How knackered is the UK?
Dec 17th 2009, 7:26 am
#121
Give us a kiss
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Peka Peka - Kapiti Coast - Nice!
Posts: 3,140
Dec 17th 2009, 11:18 am
#127
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: How knackered is the UK?
I knew containerisation would come up. 
Liverpool was considered as a major container port (as I actually mentioned in my first post). It was knocked back due to rampant unionism, and poor productivity. It could have been a major European port if it had kept militants under control. Now Tillbury and Grimsby are the biggest ports.
I do however agree that container ports are smaller and employ far fewer workers.
We could have still had the Red Ensign, if we too had employed third world sailors. But of course the Unions would take no bar of that, and so not only did the jobs go, so did the ships.
Sooner or later the unions will have to wake up and face the cold light of day.
I don’t like it either, but it’s a global economy. Either third world wages go up, or First world wages go down, or all the work goes to third world nations.
This globalisation is what is killing BA (and QANTAS). You can get an aircraft serviced in Thailand for far less than here in Sydney. Its cheaper to fly it up there. You can employ cabin staff from third world countries. They aren’t union members, work for half the pay and smile at the customers.
Read my earlier post about my friend. She would earn about $200 a month in Jakarta. Any more than that as a hostie and she is better off . Ask a BA hostie to work for $200 a month and see what you get.
The airlines understand competitive advantage, the problem is right now (and for a long time) the Unions still don’t get it.
What is the advantage of union member Brits as hosties? Can anyone please tell me?
Why employ a Brit when I can employ a Thai for far less. Especially when the Brit goes on bloody strike!!!!
Liverpool was considered as a major container port (as I actually mentioned in my first post). It was knocked back due to rampant unionism, and poor productivity. It could have been a major European port if it had kept militants under control. Now Tillbury and Grimsby are the biggest ports.
I do however agree that container ports are smaller and employ far fewer workers.
We could have still had the Red Ensign, if we too had employed third world sailors. But of course the Unions would take no bar of that, and so not only did the jobs go, so did the ships.
Sooner or later the unions will have to wake up and face the cold light of day.
I don’t like it either, but it’s a global economy. Either third world wages go up, or First world wages go down, or all the work goes to third world nations.
This globalisation is what is killing BA (and QANTAS). You can get an aircraft serviced in Thailand for far less than here in Sydney. Its cheaper to fly it up there. You can employ cabin staff from third world countries. They aren’t union members, work for half the pay and smile at the customers.
Read my earlier post about my friend. She would earn about $200 a month in Jakarta. Any more than that as a hostie and she is better off . Ask a BA hostie to work for $200 a month and see what you get.
The airlines understand competitive advantage, the problem is right now (and for a long time) the Unions still don’t get it.
What is the advantage of union member Brits as hosties? Can anyone please tell me?
Why employ a Brit when I can employ a Thai for far less. Especially when the Brit goes on bloody strike!!!!
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen.
P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms.Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Grimsby a big container port? News to me..Felixtowe would have thought along with Tilbury....
Dec 17th 2009, 11:26 am
#128
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: How knackered is the UK?
BA management know what to do. They aren’t idiots. Get back to being competitive by lower cost servicing of planes overseas and employing cheaper non union cabin crew.
Trying to do that invokes the wrath of the unions and its “Everyone Out Brothers”.
Changing the management wont fix the problem.
And so BA slowly crawls off the face of the earth, just as the Red Ensign did….
Trying to do that invokes the wrath of the unions and its “Everyone Out Brothers”.
Changing the management wont fix the problem.
And so BA slowly crawls off the face of the earth, just as the Red Ensign did….
You may note as a point of refferance QANTAS has done just that in recent years only to have it's name further blighted by some near misses put down in cases to shoddy Philippines etc servicing.
Dec 17th 2009, 12:53 pm
#129
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Nelson but hopefully not for long
Posts: 10
Re: How knackered is the UK?
I am choosing not to continue with the debate in this thread.
I have only posted facts that i know to be true and correct
from things i have personally seen and things i have been trained
to deal with during my years working for local authority.
I have no wish to be ridiculed or have the facts that i know to be true
poo poo'd by others.
Because a person has not seen something at first hand does not mean that thing does not exist.
I am not forcing anybody to believe that facts that i have posted.
I does frustrate me when others who have not seen or experianced the things
i have had to deal with on both personal and professional levels
simply dismiss them as Daily Mail properganda which is an easy and now
over used excuse for those who have either not had the experiances i have
had, or are too blinkered or naive in their thinking that they believe the official
line touted by the government is the way things actually work.
I have worked with and supported people who are "officially" entitled to nothing
yet in my professional role as a front line worker i have been told to ingore this
as we were bound by the european convention of human rights first and goverment policy second.
If the uk was the rich cultural and visual utopia that some are suggesting then
why the hell are there record numbers british people leaving the uk ?
Yes there has been a dip in the number of leavers recently but the cause for that
is the state of the global ecconomy and not the desire to leave.
I never see it as a good sign when people join a thread and add nothing.
For some it would seem using sarcasm or flatly dismissing others views or experiances
qualifies as contribution to a debate.
I have decided not to bore anyone else with my obviously ill informed point of view.
I will dismiss the things I have seen, ignore the things I have been taught.
I shall sweep my experiances both personal and professional under the carpet.
My work in the uk with immigrants both legal and illegal was obviously a figment of my imagination.
I have only posted facts that i know to be true and correct
from things i have personally seen and things i have been trained
to deal with during my years working for local authority.
I have no wish to be ridiculed or have the facts that i know to be true
poo poo'd by others.
Because a person has not seen something at first hand does not mean that thing does not exist.
I am not forcing anybody to believe that facts that i have posted.
I does frustrate me when others who have not seen or experianced the things
i have had to deal with on both personal and professional levels
simply dismiss them as Daily Mail properganda which is an easy and now
over used excuse for those who have either not had the experiances i have
had, or are too blinkered or naive in their thinking that they believe the official
line touted by the government is the way things actually work.
I have worked with and supported people who are "officially" entitled to nothing
yet in my professional role as a front line worker i have been told to ingore this
as we were bound by the european convention of human rights first and goverment policy second.
If the uk was the rich cultural and visual utopia that some are suggesting then
why the hell are there record numbers british people leaving the uk ?
Yes there has been a dip in the number of leavers recently but the cause for that
is the state of the global ecconomy and not the desire to leave.
I never see it as a good sign when people join a thread and add nothing.
For some it would seem using sarcasm or flatly dismissing others views or experiances
qualifies as contribution to a debate.
I have decided not to bore anyone else with my obviously ill informed point of view.
I will dismiss the things I have seen, ignore the things I have been taught.
I shall sweep my experiances both personal and professional under the carpet.
My work in the uk with immigrants both legal and illegal was obviously a figment of my imagination.
I have lived in Spain for many years also and saw/heard the same rejection of what is happening here in the UK.
One thing that always pissed me off was the attitude of ex-pats, never have i heard so many whingeing wankers as i have when listening to ex-pat drivel!
if you make a decision to leave the UK, make it then shut the f**ck up! adopt the lifestyle of the peoples you have chosen to live among and leave your baggage at heathrow terminal. (where the predominantly Asian handlers "WILL" rifle through it!) Stop using the word "Racism" where it has no place replacing the word "culturalism" In coming to NZ my partner and I "expect nothing" we will adapt to it's culture and try and contribute something it wants, not try and take out something we have not earned.
Dec 17th 2009, 12:55 pm
#130
Not allowed opinions.
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: How knackered is the UK?
Or on the other hand BA planes start falling from the skies owing to cheap developing world maintainance cutting corners.
You may note as a point of refferance QANTAS has done just that in recent years only to have it's name further blighted by some near misses put down in cases to shoddy Philippines etc servicing.
You may note as a point of refferance QANTAS has done just that in recent years only to have it's name further blighted by some near misses put down in cases to shoddy Philippines etc servicing.
Dec 17th 2009, 1:15 pm
#131
Not allowed opinions.
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: How knackered is the UK?
Thing is of course $200 goes far further in Jakarta than in London, La,or any western city and if the greed of business is as such there is a risk of a serious backlash and not only from the left but also the nationalist right which could well turn ugly in time.
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen.
P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms.Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Grimsby a big container port? News to me..Felixtowe would have thought along with Tilbury....
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen.
P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms.Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Grimsby a big container port? News to me..Felixtowe would have thought along with Tilbury....
Errrrrrr – you are telling me? I can live on 1$ a day in Jakarta. My friend lives on 20c a day.
and if the greed of business is as such there is a risk of a serious backlash and not only from the left but also the nationalist right which could well turn ugly in time.
Not if they are booking cheap airfares…
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
And all businesses have a right to employ who they want. They employ the cheapest.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen. P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
I agree. We gave the shit jobs to natives. (Are you really a socialist???)
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Ahhhh, and a darkie cant do the same job. Interesting postion…..
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms. Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Mate – I almost got thrown out of uni for arguing against globalisation. Trust me, I ripped every economist a second bumhole about this. What I predicted has now come true….
Dec 17th 2009, 2:44 pm
#132
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: How knackered is the UK?
Thing is of course $200 goes far further in Jakarta than in London, La,or any western city
Errrrrrr – you are telling me? I can live on 1$ a day in Jakarta. My friend lives on 20c a day.
and if the greed of business is as such there is a risk of a serious backlash and not only from the left but also the nationalist right which could well turn ugly in time.
Not if they are booking cheap airfares…
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
And all businesses have a right to employ who they want. They employ the cheapest.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen. P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
I agree. We gave the shit jobs to natives. (Are you really a socialist???)
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Ahhhh, and a darkie cant do the same job. Interesting postion…..
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms. Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Mate – I almost got thrown out of uni for arguing against globalisation. Trust me, I ripped every economist a second bumhole about this. What I predicted has now come true….
Errrrrrr – you are telling me? I can live on 1$ a day in Jakarta. My friend lives on 20c a day.
and if the greed of business is as such there is a risk of a serious backlash and not only from the left but also the nationalist right which could well turn ugly in time.
Not if they are booking cheap airfares…
All folk have a right to be able to earn enough to be able to maintain a decent level..not rich but decent any anything less then one cannot blame folk for siding with the forces of resistance on either side of the coin.
And all businesses have a right to employ who they want. They employ the cheapest.
As for the British merchant shipping companies well i can inform you countless companies employed at least part if not total developing world seamen. P&O for many decades employed Goans etc as stewards other companies employed Middle Eastern and Indian engine room workers as well as deckhands.
I agree. We gave the shit jobs to natives. (Are you really a socialist???)
What was a more recent move was to replace highly trained British ocean going officers and engineers with other nationalities and/or flying a cheap flag to get around restrictions.
Ahhhh, and a darkie cant do the same job. Interesting postion…..
Why should globalisation be held in such high esteem? Hasn't been a roaring success in terms of a number of measurements? Especially in human terms. Come to that it's not even a new concept.
Mate – I almost got thrown out of uni for arguing against globalisation. Trust me, I ripped every economist a second bumhole about this. What I predicted has now come true….
The quality of training obtained at British institutions was generally regarded as amoung the best with that of German,Norwegian,Swedesh generally considered to be on par(possibly Dutch) all having long traditions as sea fearing nations.
As for the shit jobs being given to natives that to is not strickly true.Positions at sea were actually quite highly considered and pay although not high by British seamen standards were still more than could be earned by folk if they worked at home under local conditions.
Business if it pulls out of the local market should expect no assistance if all goes belly up ..for instance corrupt practices or a less than business friendly government takes control and threatens to take over as has resulted it would appear in a few Latin American nations,Bolivia,Venezualia.
Business certainly has a responibilty to be a good corporate citizen which requires respect and decent standards for who it employs and laws that ensure this be in place. Makes long term good sense for business to remain in a safe country,protected by a set of laws,access to an educated workforce in an enviroment where long term stratagies can with a large degree of confidence be put in place.
Dec 17th 2009, 2:58 pm
#133
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: How knackered is the UK?
Why are you so concerned with regards to the giving jobs from Western nations to low paid developing world ones,i wonder?
Do you have some weird agenda to lower standards in the West further by deskilling the work force by encouraging business to exploit all sides ? What ever is your interest to constantly advocate such nonsense?
Dec 17th 2009, 5:31 pm
#134
TeamEmbo
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Rangiora
Posts: 1,557
Re: How knackered is the UK?
British Airways has won a High Court injunction blocking a 12-day Christmas walkout which threatened to wreak havoc on the travel plans of more than a million people.
