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Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Old Dec 18th 2007, 6:13 am
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Default Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

I was sitting at work today, reading the paper and about the recent meetings of VIP's trying to agree on just how much we are cocking up the planet, and what they are going to do about it.

NZ is already down the road to introducing a Carbon Credit Trading system which means lots of stuff, but mainly that to Joe Public it'll hit us in the pocket.

The NZ government admit that anything NZ does will not make a knat's cock of difference in the grand scheme of things, but it will continue to project NZ's green image.

So, I am just interested to hear if this is really the burning issue to Mr and Mrs Kiwi, or Kiwi To Be, or if you just don't give a monkeys?

I am leaning towards the opinion that the world has the technology and science to overcome any changes in our environment, and will put this to use as economics and necessity arise. No country's economy (apart from NZ it seems...?) wants to put itself at a disadvantage in the global market place by actively making changes that make no difference. Does it?

Do I want to live like the beardie greenies want me to? Heck no.

But what do you guys think?
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 6:34 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Uh... come again?

Sorry, submitted ITA paperwork today and am celebrating with some red wine. With sulfites... Sorry it's not organic.

I tend to try to go green as much as possible - I dry clothes outside whenever the weather allows, I take public transport to and from work, I recycle like a mad woman. Even in the US I recycled more than anyone in the neighbourhood. *polishes nails*

I don't put the heat on when it gets chilly out - I'll put on another layer (and snuggle with hubby).

My employer shares my concerns, and I don't care if what NZ does makes a jot of difference, because if everyone changed a tiny bit, it would make a massive difference in the world! My work had free showings of "An Inconvenient Truth" for everyone. I couldn't go but wanted to...
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:18 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Hey Maz - good on ya for getting the ITA in - I am profoundly jealous, but wish you all the best of luck with it (not that you'll need it).

My very obscure point is: Do you care? You obviously do, which is cool.

I try to but if I am truly honest, I don't believe that me not taking that car journey, or not buying imported out-of-season strawberries, will have one iota of difference. Even the whole of NZ doing this would not have one iota of difference. And from meeting numerous Mr and Mrs Kiwis, they seem to struggle to make it from day to day let alone have the luxury of making a 'green' choice.

Just makes me think: What's the point?

Plus, I like driving - and eating strawberries in Winter.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
I was sitting at work today, reading the paper and about the recent meetings of VIP's trying to agree on just how much we are cocking up the planet, and what they are going to do about it.

NZ is already down the road to introducing a Carbon Credit Trading system which means lots of stuff, but mainly that to Joe Public it'll hit us in the pocket.

The NZ government admit that anything NZ does will not make a knat's cock of difference in the grand scheme of things, but it will continue to project NZ's green image.

So, I am just interested to hear if this is really the burning issue to Mr and Mrs Kiwi, or Kiwi To Be, or if you just don't give a monkeys?

I am leaning towards the opinion that the world has the technology and science to overcome any changes in our environment, and will put this to use as economics and necessity arise. No country's economy (apart from NZ it seems...?) wants to put itself at a disadvantage in the global market place by actively making changes that make no difference. Does it?

Do I want to live like the beardie greenies want me to? Heck no.

But what do you guys think?
While i'm optimistic that technology will arrive to prevent most of the damage from global warming, I don't think sea level rises will be repairable by science - this is something which worries me about most of NZ's low lying coastal regions - even a meter rise will radically alter the face of NZ.
I think as the full effects of global warming become more definite, other countries will start putting such considerations above economy to an extent - as there would be a lot more money to lose in the long run by not doing so.
I also think that our current disposable attitude will have to change in the future - not just for global warming, but due to the diminishing resources we have left. It seems we have past a point of no return, such that if humanity fails in their current technological drive, there will not be enough resources left in the crust for another industrial or technological revolution. So recycling and consideration seem to be the way of the future.

There was an interesting article in new scientist this month which details the effects of an individual on reducing global warming, it didn't moralise, simply crunched the figures - and even a few changes to reduce carbon output, when projected across even a minority of a nation, made a large difference.

Last edited by misterjingo; Dec 18th 2007 at 7:38 am.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

I'm not overly concerned about global warming. I'm not 100% convinced it is happening. I still have this nagging feeling that all that is happening is just one of lifes cycles and it's just another stage of our evolution. The worlds been around for what? 4 Billion years! We must have had periods of unpredictability with weather and increasing temperatures before...
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:39 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

I do.

Ok technically i work for a conservation organisation but i know sfa about it really as it is not my area of expertise.

I grew up in the 80s when the big thing was "Greenhouse Effect" and the cfc's in our hairsprays. Oddly enough not so far removed from the current issues...

So, environmental effects aren't particularly new but perhaps they have been marketed a bit more effectively now?

But what I do beleive is that the way we treat our environment is having an impact. No, i couldn't argue whether Hurricane Katrina was caused solely by climate change, by regular changes in weather patterns etc, but i would say that on a local level things can be improved. The constant desire for "stuff" which comes in lots of packaging, a throwaway society where it is quite literally cheaper to throw something out than get it repaired (my cr*ppy cell phone is a case in point...) and the list goes on.

Do i beleive in climate change? Yes, because i don't believe our impact on the world has been particularly positive lately. But, do i actually know how big an issue it is? Not really.

But,i will continue to reuse, reduce and recycle because i do believe it is better for the world. It is better for my local environment.

Perhaps it comes down to the Think Globally, Act Locally Issue? I can only hope it has a global effect BECAUSE it has a local effect.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:47 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by simonmarkellis View Post
The worlds been around for what? 4 Billion years! We must have had periods of unpredictability with weather and increasing temperatures before...
Definately, including such things as mini ice-aces in the past 300 years. The difference now is that we are putting billions of tonnes of green house gases into the atmosphere each year which otherwise wouldn't have been there. The global climate has checks and balances, but we're also destroying these things too - such as deforestation and burning of peat bogs on an unprecedented scale. So while dramatic changes would occur without our help, they are gradual, and usually responses to various feedback. We're accelerating things along and also breaking the things which would balance such changes.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:49 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
Hey Maz - good on ya for getting the ITA in - I am profoundly jealous, but wish you all the best of luck with it (not that you'll need it).
Thanks luv!

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
My very obscure point is: Do you care? You obviously do, which is cool.
Yep sure do! It's very important. When I was a kid, there were "only" 250 million people in India. Today there are over 1 billion. Not picking on India in the slightest, just remember that statistic quite vividly.

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
I try to but if I am truly honest, I don't believe that me not taking that car journey, or not buying imported out-of-season strawberries, will have one iota of difference. Even the whole of NZ doing this would not have one iota of difference. And from meeting numerous Mr and Mrs Kiwis, they seem to struggle to make it from day to day let alone have the luxury of making a 'green' choice.
Grow your own. And freeze what you can. My parents still have a chest freezer, still grow some of their own fruit and veg (in their early 70s) though admittedly not as much as they did when my brother and I were young, but we had strawberries in winter.

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
Just makes me think: What's the point?
Um... the point is preserving the planet as much as possible for future generations. If we don't, we'll use up our natural resources and not be able to feed ourselves in way too short a time.

Originally Posted by Wiz'n'Ton View Post
Plus, I like driving - and eating strawberries in Winter.
See two responses above from me - grow your own and freeze it! As for driving... didn't I see a post about mountain biking from you?

When you make a few changes, it's easy to get greener.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 7:54 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by Kiwiprincess View Post
No, i couldn't argue whether Hurricane Katrina was caused solely by climate change, by regular changes in weather patterns etc, but i would say that on a local level things can be improved.
I lived in the US when Katrina happened. <soapbox> The federal government and FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) are/were utterly incompetent. Warnings from various agencies went ignored and the low-income, majority-black city was left to founder. 'Nuff said. </soapbox>
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 8:35 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Um... the point is preserving the planet as much as possible for future generations. If we don't, we'll use up our natural resources and not be able to feed ourselves in way too short a time.
But that's just my point. Me doing anything - heck, NZ doing anything - towards this is a mere speck of dust in the godawful hoover bag of shyte being pumped out by India, China, Russia, the US and Europe. I simply see it as a massive marketing exercise. I truly believe that in 2 or 3 hundred years, 20th and 21st century land fill sites will be 'mined' for the valuable resources they'll hold, and that it is ultimately all about economics.

Originally Posted by Maz View Post
See two responses above from me - grow your own and freeze it! As for driving... didn't I see a post about mountain biking from you?
Yebbut what if I don't have a garden? (which I don't) MTB'ing is great, but I drove to the hills with my MTB on the back of my car.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 9:09 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

It's a myth. There is no such thing as global warming. It's the natural cycle or the nature / rhythm of the world/universe/whatever. We have warmer decades and colder decades and it's all the natural balance of things. And has been thuswise even before the invention of the internal combustion engine and suchlike.

So I think I can safely say I'm in the don't give a toss camp.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 9:11 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

I actually find it quite staggering that people still don't care about global warming and all that it entails. It is happening now, we are already seeing the effects. Stephen Hawking thinks that Earth is on a knife edge that could within a few years, tip into an unstoppable chain of events that will end in the Earth having roughly the same atmostphere as Venus. If I can do even the smallest thing to prevent this then it is worthwhile.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 9:14 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by sinope View Post
I actually find it quite staggering that people still don't care about global warming and all that it entails. It is happening now, we are already seeing the effects. Stephen Hawking thinks that Earth is on a knife edge that could within a few years, tip into an unstoppable chain of events that will end in the Earth having roughly the same atmostphere as Venus. If I can do even the smallest thing to prevent this then it is worthwhile.
It's not that I don't care. I just don't agree that global warming actually exists in the way its been portrayed. I think it's just a natural cycle.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by TeamEmbo View Post
It's not that I don't care. I just don't agree that global warming actually exists in the way its been portrayed. I think it's just a natural cycle.
You should read Barry Maley's comments on this in today's Australian. He basically states that the present global warming hysteria, based largely on unproven scientific data, is driving us to disaster.

I am inclined to agree with him.
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Old Dec 18th 2007, 9:35 am
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Default Re: Global warming and all that jazz - do you give a toss?

Originally Posted by Tableland View Post
You should read Barry Maley's comments on this in today's Australian. He basically states that the present global warming hysteria, based largely on unproven scientific data, is driving us to disaster.

I am inclined to agree with him.
Well Barry Maley for all his theorising seems pretty ignorant about the science behind what he writes. If he did know his stuff, he would also know about global dimming and pan evaporation rates (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...ng_trans.shtml and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming).
In short, aviation pollution, coupled with industrial pollution from the newly industrialised nations is seeding much more cloud cover than we should have (the polution particles are near nano-scale, acting as seeds for moisture and so producing much more cloud cover). This in turn is reducing the amount of energy reaching the earths surface (as seen from pan evaporation), which explains the heating in the atmosphere, but negligible surface temperatres increases yet.
What this means is, we are currently being buffered from global warming by our own pollution, and once we start to reduce that, the effects of global warming will become much more apparent.

Last edited by misterjingo; Dec 18th 2007 at 9:42 am.
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