How to change NZ?
Mar 19th 2008, 10:15 am
#61
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
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Re: How to change NZ?
as the kind lady from IRD I met today felt rather abashed about $800m.....or was it $600, I forget,,,,,, and they did too
Mar 19th 2008, 2:12 pm
#62
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Re: How to change NZ?
As I said
Please take note - The title of the thread is
HOW TO CHANGE NZ
Pointing fingers at what is or is not in UK is the reason you moved back to New Zealand
Face it head-on
With reagrds to your "cost" comments on why it can't be done
Look at it as an investment
Life-saving investment
Make the country a better place investment
Does that change the outlook or will you still say
"It can't be done"
Ted, who is the negative one here
Please take note - The title of the thread is
HOW TO CHANGE NZ
Pointing fingers at what is or is not in UK is the reason you moved back to New Zealand
Face it head-on
With reagrds to your "cost" comments on why it can't be done
Look at it as an investment
Life-saving investment
Make the country a better place investment
Does that change the outlook or will you still say
"It can't be done"
Ted, who is the negative one here
Not sure about the insurance part as insurances have certainly not gone down in the UK despite the improvements, but there's plenty of other ways to improve things it would seem.
Mar 19th 2008, 5:57 pm
#63
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: How to change NZ?
On that topic I have now met a few Kiwis who think the ACC system sucks........suprising really, unless of course you are the victim of some gross negligence and it leaves you or your family seriously debilitated OR if you used to practice as a personal injury lawyer.........
Mar 19th 2008, 6:52 pm
#64
Here in Dunedin
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Re: How to change NZ?
We were talking about this yesterday - seems also a bit screwy that you are covered for accidents but not ill health. Its usual for insurance to be used for the most random events first, not the ones perhaps with a degree of control. Perhaps it made sense when the health system was fully public funded, but not now with mixed public/private care.
Mar 19th 2008, 7:34 pm
#65
By name and by nature
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,852
Re: How to change NZ?
I've long ago stopped feeling sorry for anyone who kills themselves because of either speeding or being drunk. I don't know whether this is correct or not but I've heard that in the US anyone who is DUI and kills someone is charged with 'Reckless Manslaughter' and gets six years in jail - sounds good to me 
We could start there.
We could start there.
Mar 19th 2008, 7:41 pm
#66
Banned
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Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: How to change NZ?
I've long ago stopped feeling sorry for anyone who kills themselves because of either speeding or being drunk. I don't know whether this is correct or not but I've heard that in the US anyone who is DUI and kills someone is charged with 'Reckless Manslaughter' and gets six years in jail - sounds good to me We could start there.
We could start there.It is when the drunk driver or speedster kills innocent people
The recent death of the youngsters on the north shore, notice that the cops say there was another car involved and possibly a street race
It is also important that a sentence is JAIL no house arrest , staying at home eating McDonalds and playing Grand Theft Auto
Mar 19th 2008, 8:31 pm
#67
By name and by nature
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,852
Re: How to change NZ?
It is when the drunk driver or speedster kills innocent people most definitely
The recent death of the youngsters on the north shore, notice that the cops say there was another car involved and possibly a street race and we had passed through Birkenhead on our way to Glenfield not long before - you can't have a race without at least two competitors
It is also important that a sentence is JAIL no house arrest , staying at home eating McDonalds and playing Grand Theft Give me strength :curse:
most definitelyThe recent death of the youngsters on the north shore, notice that the cops say there was another car involved and possibly a street race and we had passed through Birkenhead on our way to Glenfield not long before - you can't have a race without at least two competitors
It is also important that a sentence is JAIL no house arrest , staying at home eating McDonalds and playing Grand Theft Give me strength :curse:
Mar 19th 2008, 8:59 pm
#68
Here in Dunedin
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Re: How to change NZ?
Thanks Campbells - thats a nice, well thought out answer to a problem that I know you feel strongly about. [and incredibly good formatting too - A+ for presentation
]
In the spirit of discussing the practicalities of your proposals I have added my observations and some questions (because I don't think I know all the answers) below
Please don't think by my last comments I am belittling the NZ problem. I am just saying that the issues are difficult ones to address, and I'm always a bit hesitant in curtailing some innocent people's freedoms just because of a few bad ones. So on reflection my takeouts of all of this would be improved policing and better sentencing. They are the only ones that properly target the behaviour you are trying to stop.
]In the spirit of discussing the practicalities of your proposals I have added my observations and some questions (because I don't think I know all the answers) below
Problem:
How to get the youth that are being allowed to kill themselves on the roads here – STOPPED.
Solution options:
• Get people to recognise there is a problem that needs attention – and fast. Can't disagree with that - maybe more gruesome tv ads targeted at youth should be used. As an aside, do you think Top Gear and other programmes that set a poor example should be banned?
• Compulsory insurance that is rated according to the drivers’ age, road skills and the power of their vehicle. After market modifications to the vehicle require an additional insurance inspection, compliance and will equate to higher rates. Why not just compulsory insurance - it seems fairer and simpler. Let the insurance companies sort out the premium rates
• Stricter policing, that is anything that is better than the current invisible police force we have. Agreed - I think the cops do a good job on the whole, except they seem to be invisible on the road, and never pull anyone over except for speeding. I must admit I can't comment what policing they do of hoons - I tend not to be on the same roads as hoons. [Bit of history here - NZ used to have separate traffic versus normal cops - bit like Italy. I think when they merged the two the traffic division became much less effective
• Raise the driving age limit. It might help, it might not. Lack of public transport will be the issue faced here. Based on the way the wind is blowing, this is most likely of your solutions to be implemented first
• Jail term sentencing for alcohol & driving related prosecutions. No more pizza & cotton wool. I thought they had that anyway - how does NZ compare with overseas? And how related are the drink driving and hoon problems
• Speed bumps in all residential areas that are known to have hoon problems. Probably can be done now by local councils?? Won't the hoons just move elsewhere??
• New Zealand to upgrade their road system to this century if they are to have cars from this century driving on them in the hands of teenagers.
I personally don't think we can afford more than we are currently spending on roads. Theres no doubt roads are being straightened, more barriers are being added, and all at the same time as major arterial routes are being added in some of the larger cities. There might be better priorities for our money - herceptin, targeting a reduction in suicides (more prevalent than road deaths), tax cuts even, come to mind.
But first on the list:
• AN ENFORCED, REDUCED speed limits around all schools, pre-schools and children’s’ play areas.
Agreed
Working solutions already in place that can be mirrored:
Many of the debates on this forum point to other countries and say well it happens there. So I will play that card – the UK.
Take example from the UK driving standards and approach to these matters it is a working example. In my opinion it works because the police and public don’t accept less
I lived in the Uk for 10 years and was not partiuclarly aware of any great strides in combatting or improving driving behaviour there. The UK is not without its own issues - joyriders, motorway tailgating, using residential streets as ratruns all seemed more prevalent there than I have observed in NZ. I also think the Uk has some natural advantages over NZ in solving some of the youth problems that we are discussing. Congestion tends to moderate boy racing, and a half decent public transport system helps a lot too.
How to get the youth that are being allowed to kill themselves on the roads here – STOPPED.
Solution options:
• Get people to recognise there is a problem that needs attention – and fast. Can't disagree with that - maybe more gruesome tv ads targeted at youth should be used. As an aside, do you think Top Gear and other programmes that set a poor example should be banned?
• Compulsory insurance that is rated according to the drivers’ age, road skills and the power of their vehicle. After market modifications to the vehicle require an additional insurance inspection, compliance and will equate to higher rates. Why not just compulsory insurance - it seems fairer and simpler. Let the insurance companies sort out the premium rates
• Stricter policing, that is anything that is better than the current invisible police force we have. Agreed - I think the cops do a good job on the whole, except they seem to be invisible on the road, and never pull anyone over except for speeding. I must admit I can't comment what policing they do of hoons - I tend not to be on the same roads as hoons. [Bit of history here - NZ used to have separate traffic versus normal cops - bit like Italy. I think when they merged the two the traffic division became much less effective
• Raise the driving age limit. It might help, it might not. Lack of public transport will be the issue faced here. Based on the way the wind is blowing, this is most likely of your solutions to be implemented first
• Jail term sentencing for alcohol & driving related prosecutions. No more pizza & cotton wool. I thought they had that anyway - how does NZ compare with overseas? And how related are the drink driving and hoon problems
• Speed bumps in all residential areas that are known to have hoon problems. Probably can be done now by local councils?? Won't the hoons just move elsewhere??
• New Zealand to upgrade their road system to this century if they are to have cars from this century driving on them in the hands of teenagers.
I personally don't think we can afford more than we are currently spending on roads. Theres no doubt roads are being straightened, more barriers are being added, and all at the same time as major arterial routes are being added in some of the larger cities. There might be better priorities for our money - herceptin, targeting a reduction in suicides (more prevalent than road deaths), tax cuts even, come to mind.
But first on the list:
• AN ENFORCED, REDUCED speed limits around all schools, pre-schools and children’s’ play areas.
Agreed
Working solutions already in place that can be mirrored:
Many of the debates on this forum point to other countries and say well it happens there. So I will play that card – the UK.
Take example from the UK driving standards and approach to these matters it is a working example. In my opinion it works because the police and public don’t accept less
I lived in the Uk for 10 years and was not partiuclarly aware of any great strides in combatting or improving driving behaviour there. The UK is not without its own issues - joyriders, motorway tailgating, using residential streets as ratruns all seemed more prevalent there than I have observed in NZ. I also think the Uk has some natural advantages over NZ in solving some of the youth problems that we are discussing. Congestion tends to moderate boy racing, and a half decent public transport system helps a lot too. Last edited by southerner; Mar 19th 2008 at 9:02 pm.
Mar 19th 2008, 11:27 pm
#69
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Re: How to change NZ?
IMHO the biggest factor affecting change in New Zealand are Kiwi attitudes.
Many of them don't even acknowledge a problem exists, there may be some local fire fighting to deal with issues as they arise but there isn't any real long term planning or overall vision for the country.
I've found Kiwis to be quite good at sitting around and discussing an issue (nothing they like better) but when it comes to anything decisive or ground breaking they'll side step it or suggest that future research is needed, in the hope by the time the results are known something else will be the hot topic of the day. And that's on a business level.
Socially Kiwis, particularly the older ones who have probably never left the country, are quite content to corner a Brit in a pub. Then will bend our ears for hours on end about the dreadful problems in the UK faces and how wonderful isn't it that NZ isn't afflicted with the same issues. How it even gets dark there at 3pm despite you offering to provide them with photos of daylight at 9:30pm! and describing the pleasures of life in a small English country village . They won't hear you or notice your lips moving. There is just no changing some ingrained attitudes or one eyed ignorance.
I may have had my tongue in my cheek a bit when I suggested flooding the country with Ozzies but there is a lot to be said for watering down the closed mindset and opening up the gene pool a bit.
Many of them don't even acknowledge a problem exists, there may be some local fire fighting to deal with issues as they arise but there isn't any real long term planning or overall vision for the country.
I've found Kiwis to be quite good at sitting around and discussing an issue (nothing they like better) but when it comes to anything decisive or ground breaking they'll side step it or suggest that future research is needed, in the hope by the time the results are known something else will be the hot topic of the day. And that's on a business level.
Socially Kiwis, particularly the older ones who have probably never left the country, are quite content to corner a Brit in a pub. Then will bend our ears for hours on end about the dreadful problems in the UK faces and how wonderful isn't it that NZ isn't afflicted with the same issues. How it even gets dark there at 3pm despite you offering to provide them with photos of daylight at 9:30pm! and describing the pleasures of life in a small English country village
. They won't hear you or notice your lips moving. There is just no changing some ingrained attitudes or one eyed ignorance.I may have had my tongue in my cheek a bit when I suggested flooding the country with Ozzies but there is a lot to be said for watering down the closed mindset and opening up the gene pool a bit.
Last edited by Nerine; Mar 19th 2008 at 11:31 pm.
Mar 20th 2008, 12:10 am
#70
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: How to change NZ?
Thanks Campbells - thats a nice, well thought out answer to a problem that I know you feel strongly about. [and incredibly good formatting too - A+ for presentation]
In the spirit of discussing the practicalities of your proposals I have added my observations and some questions (because I don't think I know all the answers) below
Please don't think by my last comments I am belittling the NZ problem. I am just saying that the issues are difficult ones to address, and I'm always a bit hesitant in curtailing some innocent people's freedoms just because of a few bad ones. So on reflection my takeouts of all of this would be improved policing and better sentencing. They are the only ones that properly target the behaviour you are trying to stop.
]In the spirit of discussing the practicalities of your proposals I have added my observations and some questions (because I don't think I know all the answers) below
Please don't think by my last comments I am belittling the NZ problem. I am just saying that the issues are difficult ones to address, and I'm always a bit hesitant in curtailing some innocent people's freedoms just because of a few bad ones. So on reflection my takeouts of all of this would be improved policing and better sentencing. They are the only ones that properly target the behaviour you are trying to stop.
A+ for presentation
You sound like a teacher talking to a child
You asked a question how NZ can change I gave you some input, now you want to pick holes in that
I thought it was your pet project for the day?
That was yesterday
In conclusion:
I have said to you before and you get all upset and throw your toys when I say
Attitude is the problem
I have been told so many times that the Kiwis have this “can do” attitude
Lip service mate and the essence of your response is typical
Perhaps if you saw the situation as more than a pet project for the day and that in fact there are way too many youths ending up dead on the roads.
Note:
If you keep comparing the UK to NZ I think to be fair comparing where you live to London is not exactly the same
I would say you need to compare your area to Stornoway
Mar 20th 2008, 12:50 am
#72
Here in Dunedin
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Mar 20th 2008, 1:05 am
#74
Here in Dunedin
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Re: How to change NZ?
I'll let the rest of my post stand on its merits. If people don't want to focus on the bits we are in agreement on, then so be it.
Mar 20th 2008, 1:34 am
#75
Here in Dunedin
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