bearskin

What do you think of what I term 'lifestyle' investments - art, for example?

I moved to NZ from Bristol. I know.

Hokey-pokey

I would only ever speculate in art, if I had money that I could afford to lose. The art world is subject to fashion and tastes change. It can also be difficult to sell on artwork. No matter how much a piece is admired, someone must have the discretionary dollars to spare, the right sized wall, the decor etc. It can be a waiting game hanging out for the right buyer. Not good if you need that hip operation now. ( I think this applies to all lifestyle investments.)

However if you have the cash to spare and enjoy a flutter then why not? Maybe a fortune can be made or at the very least the great great grand kids will inherit an heirloom or two.

Seriously though, it would be advisable to seek advice from a reputable art dealer. They can offer invaluable advice on how to start a collection for investment purposes.

bearskin

What if you had a piece of contemporary art that had cost you nothing but was potentially worth a wodge?

Keep it or sell it (and put the money in something else - like NZ property! lol)?

I'm aware that art is fickle and just because a current artist is very 'in' doesn't mean he always will be. Art can sometimes leap in value on an artists death, but this particular genre, I can see his appeal having a sell-by date - it's a young person's game, not your average National Gallery stuff.

Hokey-pokey

That sounds absolutely intriguing!! Congratulations! You are in an enviable position.

Please excuse me if you have these bases already covered, but firstly I would be arranging for at least two or three valuations. This might involve having the piece valued outside NZ or indeed in the artists country of origin, where it is likely to be more highly regarded. Sometimes our expectations of an artworks value can be dashed at this point. However if your piece is showing promise then I'd be getting it insured ASAP.

I would seek out some independent professional advice. How's your lawyer? A decent lawyer will know the ins and outs of your circumstances and should be helpful. An auction house would be able to give you some direction also eg Dunbar and Sloane - as dealers they should be able to appraise and advise on the piece. I would be talking to as many reputable art dealers possible.

There are so many variables attached to this eg sentimental attachment to the work, your current financial situation, your aspirations etc etc. It's a nice conundrum to have.

TommyLuck

This is like saying the sun will rise tomorrow, but with less objectivity.

Of course it wont stay absolutely stable and the growth is unlikely to be maintained, but what does 'crash' mean?

a. Houses will be worthless, montarily speaking.

b. Most homeowners will be plunged into negative equity and a steep decline in average house prices.

c. Some homeowners in negative equity and a reasonable decline in average house prices.

d. The average price of a house flattens.

e. The rate at which the average price slows.


Particularly looking a the Auckland market the trend for the last half a century has been 5 - 7 years of growth and then a year of slower progress (not a decline).

I would suggest for those that have budgeted accordingly that D and E are actually the most likely over the course of a mortageg repayment period.

For the rest, see my post on this thread about heeding poor advice and making poor decisions.

One persons bubble bursting is another person opportunity.

Or was it, one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. I forget which

Mark Smith

One of my favourite quotes, now does it refer to Ernesto "Che" Guevara or members of greenpeace?

TommyLuck

Do you need the cash now? Sell it, as long as you're not being bent over a barrell.

Are you likely to need cash in the near future? Get a valuation, get some advice about the pieces potential. Make and informed decision.

Do you not really need the cash. Can you afford the long term risk it being worth nothing in the end? If so, keep it - if nothing else it might be worth something to your children, grandkids, great grandkids, great great grandkids, etc ...

If the last option, you can keep reevaulating in the coming years based on the first and second options.


If it cost you nothing in the first place, is it really in investment? It's more a potential windfall.

It's like a TV quiz show, where you could win a certain amount of cash based on getting a question right. If you get it wrong you walk away with what you already had. If you get it right bonus.

NB - I realise that with some like, Who Wants to be a Millionaire - you can choose to walk away with cash, but you get my point. If you walk out of there with 'nothing' or to put it another way 'what you walked in with' have you really lost out?

Depends on your outlook and personaility I guess?

Snap Shot

I agree.

In my view, break even is no loss.

We plan to arrive back in Britain with the proceeds of the sale of our house in NZ. If we have a little bit more money than we left Britain with because of an increase in house prices and a favourable NZD/GBR exchange rate all well and good. If it's slightly less money than we arrived in NZ with, well, that's just the way it goes.

In the long run, all that will have happened is that time passed by. Once time is past, each minute, each year etc, it's gone forever for everyone. So these years of my life that I feel I am wasting by not being in paid employment, though it's not for the want of looking, I'll look back and say, (c'mon everybody, join in the chorus) it wasn't that bad.

I feel we will be better off on 2 salaries paying more income tax in Britain than NZ plus National Insurance deductions than trying to live on one salary in NZ which is what we are doing at present. However, the household income of one salary is still better than returning to Britain with no salary whatsoever. So, it'll be a while before we leave these shores. There are people who have returned to Britain from NZ on the strength of a job offer. Will we be one of them ? Time will tell.

TommyLuck

Tis my view to Snap Shot.

I'm not one to attach emotion to an investment. I suppose it's a business decision that is taken with the head, not the heart.

For instance we saw and were tempted by a few lovely houses that we could have afforded at a stretch. We saw sense and realised that investing in a couple of smaller properties was the more sensible business decision.

Once we have our property portfolio sorted out, we'll still be able to have that house down the line, without our investment spread about a bit, across properties (residential and commercial), savings accounts of varying risks and a business.

If we turn that situation around and bought the house in the first place, the property portfolio wouldn't happen in all likliehood, the liquid cash just wouldn't have been there and would be difficult to build up to a level whereby property investment would be a viable option.

Start small, build and then go big - or at least that's the plan.

pippalonghorn

What if you can't afford to start small in NZ? What do those people do then? Those people do exist.

jmh

The same thing you would do back in the UK. Move to a less popular area where rents are lower, save up hard, get a second job/shift work/overtime, reign in the spending and get rid of your debt. Buy a do-up with some land (if you're lucky you might be able to subdivide it in the future). Accept that you will have to commute further to be able to afford it. I'm looking at all these options, just like I did when I lived in London.

I had to get a second job to pay the mortgage on my first property which was a 1 bed flat. However things improved, and I was able to upscale after a few years. That was in the UK. Like Tommy says, start small. Nobody is saying it's easy.

bearskin

Sorry, two separate things. I have investment art (that I also happen to enjoy looking at); and I have a piece of art that came my way for nothing - but will be worth SO much more it's not true.

I'm lucky enough to have bought for pleasure AND investment - buying the best of the price I could afford (generally an artist on their 1st, sometimes 2nd solo show for example) that I liked the work.

bearskin

Surely ANYONE can afford to start small in NZ? There are family houses here for $30K. There are apartments in Auckland you could happily live in - as a start - to buy for affordable prices.

No-one is pretending that is where you may want to end up long term, but if don't take that first step on a journey, then you stay standing still.

pippalonghorn

Ok. Some people may not have debt, some may not beable to work 3 jobs, some may be on a very low wage. Each circumstance is different. This is how it is for some. It's not negative thinking it is real life. Good luck to those who can afford property here. It's a lovely place to live.

ExKiwilass

I agree with this.

A lot of people say the same thing about Vancouver (it's too $$ etc) but if you drill down it's because they're not willing to buy the small condo, or in the less than perfect area.

But i also agree with pippa that for some people even that step is too hard.