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Gas Fitting work to residence

Gas Fitting work to residence

Old Feb 5th 2008, 6:06 pm
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Default Gas Fitting work to residence

Well, this is our first post on this site so bear with me! After submitting ITA in September, we have finally received an e-mail today from our case officer.

It states
am in the process of verification checks on your application now. All going well, we will then need to make arrangements for work to residence visas for yourself and your family.

As a gasfitter, you require registration in NZ. You cannot obtain full registration until you begin working in NZ under supervision of your employer. Therefore, we can only grant you a Work to Residence visa to allow you to travel to NZ, obtain a job offer and commence employment.

Under Work to Residence, you have three months to arrive in New Zealand and you obtain a nine month work permit on arrival.
This has left us in a real catch 22 situation. Is there any way of deferring the start of the Work to Residence as 3 months isn't long to prepare kids, animals and either selling house or renting it out. Am also confused, does it mean that I can get a work permit as soon as I'm out in NZ in a permanent Gas Fitting job, or would I have to have passed the exams in gas fitting which are only held once a year?

Also, as I have just turned 50, is age going to be an issue, even though I'm fit and healthy? Incidentally my qualifications have already been assessed by PDGB.

People in occupations who get issued PR without having to gamble everything, i.e. selling their house without a guarantee of PR are so much luckier.

Would appreciate any input from anyone in the gas profession.
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Old Feb 7th 2008, 4:29 am
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Have we spoken before?

1] Your age will not be an issue.

2] Good to know you have a successful preliminary PGDB assessment under your belt.

3] If you are in NZ and have a gas fitting job to start, then you can apply for a work permit , no problemo. What you and your employer would do is apply to the PGDB for a Limited Licence. This will allow you to work legally in the plumbing and gasfitting trade. You will keep renewing this licence each year until you have full Nz registration . You gain that by means of assessments and exams.

What does your letter from the PGDB state you need to do to gain registration as a matter of interest. The PGDB recently altered the process for an overseas plumber or gasfitter to gain registration.

Right then. Sigh , sigh and more bloody sighs. It really does seem that although NZIS policy now states it requires PGDB registration, it really has no idea what that means or how it happens. The requirement for registration is a new one.

Originally Posted by nzis letter
You cannot obtain full registration until you begin working in NZ under supervision of your employer.
The above is not a true statement.

If you have the money , the time , a successful prelim. assessment with the letter stating you are eligible to sit registration exam & you are in NZ, then you can sit the thing. You don't need to be NZ employed.

Further, it's doubtful anyone would take the PGDB registration exams and assessments until they had been in NZ for at least a year if not more. There is a need to know NZ codes and standards for one thing.

I have heard of one overseas plumber that has gained PR . He was given that from NZIS despite the fact he could only show NZIS his letter from the PGDB following his successful PGDB preliminary assessment.

I wonder if they are offering a WTR because gasfitting is now on the immediate shortage list rather than the long term shortage list .
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Old Feb 7th 2008, 8:51 am
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Bevs

I'm doing this from work so haven't got all the details with me, but the PDGB stated my husband was eligible to sit the exam. This assessment was done in 2005 so don't know if NZIS will want another up to date one done.

Do you know if it is rare for gas fitters to be given PR as opposed to WTR?
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 5:31 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

After 3 years of deciding whether to take the plunge, and spending a thousand pounds in medicals in Knightsbridge, I am in total despair. This afternoon I received the following e-mail from my case worker

Thank you for your response. I actually have some bad news for you in regards to your application.

Upon further verification of your application, I have found that your Expression of Interest was assessed incorrectly. You had claimed and were mistakenly awarded 10 bonus points for your qualification and 15 bonus points for your work experience in an area of absolute skill shortage - Plumbers. I find that all your qualifications, work experience and your letter from the PGDB state your expertise are not as a plumber, but a gasfitter. Although regularisation of these trades are handled jointly by the PGDB, they are two separate trades.

As you are not eligible for the bonus points you have been awarded as a Plumber, you therefore do not meet the selection criteria to be Invited to Apply for residence under the Skilled Migrant category.

Your points allocation has been reassessed as follows:
10 points for your age
50 points for your qualification
30 points for your work experience
Total: 90 points

this is minus
10 bonus points for a qualification in an area of absolute skill shortage
15 bonus points for work experience in an area of absolute skill shortage

To meet the selection criteria you need to meet one of the following:
100 points or more with a job offer; or
140+ points without a job offer
After speaking with my Manager in regards to your situation, we have come up with the two following options for you:
Withdraw your application now for a refund of application fee; or
We will keep the application open for a couple of months while you look for a job offer in NZ.
A secure job offer will award you another 50 points, enough to meet the selection criteria.

Please read over the above and let me know your decision. I understand this will come as a disappointment to you and I apologise this has happened.

In regards to your concern below, we can only offer residence to a plumber or gasfitter if they obtain full registration while still in the UK. Often this is not possible as the applicant will need to attend an examination in NZ or complete working hours under supervision of their NZ employer. Particularly in the situation where the applicant has no job offer, we could only ever offer Work to Residence. We will however cross this bridge when we come to it should you decide to continue with your application.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
I did a full City & Guilds in gasfitting back in the 70's, gained through British Gas, had a spell of self employment, and also have a BA Hons degree although I accept that this doesn't count for anything as isn't gas fitter work related.

All the companies I have approached in NZ are not willing to give me a job offer without work to residence or PR so I'm in a no win situation.

This latest e-mail has left my family totally shocked, especially the children who had their hearts set on NZ. Obviously it is not meant to be.
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 8:12 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Hi, although we've not go to the stage of spending vast amounts of money we've been told that we won't be invited to apply after my husbands EOI was selected from the pool. He too is a gas fitter with management experience, he even gave that up to go back on the tools to try and help our application, but to no avail. We've been told that his qualification isn't recognised, even though he too trained with BG and has C&G Pt 1&2. We're a bit flummaxed by it all and have a few days to advise NZIS if we wish to proceed. Whilst we're thankful we haven't got further before being told this it still comes as a crashing blow when we've been so elated after the EOI was selected - so we can only imagine how you must be feeling after gettring so much further than us. Let us know how you get on
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 8:30 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

I'm so sorry you too have been let down over this.

I only showed my husband the e-mail from NZIS about an hour ago and he is absolutely gutted. I'm trying to put positive spin on it, i.e. everything happens for a reason etc etc, but am actually really angry. On a NZ Forum which I have subscribed to for many years there was recently a post about a carpet layer being given PR. I know there were some negative responses to this, but at the time didn't think too much of it. I think I am right in thinking that hairdressers can also be given PR before arriving in NZ. I'm not knocking carpet layers, hairdressers etc, who have probably worked very hard in their profession, but do these jobs carry the same risks as someone working with gas, or have they had to do a 4 year apprenticeship back in the days where it really stood for something?

I will wait for Bevs to post as she seems to know more about the system than NZIS do with regard to PDGB etc, but having been selected from the pool nearly a year ago, and having submitted our ITA last September feel our lives have been put on hold all this time.

Meanwhile the thousand pound we spent on medicals is still accruing interest on the credit card which is a real kick in the teeth, especially as I never use credit cards and only did so in this case as it was exceptional circumstances.

Wishing you best wishes...................


...... aka Mildred!
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 11:19 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Bloody nightmare :curse:

I just knew that the staff of NZIS do not exactly and correctly understand the PGDB route to registration for overseas plumbers & gasfitters. I've now heard of several interpretations of how they expect plumbers and gasfitters to meet the overseas qualification standard from NZIS and each was different.
Sorry to say but when it comes to the plumbing and gasfitting trade, NZIS are cocking up IMHO simply because they are interpreting the registration route wrongly. I know this doesn't help either of you faced with a seemingly brick wall.

I'd like you both to read posts 5 and 6 of THIS THREAD. Now, Spawny has applied as a plumber which is on the Long Term shortage list, not as a gasfitter which is on the Immediate Shortage list but that is incidental to what I am showing you.
The intimation from NZIS to Spawny is that the assessment letter from PGDB would be enough as it shows eligibility to sit PGDB registration. NZIS have not told Spawny they must have PGDB registration . Nor has this NZIS officer stated that Spawny must be in NZ plumbing work etc.

See what I mean?

I'll probably bung in several posts over the next day or so . It's Saturday here . Me and Him have quite a busy weekend ahead. Let's just keep touching base on this thread.


Right then. Deep breath everyone and lets see if any of this mess is salvageable for either one of you. Let's take it apart piece by piece & see whats left for each of you .

As you need to go back to NZIS with your decisions or options, let's try and give them your replies in a no nonsense ABC way. At the moment they have you on the back foot. You need to get them to look at your cases with new eyes.

I'll start with the basics that we all know and love.

1 - Gasfitting is seen by NZIS as a skilled trade

2 - The NZIS operations manual is quite clear about what is required by way of UK overseas gasfitting qualifications. A C&G parts 1&2 is recognised, particularly when it goes hand in hand with an apprenticeship.

3 - Gasfitting is on the Immediate Shortage List only. Therefore you cannot claim points for a skill under Absolute Shortage. Only Long Term shortage occupations can do this.

4 - As gasfitters , you must obtain a preliminary PGDB assessment of your gas qualifications. The outcome of the preliminary assessment must state that you are eligible to sit PGDB registration once here in NZ.
This assessment works twofold for NZIS.
[a] It gives them a verification that the gas quals are = to the standard
[b] It tells them the applicant can sit registration

5 - If you gain an NZ job offer gasfitting, you can apply for an NZIS work permit to get you here and working. You and the employer would apply for a PGDB limited licence at the same time.

6 - PGDB Limited licence is the licence ALL overseas gasfitters must hold until they pass the registration exam and practical assessments. The same applies to plumbers and drainlayers. Everyone tends to be on a Limited Licence for a good year or two before they take Registration. This is because the overseas person needs to learn and understand NZ gas/plumbing regulations , codes and standards. Makes Health and Safety sense really.

7 - An NZ employer can offer you a job. It is job offer first - Work permit/visa after. Not the other way around.

8 - PR should be possible without a job offer if you have enough points as gasfitting is seen as a skilled trade

9 - WTR may be offered in place of PR .
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 11:41 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Mildred


In regards to your concern below, we can only offer residence to a plumber or gasfitter if they obtain full registration while still in the UK. Often this is not possible as the applicant will need to attend an examination in NZ or complete working hours under supervision of their NZ employer.


Once again , this is not correct. Not just incorrect. Totally inaccurate. Particularly this

or complete working hours under supervision of their NZ employer
Nope. That is not part of the process at all. This person is mixing up licenses with registration.

and this

we can only offer residence to a plumber or gasfitter if they obtain full registration while still in the UK.
Whoever wrote that to you is taking a total stab in the dark. The PGDB Registration exam and assessments are only offered at Wellington NZ.


1- you need to get past this officer as she/he clearly hasn't taken the time to understand the process. It would be better to talk with the branch manager. Are you through NZIS London?

2 - Something from the PGDB to explain the process would be helpful . I am thinking of Kern Uren at the PGDB.

3 - Something from the PGDB to further confirm that your quals are assessed and that you are eligible to sit registration once here in NZ. Also, that you do not have to be in gasfitting work etc. That you only need the directive from the PGDB - i.e. the successful assessment letter. It would also serve to update your original assessment.

4 - The NZIS officer is , however, correct about the points when it comes to Absolute Skills shortage. Gasfitting is on the Immediate Shortage list , so you cannot claim points for Absolute Shortage.

5 - the NZIS officer is also correct about the difference between gasfitting and plumbing. Here in NZ , both NZIs and the PGDB see gasfitting and plumbing as individual trades. You cannot claim as a plumber if you are a gasfitter unless you have C&G 1 and 2 in plumbing and gasfitting. Not just gasfitting.


Originally Posted by nzis officer
........ Withdraw your application now for a refund of application fee; or
We will keep the application open for a couple of months while you look for a job offer in NZ.
A secure job offer will award you another 50 points, enough to meet the selection criteria. ]
Your application is short of points Mildred and that is because you cannot claim for the Absolute Shortage points. At least NZIS have recognised your gas quals. As NZIS state, if you can get the points via a job offer, then I see no reason why you shouldn't gain PR. You would need to uplift a work permit first. You would also have the PGDB limited licence to add weight to a PR application once here in NZ.

Your only option is to find a job IMHO.

Go back to NZIS and tell them about your medicals & the costs of £1000. See what shelf life NZIS will offer on these medicals given their cock-up. You want something from them in writing to state that they will accept your medicals if you don't manage to find a job for , say, six months or that in addition to a full refind of your fees , they will also refund your medical costs.

Meanwhile, lets start thinking gas jobs for you.....
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Old Feb 8th 2008, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

McGowans

1] Exactly what gasfitting quals and work exp do you have. Did you do an apprenticeship. Sorry, but I can't see it in your posts just at the moment.

2] Do you have the PGDB preliminary assessment.

3] How do your points breakdown.
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Old Feb 9th 2008, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

H Bev - he has C&G 1&2 6006, which isn't done any longer. e did his apprenticeship with BG. From your advice I think we've gone wrong at point 2, by getting too excited at having our EOI accepted and assuming that was it. We also cocked up the employer bit by interpreting the form as only requiring detail of former employers who could provide a reference - that bit is easily rectifiable, but the qualification bit I think will take a bit more time.

Thanks again Bev, sound advice as usual
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Old Feb 9th 2008, 9:44 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

McGowans

Originally Posted by mcgowans
...... we've been told that we won't be invited to apply .. He too is a gas fitter with management experience, he even gave that up to go back on the tools to try and help our application, but to no avail. We've been told that his qualification isn't recognised, even though he too trained with BG and has C&G Pt 1&2. We're a bit flummaxed by it all and have a few days to advise NZIS if we wish to proceed..
Originally Posted by McGowans View Post
H Bev - he has C&G 1&2 6006, which isn't done any longer. e did his apprenticeship with BG. From your advice I think we've gone wrong at point 2, by getting too excited at having our EOI accepted and assuming that was it. We also cocked up the employer bit by interpreting the form as only requiring detail of former employers who could provide a reference - that bit is easily rectifiable, but the qualification bit I think will take a bit more time.
Thanks again Bevs, sound advice as usual
Your problem stems from the fact that NZIS did not recognise the qual. Although I am not an NZIS officer, I really get the feeling they work from a list when it comes to qualifications. If it doesn't quite fit the list, then they look to an assessment for qualification verification.

The NZIS officer may have interpreted the gas C&G wrongly . When they didn't recognise the standard C&G, they may have conferred with the PGDB .The PGDB also have something of a list that they adhere to.

My suggestion to you is that you contact NZIS and ask them if they will keep your EOI as pending for a month/six weeks or so whilst you obtain further information to support your application.
Tell them that you will apply for an NZ PGDB assessment of your gas qualifications. Also state to NZIS that your gas qualifications are the tops - the creme de la creme as they came via a full apprenticeship of 3/4 years through British Gas. Subtly like, but still make it plain that these gas quals are fully qualified - time served and kosher.
Pile on the gas fitting experience . Use previous employers as contacts etc.
Compile a comprehensive CV.

The PGDB preliminary assessment.

Download the PGDB assessment form

Complete this with care. Put in EVERYTHING to support your gas assessment application.
You will need to include certified copies of your current ACS modules & CORGI registration alongside your C&G.


The PGDB should turn round your application within 14 days of receipt. Mail from the UK to NZ can also take around 14 days.
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Old Feb 9th 2008, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Mildred

The reason that your problem has arisen now with the NZIS points system is that when you first started looking at emigrating to NZ gasfitting was on the Long Term Shortage List. Since then ,it has moved to the Immediate Shortage List. This means less points. That is why you now need a job offer.
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Old Feb 10th 2008, 5:49 am
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

This is where the problem lies. So many different companies have been contacted, CV's sent off to job vacancies, agencies etc and they all want at the very least work to residence before they will even consider my husband. I think they are well aware how difficult and lengthy the process is for gas fitters coming into NZ so don't want to invest wasted time with interviews, putting jobs on hold etc when a great deal of the time the employee doesn't qualify to work in NZ in the first place.

Because of this mess, I'm not sure we could risk going on work to residence now as I don't have any faith in NZIS. Supposing we had been out there already, having sold up everything and removed the kids from good schools only to have NZIS say they had made a mistake and we had to come home to absolutely nothing. I work up in the middle of the night in a panic over this.
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Old Feb 10th 2008, 6:21 am
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Mildred

So many different companies have been contacted, CV's sent off to job vacancies, agencies etc and they all want at the very least work to residence before they will even consider my husband.
These employers do not understand the process at all then. It is a job offer first and then a work permit. Not the other way around. You could gain a job offer and then apply for a work permit. With a start date, the turn round time for permits can be very fast.

You would look for a two/three year work permit. Once out and working you would bang in your PR application.

when a great deal of the time the employee doesn't qualify to work in NZ in the first place.
But you do qualify to work in NZ. Gasfitter is seen as skilled and the occupation is on one of the shortages lists. A work permit or visa can come through really quickly once the job offer is in place and the PGDB limited licence would be quick too.

Because of this mess, I'm not sure we could risk going on work to residence now as I don't have any faith in NZIS.
OK. Just find the job offer and come on a general work permit to start with.... and... have faith... you are entitled to come here and we are all here to help.

I wake up in the middle of the night in a panic over this.
When we started with this , I found that a good glass or three of wine helped put everything into a hazy perspective. It is normal to feel complete and utter panic. I think if you didn't feel this , then you would need to see a neurosurgeon .

Perhaps we should look at acredited employers. These employers will know exactly what the processes are. It'll make bugger all difference to any NZ gasfitting employer whether you work on a PGDB limited licence forever, or go on to gain PGDB registration. All they want is the skilled worker to fill the vacancy.

They do prefer to know that you intend to arrive soon which is fair enough.

To get a job offer, it is best really to be actually here so you can do face to face interviews. Is this possible?

I did ask if we had spoken before, some while ago. Perhaps send a PM.
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Old Feb 12th 2008, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Gas Fitting work to residence

Originally Posted by mildred View Post
Well, this is our first post on this site so bear with me! After submitting ITA in September, we have finally received an e-mail today from our case officer.

It states

This has left us in a real catch 22 situation. Is there any way of deferring the start of the Work to Residence as 3 months isn't long to prepare kids, animals and either selling house or renting it out. Am also confused, does it mean that I can get a work permit as soon as I'm out in NZ in a permanent Gas Fitting job, or would I have to have passed the exams in gas fitting which are only held once a year?

Also, as I have just turned 50, is age going to be an issue, even though I'm fit and healthy? Incidentally my qualifications have already been assessed by PDGB.

People in occupations who get issued PR without having to gamble everything, i.e. selling their house without a guarantee of PR are so much luckier.

Would appreciate any input from anyone in the gas profession.
Hello, first post.

We are at the EOI stage at the moment, me the wife and the 3 kids submitted on Sunday.

I currently work for nationalgrid AKA transco as an active engineer on the UK
distribution network, first call TSE gas leaks etc, have also donkeys years of experience outside this IE my own corgi reg business domestic/industrial/commercial.

I seem to get the impression quote bloody nightmare, understanding your frustration the uk gas industry is probably one of the most tightly regulated ie
cert for competence for everything, requal every five years, hence more bureaucracy on the NZ side to endure.

No offence intended but being a carpet fitter etc would be far less stressfull, the word undervalued comes to mind.

Good luck anyway.

I sense a big grey cloud heading this way shortly..

Last edited by bigfoot; Feb 12th 2008 at 1:15 pm. Reason: spelling
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