How backward is New Zealand
Feb 3rd 2010, 10:34 am
#76
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Re: How backward is New Zealand
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and you have started an interesting thread. Here are my views
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! – The choices are those supported by the size of the market, and the geographical and economic situation of New Zealand. Yes you are right that there is less choice and prices can be higher but using the ability to buy convenience foods, loaded with salt, sugars, fats trans fats etc. is not exactly a compelling argument
Education is appalling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ - Not true. International studies show that the NZ system is rated as one of the best in the world.
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University – Again wrong. A far higher proportion of the population in New Zealand have achieved a tertiary education qualification here (41%) in 2007 than in the UK (33%) and the rate of those doing so is increasing faster in NZ too.
Try this link http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible - Although intelligence is subjective given that OECD figures indicate a substantial greater proportion of New Zealand population has upper secondary and tertiary education, I would suggest either this statement is incorrect, or your experience did not align with the NZ average (or the people you spoke to were deliberately keeping their conversations at a low level – for whatever reason)
Health and Safety is a joke – Although a 2006 report does show that deaths through injury are higher in New Zealand than the UK, they are much lower than those in the US and about the same level as Denmark (not a country known for being dangerous I would maintain) http://www.nzips.govt.nz/documents/I...on30.06.06.pdf
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture – Midnight Youth, Crowded House, Ladyhawke, Nathan King – all not very American – I hardly hear any rap music. OK there is a fair bit of rock music much of which belongs in the 70’s but that’s what people like….like a lot of Europe! (have you heard what the French and Germans listen to – Schlagermuisc!!!)
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight – That depends on what you expect. If you can measure the difference between desire and earnings as debt then the levels of household debt here is less than the UK (but admittedly rising fast however this data is before the credit crunch which has impacted the UK harder than NZ)
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited – As opposed to mad cow disease, foot and mouth, factory farming ?
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience – You’re repeating yourself but NZ is statistically more dangerous than the UK but given the access to extreme sports being as safe as Denmark is not too bad.
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture – Yes the Kiwi drug use, especially cannabis is very high by international comparison. Interestingly however for teenagers, statistically there is no bigger issue here than in UK – so you could surmise it’s the older users causing the cultural problem.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK – Not sure I agree with the conclusion regarding pressures. Have you a report to back that up? Again whilst NZ does have a higher rate than the UK and US it’s rate is similar to Luxembourg and Switzerland.
http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/
College courses are few and far between.- and yet many more people go to tertiary education than the UK
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind – you could argue that ease of communicating ideas these days make distance less of a factor than say language.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured – never thought NZ was an anarchic society! What do you mean ’no structure’?
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. – Again – wrong. In NZ there are about 4000 gang members in a population of over 4 million (1 in 1000). In the US it is 800000 out of 300 million (1 in 380), even in the UK there is an estimated 2800 gangs with a membership of 80,000 out of a population of 60 million (1 in 750)
In conclusion, whilst no-one can dispute your personal experience and observations and you have a right to your opinions, perhaps you should do some factual research to broaden your knowledge base before voicing those opinions.
I found myself concurring with almost all of the points raised.
I'm afraid I have reached the age where my controlled and considered response is literally disintegrating and I lose debates through my lack of objectivity.
J
Feb 3rd 2010, 11:17 am
#77
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 260
Re: How backward is New Zealand
In response I will try to explain and i apoligise to all those people who felt offended by my unwisely choice of words.
No choice in the supermarkets, if u want to home back u r ok, want a convenience meal forget it! I personally find the 'convenience meal' mentality in the UK sad. Get a cook book! It is healthier to cook your own food for starters.
Hi most of our meals are cooked from scratch, but when u have got lots of things to attend to and the kids need to be here there and everywhere a convenience meal is just that a convenience. I made a birthday cake and went to buy some writing pens, to write happy birthday on the top, could i get any NO the woman in the supermarket looked at me as though I was strange and gladly handed me a piping bag!!!! I thought they were extinct
Education is appaling, my opinion of having 4 kids in the UK system then NZ Some posters will disagree with that according to previous posts I've read. I can't comment.
Being a Lecturer with kids in very good schools in the UK, I found the education system appalling. NCEA is supposed to be on par with our GCSE's and A Levels, in my opinion there is no comparison. When head teachers will not call in parents of disobedient children because their parents are a gang members and will not upset them, it beggered belief!!
No expectations for kids to leave school and go to University. Who's responsibility is it? the schools? government? why not the parents?
It is the parents and the schools responsibility to inspire kids to attain the best they can out of life.
The people are NOT intelligent and to get an intelligent conversation is near on impossible. Sounds like a massively unfair generalisation to me.
This was a bad choice of words, very sorry people. I longed for an academic conversation, a debate, to speak to a person who could have a stimulating conversation was very limiting, it could have been the area we were in.
Health and Safety is a joke. In what way? Roads, driving the mountain rod every day to take kids to schools, no barrieres at all. Allowing kids to drive at 15. The fact that when there are health and safety rules in place no one takes any notice of them. Tokoro Mill has safety bars to stop people falling in once the drains are opened but these have to be removed because the suction truck hose does not fit through it, so they have to lift it and any person could fall into the pit and would die within minutes. Also the collection of chemicals, they take anything where are the ADR certificates.
Music is mostly american rap and NZ follow american culture. As do half the planet!
Spending lots of time with teenagers, the american music and influence I felt was more prominent in NZ at least in the Uk they promote many new British bands. Again something I suppose I didn't expect
Wages are do not match expectations, therefore lifestyle you have previously had is no where in sight. You should have known this before moving to NZ. No-one moves to NZ to get rich. There are millions of posts about that.
I knew my wages would be half what I was on in the UK, but actually having the experience of having to live on them was very difficult, when u live by certain standards.
The Kiwi's do not want progress especially in all the farms I visited. What do you mean? do they use oxen to plough the fields?
hahaha you make me laugh. I was teaching farmers and their labourers how to use a new hand held computer and they are quite happy to tell you that they do not want computers and that they want new zealand to stay as it was. I found this difficult to comprehend especially as in the Uk we embrace new technologies. Also while teaching Korean and Japanese students they were shocked how behind with technology NZ was. They came with their studies downloaded to MP3's.
NZ is not safer than the UK in our experience. I'm sure many on BE NZ will disagree with that.
I can understand why lots of people may not agree with this, but in our experience this was the case. My 15 year old daughter was sexually assaulted in NZ and the culprit got sent to prison for 2 years. As I said in the Uk we take our kids to and from schools by car, so we felt like lots of others that NZ was safer so let hr walk! The culprits attitude in court stated, "If she was my daughter I would not let her out of my sight"
Drugs are a big acceptable part of their culture. Drugs are everywhere! Most teens will dapple in or come across drugs. You should educate them to be responsible
Of course every responsible parent in any country teaches their kids about drugs and their dangers, but we were not ready for the ACCEPTABLE part, that it is Ok to smoke dope in front of kids and teach them it is OK. I am sorry it in NOT OK to me or my family, hence the move away. it is endemic in NZ just another part of their culture.
The biggest suicide rate in teenagers is in NZ as the pressure on kids to go out and work to bring in money for the family, is a bigger pressure than getting a good education in the UK. It is all relative..
Agreed, different cultures expect different things from their children. But don't forget also that it is still Ok to beat your kids to a pulp in NZ and it happens as I have done lots of research and it is not a frowned upon, again it is accepted. These are things that are not anticipated when moving to a new culture until you experience them
College courses are few and far between. Such as? While doing some research a while back I came across Unis in Auckland and Christchurch, and I didn't have to look very hard.
Choices of what you can study is still very limiting. Teaching in a UK college with 350,000 students, to a few hundred students at the local college in NZ, again this is due to population so if your kids choose a course , it is quite likely that it is going to be a long way from home in NZ to enable them to persue a career. Universities have a better choice, but a UK degree is better recognised that many other countries degrees.
Being so far away from other countries, it has been left behind. I understand that this could be an issue for some, but for me this is what is appealing about NZ
Again perspective. I have never said NZ was bad, it is a matter of perspective. Again the reality did not hit me until I lived in NZ and could not jump on a plane and visit another country so easily. It is appealing if u want seclusion and a quiet peaceful life, I agree.
The fact that there is no structure to society is very hard to work with, especially as the UK is so structured. Please explain what you mean by this.
Stucture, rules and regulation are not adhered to. Drink Driving- I was at a petrol station and a man in the next car drove up, drunk so much he couldn't stand and had a child in the car about 2years old. The police turn a blind eye to drink driving, driving without seat belts. They do you for speeding though as it gains them money, like other countries. it is hard to explain that there is no infastructure maybe someone on her can explain better. Where you are brought up with rules and regulations, trying to live the the sloppiness of it all is difficult.
Lots of Adults in NZ believe in being in gangs, which their kids follow. This sounds like utter bollocks to me. Lots of adults all over NZ want to be in gangs? nonsense
So there are NO MONGREL MOB AND BLACK POWER GANGS????? Get out of here LOL. These Gangs are known by the police, but even the police will not deal with them. They pick up the young wannabe members cos it is easier! So there was No shooting in broad daylight of a Mongrel Mob member in Rotorua in 2006 and the shooting of a Black Powers daughter (2 year old) in 2007? I just dreampt this did I. read the papers. These gangs do rule parts of Rotorua. Most doctors and Counsellors were also shocked by the amount of gang culture in Rotoura.
I have tried to explain from my point of view, how I felt in New Zealand. I know there will always be people who are opposed to what I say. But please remember, if i do not answer straight away I am many miles from you now. New Zealand was a lovely place to visit but I did not feel I could stay.
Feb 3rd 2010, 11:21 am
#78
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 260
Re: How backward is New Zealand
Thank you for your clarity, conciseness and calmness in expressing your thoughts and observations based on facts.
I found myself concurring with almost all of the points raised.
I'm afraid I have reached the age where my controlled and considered response is literally disintegrating and I lose debates through my lack of objectivity.
J
I found myself concurring with almost all of the points raised.
I'm afraid I have reached the age where my controlled and considered response is literally disintegrating and I lose debates through my lack of objectivity.
J
I was expressing my personal opinion of what I experienced in New Zealand, therefore i do not feel that I have to back up every argument with facts. I did a lot of Research, talking to other people in Rotorua.
Feb 3rd 2010, 11:52 am
#79
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Joined: Jul 2008
Location: @ the beach.
Posts: 7,243
Re: How backward is New Zealand
I agree with you on some points and not on others.
However all things considered I would not return to the UK. There can be no greater recommendation as to if one feels life is pleasurable in a place than that they have intimately known other places but choose to continue to reside in that place.
That is all thank you ladies and gentlemen.
However all things considered I would not return to the UK. There can be no greater recommendation as to if one feels life is pleasurable in a place than that they have intimately known other places but choose to continue to reside in that place.
That is all thank you ladies and gentlemen
.
Feb 3rd 2010, 11:57 am
#80
happy daisy
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: French Alps
Posts: 690
Re: How backward is New Zealand
thanks for your explanations Heavenlyscent. At least now what you said in your first post makes more sense. It sounds to me like you chose the wrong place to call home in NZ, and that many people elsewhere in NZ have a very different experience of life there. Perhaps you should have moved to another town/city. You never know, you may have decided to stay.
Anyway, you are back in the UK now, and I hope that works well for you.
Anyway, you are back in the UK now, and I hope that works well for you.
Feb 3rd 2010, 12:29 pm
#81
Life is what YOU make it.
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Christchurch
Posts: 3,312
Re: How backward is New Zealand
HS you must be living in a different UK than the one I am living in! As your "backward list of NZ" seems equally to apply to the UK it's just harder to see through the legs of the 60 million people..........
Feb 3rd 2010, 12:38 pm
#82
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Re: How backward is New Zealand
If you assume the remark was 'mentally prefaced' by 'Based on the majority of Kiwis I encountered, the people etc etc '....it ceases to be offensive and is just her opinion based on her 'valid' experiences in Rotorua.
I don't share her generalised view but I don't see any reason to call her on how she expressed it on a forum intended for expats not Kiwis. We all generalise from the particular on the internet....it would be a bit boring if all posts were...'on the one hand' but there again 'on the other'....
I don't share her generalised view but I don't see any reason to call her on how she expressed it on a forum intended for expats not Kiwis. We all generalise from the particular on the internet....it would be a bit boring if all posts were...'on the one hand' but there again 'on the other'....
Crikey I need a drink
Feb 3rd 2010, 12:49 pm
#83
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Re: How backward is New Zealand
HS very sorry to hear about your daughter. That must have been an awful, distressing experience for your daughter and family.
Feb 3rd 2010, 1:08 pm
#84
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Re: How backward is New Zealand
no wonder loads of (most) Kiwi girls are fatter than me. .......................................
but Being fat is good. 
I always wonder........ why do ppl eat & love lamingtons
-- very tasty and yum yum?
Feb 3rd 2010, 1:12 pm
#85
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Re: How backward is New Zealand
I would just like to respond in regard of smoking weed. It is a general remark and not NZ related. I guess alcohol and tobacco although legal and available everywhere, ruin far more lives and families than cannabis ever will. It is just my point of view, I have never smoked dope and have no intention to. But seemingly we all behave like sheep, much for the reason of repressive actions taken by our government(s).
What would happen if all drugs were legalised? Would everybody buy bulks of heroin etc? I don't think so, but the source to finance worldwide criminal activities which is often closely related with government decisions and actions would loose its attraction. Or perhaps they are just unable to charge people taxes on illegal drugs as they do on legal ones.
As I am fresh one here, I don't know whether positive things were listed at some other place, but from this writing only one may assume that all is crap in NZ.
What would happen if all drugs were legalised? Would everybody buy bulks of heroin etc? I don't think so, but the source to finance worldwide criminal activities which is often closely related with government decisions and actions would loose its attraction. Or perhaps they are just unable to charge people taxes on illegal drugs as they do on legal ones.
As I am fresh one here, I don't know whether positive things were listed at some other place, but from this writing only one may assume that all is crap in NZ.
Feb 3rd 2010, 5:21 pm
#86
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 181
Re: How backward is New Zealand
dont normaly say this but I for one think this particulat thread has run its course.
I'd say it has touched a raw nerve in both camps and rightly so as that is what this place is all about.
To often people on here forget this is a forum and as such will always throw up opinions for and against a persons particular view. I for one NEVER take a reply as a personal attack on me any more than I would when chatting in a pub.Sure I will argue my corner and rightly so.
However there comes a point at which having made that point it can start to become diluted to the point where it is nit picking.
Lets not allow this place to get like another one I used to frequent we are all better than that!
good thread though!
george
I'd say it has touched a raw nerve in both camps and rightly so as that is what this place is all about.
To often people on here forget this is a forum and as such will always throw up opinions for and against a persons particular view. I for one NEVER take a reply as a personal attack on me any more than I would when chatting in a pub.Sure I will argue my corner and rightly so.
However there comes a point at which having made that point it can start to become diluted to the point where it is nit picking.
Lets not allow this place to get like another one I used to frequent we are all better than that!
good thread though!
george
