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The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Old Nov 1st 2012, 1:02 am
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Default The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Has anyone read The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of NZ and it's Treaty.

I've just finished this book and found it extremely interesting.
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Old Nov 2nd 2012, 12:17 pm
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Have not read it but interested to hear why you liked it.

I studied the TOW and the first and second NZ wars for 2 years at uni! I LOVE NZ history. That is why we are here
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Old Nov 3rd 2012, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Has anyone read The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of NZ and it's Treaty.

I've just finished this book and found it extremely interesting.
Thanks - just downloaded it onto Kindle, even the first few pages look good

Jan
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Old Nov 4th 2012, 4:42 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by GoingIn2011 View Post
Have not read it but interested to hear why you liked it.
Perhaps read it & then let me know your own thoughts.

For me, it was interesting to have a straightforward, understandable delivery , complete with source references.
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 9:04 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Perhaps read it & then let me know your own thoughts.

For me, it was interesting to have a straightforward, understandable delivery , complete with source references.
Finally I can respond, having just finished it

Agree with your comments. I am exposed to a great deal of Treaty considerations where I work, and I am wondering if I have the courage to ask some key figures in that process whether they have read this. Because it certainly gives a different, and apparently supported, view, from what I have so far been given to understand. And, yes, I did read Claudia Orange's history before we actually arrived, on the recommendation of my soon-to-be employers: an account which this new book has reservations about....

Who knows what really happened? I have a very old UK history book of my father's from school, circa 1935, which is SO different from what kids are told now. Nevertheless, as you say, there does seem to be quite a lot of evidence referenced

Jan
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 9:14 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by Jan n Neil View Post
Finally I can respond, having just finished it

Agree with your comments. I am exposed to a great deal of Treaty considerations where I work, and I am wondering if I have the courage to ask some key figures in that process whether they have read this. Because it certainly gives a different, and apparently supported, view, from what I have so far been given to understand. And, yes, I did read Claudia Orange's history before we actually arrived, on the recommendation of my soon-to-be employers: an account which this new book has reservations about....

Who knows what really happened? I have a very old UK history book of my father's from school, circa 1935, which is SO different from what kids are told now. Nevertheless, as you say, there does seem to be quite a lot of evidence referenced

Jan
I'm sure whats in the 1935 book is far more accurate and truthful. I'd love to read it!


Just a shame today that the "natives" and I use that term very loosely, don't see the short-sighted actions that the government are taking here today. A bit like the short-sighted actions that were taken in the late 70's and early 80's in the UK!
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 9:28 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by davros1984 View Post
I'm sure whats in the 1935 book is far more accurate and truthful.
What would make you say that & why?

What I like about this book, The Great Divide. is that it doesn't lay claim one way or another. There is no slant. It leaves you free to reference back to source documents & that in turn leaves you free of historical bias or distortion.
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 9:38 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
What would make you say that & why?

What I like about this book, The Great Divide. is that it doesn't lay claim one way or another. There is no slant. It leaves you free to reference back to source documents & that in turn leaves you free of historical bias or distortion.
Long story, I won't get into it here. I'll look out for the Great Divide.
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 7:07 pm
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
What would make you say that & why?

What I like about this book, The Great Divide. is that it doesn't lay claim one way or another. There is no slant. It leaves you free to reference back to source documents & that in turn leaves you free of historical bias or distortion.
I beg to differ a little - Wishart basically accuses the Waitangi Tribunal of ignoring a lot of evidence from the 1860s and therefore putting a certain slant on the conditions around the Treaty signing, which in his view is inaccurate.

A thought provoking read, I have to say.

BTW the 1935 history book was all about how great the British Empire was and how the British quite rightly saved various natives from themselves..... Hugely biassed, but, just before WW2, a very interesting world view was being taught, certainly to my dad

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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by Jan n Neil View Post
I beg to differ a little - Wishart basically accuses the Waitangi Tribunal of ignoring a lot of evidence from the 1860s and therefore putting a certain slant on the conditions around the Treaty signing, which in his view is inaccurate.

Jan
Yes. I could go along with that.
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 9:19 pm
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Cool Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by Jan n Neil View Post

BTW the 1935 history book was all about how great the British Empire was and how the British quite rightly saved various natives from themselves..... Hugely biassed, but, just before WW2, a very interesting world view was being taught, certainly to my dad

Jan
I wouldn't say that is biased at all, in my opinion thats far closer to the truth. Thanks for explaining my POV.

NZ was (and still is to an extent) a savage country. Until the British arrived, very few could read and write, there was minimal infrastructure and all the things that most of us take for granted in the world today were put here by the British. Of course we're not allowed to say that anymore!

It's just a pity the *old* British are not still running the place today (I wouldn't trust any modern left-leaning politician). Kiwi's might have some etiquette and manners - especially on the roads!! Maybe the government wouldn't be selling off NZ's best assets and the Maori's would hopefully be fully integrated into NZ society (and have jobs) rather than just given a wad of money.

Ah well.

P.S. any chance you could give me the name of that 1935 book? Thanks.

Last edited by davros1984; Dec 23rd 2012 at 9:23 pm.
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Old Dec 23rd 2012, 11:02 pm
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Be careful or I'll wheel out the "Deckchairs on the Titanic" argument again about the treaty and it's lack of relevance and hence importance to an increasingly modern and diverse Nu Zillund.
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Old Dec 27th 2012, 3:17 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by davros1984 View Post
I wouldn't say that is biased at all, in my opinion thats far closer to the truth. Thanks for explaining my POV.

NZ was (and still is to an extent) a savage country. Until the British arrived, very few could read and write, there was minimal infrastructure and all the things that most of us take for granted in the world today were put here by the British. Of course we're not allowed to say that anymore!
So are you saying that the UK should still be run by the Italians (romans) then?
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Old Dec 27th 2012, 3:19 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Originally Posted by theghostofdustybin View Post
So are you saying that the UK should still be run by the Italians (romans) then?
Parts of it still are. (Glasgow anyway).
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Old Dec 27th 2012, 6:26 am
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Default Re: The Great Divide by Ian Wishart - The story of Nz and it's treaty.

Or the Chinese!
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