am
  #44  
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There's 2 versions isn't there ..
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Old Nov 12th 2007, 7:01 am
  #45  
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Default Re: I Enrolled on Mauri Ora course today

Originally Posted by Ted Logan View Post

I don't believe the Maori/ Pakeha thing is as big as you are making it out to be.

You don't? I have no axe to grind either way, but the fact that there are so many things which are deliberately seperated which doesn't exactly suggest to me a nation of people going forwards as one. Just a few that come to mind:
  • Maori Television
  • Seperate Maori schools and a university
  • Maori Party and special seats in Government that only Maori can vote for
  • Maori activists campaigning for independence and their own sovereignty
  • Maori flag
  • Special provisions made for things such as http://www.maorihealth.govt.nz/
  • NZ Maori rugby team
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