lardyl

so its inertia and over-confidence?
mingle with a bit of defensiveness and a(n) (un) healthy suspicion of foreigners....
How do ex-Pats change those then??

Apart from Eugenics, Genocide or a good old invasion?
Don't worry, in a few years time these Kiwis will be in the minority, so who cares?

bourbon-biscuit

See, I can't help but to feel a little defensive here. I don't find the Kiwi mindset 'closed'. I do find that in general Kiwis, who come from a culture different from my own, will approach a problem in a different way to me and this is sometimes frustrating.

I wonder if you mixed with Kiwis from a socio-economic group different from your own and what you were accustomed to in the UK. Pretty much all my Kiwi friends have either done the OE or come from overseas in their adult lifetime. The few that I meet with attitudes you describe (and worse) are not people I would have had much exposure to in the UK but communities are smaller here and the Kiwis seem to like socialising and meeting people so my social mix is wider. A good thing, I think

The gene pool is quite varied here.

Nerine

Quite a broad range of socio economic groups - from managing directors of large companies right through to farmers out in the wops and I found the attitudes to be fairly strong amongst Kiwis who had limited or no experience out of their own country. The older they were the more instransigent they became.

Even of those who did have OE experience, and a degree of awareness of the problems their country/their company was faced with most of them seemed to be content to sit back and accept things as they were, as they didn't think there was a real problem compared to the rest of the world. So long as they had their bach, their boat and could relax on the weekends nothing else seemed to concern them.

Some of the people in higher levels of business thought the solution to the inertia within their own companies was to bring in migrants from other countries. This worked up to a point, but when there was a danger of really disturbing the status quo or exposing any 'flaws' the shutters quickly came down. I suspect that migrants were mostly brought in to give these companies a veneer of credibility.

A few people who had small contracting businesses (and I'm talking here about migrants who'd been in the country for 10-15 years) refused to employ Kiwis because they couldn't rely on them to do a full days work to a decent standard once they drove off in their utes for the day. These employers were also people who were thinking seriously about leaving the country to work in Australia.

I_Will_Freckle

What is OE?

Nerine

Sorry....overseas experience

I_Will_Freckle

Cheers!

lardyl

Maybe we are comparing apples with pears demographically and socio-economically, certainly I am comparing my experiences in a seaside town in NZ near to a very large city with a small, child-friendly village full of professional, business or trades people. What I can compare more meanigfully is the work environment and that is where the greatest differences occur and many, many people who are "dissatisfied" with their NZ experience have the most difficulty at work. I find Kiwi management to be poor, unable/unwilling to deal with tough issues (either "too hard" or "she'll be right") and rather ineffficient compared to comparable UK organisations. As far as day to day with your workmates, the Brits and other ex-Pats would tend to stick together and moan about all of these things that others have raised here.

Even today I spoke with a SA friend who simply said "I do not discuss many things with Kiwis they are too defensive when it comes to criticism", that was unprompted and based on 6 years or so experience in a job dealing wih people day-in-day out. He's not a moaner, just a quietly spoken, ex-professional ex-Pat, with a NZ passport doing the best for his kids.

It seems to me at least, B-B, and you appear to have admitted as much elsewhere, that you live in the part of NZ that is off the beaten track and have a somewhat different experience to many other ex-Pats on here, who find it hard making "true" friends with Kiwis.

As I said elsewhere enjoy your weekend.

fnord

I've been watching this thread with interest, as an ex-Dunedite. I've been chatting recently to my close kiwi friends, all of whom live outside NZ. Two of them came back to live in Auckland a while back and didn't like what they found. They're now in Singapore (although 1 is probably going to give NZ another try in a few years).

Anyway, it got me think about the numbers of Kiwi's living outside of NZ. I think it's supposed to be about 1 million people. Now, what if we were all to come back to Kiwiland

Think about it, that would mean that 1/5 of the population would:

• be able to understand the local sensitivities so wont get the locals backs up so easily
• have an instant cultural connection and common background so locals more likely to listen to them
• have seen the rest of the world to contrast and compare and therefore not blind to the issues
• be blessed with better than average skills (debatable, but I'm sure I am )

Problem solved.

I do like the idea of political union with Australia, though

Campbells

Hello there,

Are you a Dunediner?

Were you born in New Zealand or Scotland ?

lardyl

Well here were are back on public transport and roads with an article from the local paper that about sums up the forward thinking hereabouts on public transport, roads, etc
Shows the planners have got it wrong and it appears that the council don't care....
how much was it to build the busway?
and how much did it cost everyone who uses the northern motorway with all that wasted time while the roadworks were there....and as they continue....?

Joined up thinking NZ style........?

lardyl

As you say there are plenty of Kiwis overseas who wouldn't like what they find and wouldn't be able to get along with all of us immigrants......so that's pretty unworkable as a solution.....?
Just let them drug all of us, ex_pat Kiwi returness and immigrants alike then stick a needle up the nose for the old fashioned lobotomy.....then the problems will disappear and Aunty Helen will be in power for ever.............

Campbells

I think the answer to this problem is VERY clear

Just get all the Kiwi’s that are overseas back in New Zealand

How we are going to attract them back to overpriced housing & crap wages is a topic for another thread perhaps?

But clearly the problem is

The whinging poms

So what if you have to walk 5 kms in the pouring rain .

Get Kiwi, carry a suitcase with you to work so you can change your clothes at work.

Maybe take a clothes line to hang up your drying clothes.

I think the northern busway is awesome and at least something was done. Yes it could be better but stop looking at that , it must be your negative character.

Now,

How do we get all those Kiwis back

Free buss passes ?

Taxis to the bus station ?

lardyl

Hey I've used the busway quite a few times and it is awesome, but it was clear even when it was being built (and I posted this a year or so ago) that there was never going to be enough parking...........why didn't someone notice? You only had to drive past at 0800hrs......hence, please give us more joined up thinking and that will change NZ for the good plus attract some Kiwis and other skilled folks back to plug the gaps....

Back Off-Topic: The story on the front of the paper is odd.....seems to be making the same editorial point, but what is it going to achieve - it'll probably put people off from using the services for a while which is not good for any of us.

Campbells

Well we can all hold hands and contact the living !

As I have said before, what is the point of offering solutions to improve any situation in New Zealand .

The attitude of not wanting to hear that there is room for improvement is itself a major problem. For me that is the real starting point and of course when that is considered we will be faced with Club Kiwi that will just come up with the quick fix solution to all the problems. Send all the poms back and fill the gap with Kiwis.

I have no doubt that you saw the potential shortage of parking some time ago.

I would imagine the planning of such a project is a no brainer

The potential number of passengers per bus

The number of services offered

= parking spaces required.

Real basics


For me this is the scary part and folk like you and I seem to have the ability to notice these errors and would imagine them as being covered in the planning of such a costly project

Is this because we come from a different country ?

Is because we have a different culture ?

Is it because we face the obvious head-on rather than try to bend the obvious into something it is not ?

I am not referring to the attitude in this forum but the bigger picture of New Zealand.

fnord

I was born in NZ, grandparent's on my Dad's side born in Scotland (migrated to NZ in the 50s I think), Mum grew up in Australia.