Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Apr 16th 2013, 1:21 am
#31
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
You appear to have a letter giving his permission. He appears to have a promisory note from you for the 6k he is claiming needs to be paid.
Sorry but you DO need legal advice to sort out which takes precedence or has a reliance on the other and by which time the money has to be paid - which will depend entirely on how they are written/witnessed and refer to each other or are referred to by other documents or witnessed verbal exchanges.
Courts have backed the requirement for such funds to be paid upfront to a solicitor as a guarantee they will be available to fund such contact. Its not cut and dried, nor does he necessarily have "no leg to stand on".
Seek legal advice before doing anything further (including posting further here, you want real legal advice, not pseudo-opinion).
Sorry but you DO need legal advice to sort out which takes precedence or has a reliance on the other and by which time the money has to be paid - which will depend entirely on how they are written/witnessed and refer to each other or are referred to by other documents or witnessed verbal exchanges.
Courts have backed the requirement for such funds to be paid upfront to a solicitor as a guarantee they will be available to fund such contact. Its not cut and dried, nor does he necessarily have "no leg to stand on".
Seek legal advice before doing anything further (including posting further here, you want real legal advice, not pseudo-opinion).
Apr 16th 2013, 1:27 am
#32
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
2. As others have said, blackmail and extortion are criminal offences. Since there appears to be no basis/motivation for this other than extracting money from you, you could make a complaint to the Police and insist they investigate it as a criminal matter. See a solicitor on point 1 first, though.
Apr 16th 2013, 2:44 am
#33
221b Baker Street
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Miles from anywhere, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 14,125
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Drink!!! Never rains but it pours. Now we have the Visa, the job and the buyer for the house...the ex sends a letter stating that unless I give him £6000 within the next 17 days he will take away his permission for my 14 year old son to go to NZ with the rest of us.
Extortion?
Extortion?
As stated here, this is not a police matter.
Apr 16th 2013, 4:46 am
#34
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Why? Changing his mind isn't a Police matter. Withdrawing permission isn't a Police matter. Making conditions before granting permission isn't a Police matter. Emotional pressure isn't a Police matter.
Distasteful (to the OP). Awkward (in the extreme perhaps), Pressurising, all of these. But a Police matter??? Can't see it anywhere TBH.
It may have been possible for his permission to have been irrevocably given, or he may effectively have breached a contract, but neither of those is a Police matter either. As posted above this is a wholly civil matter and his permission is required so he has the balance of power but it all depends on what was written down on both pieces of paper.
Distasteful (to the OP). Awkward (in the extreme perhaps), Pressurising, all of these. But a Police matter??? Can't see it anywhere TBH.
It may have been possible for his permission to have been irrevocably given, or he may effectively have breached a contract, but neither of those is a Police matter either. As posted above this is a wholly civil matter and his permission is required so he has the balance of power but it all depends on what was written down on both pieces of paper.
Apr 16th 2013, 6:44 am
#35
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,213
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
You appear to have a letter giving his permission. He appears to have a promisory note from you for the 6k he is claiming needs to be paid.
Sorry but you DO need legal advice to sort out which takes precedence or has a reliance on the other and by which time the money has to be paid - which will depend entirely on how they are written/witnessed and refer to each other or are referred to by other documents or witnessed verbal exchanges.
Courts have backed the requirement for such funds to be paid upfront to a solicitor as a guarantee they will be available to fund such contact. Its not cut and dried, nor does he necessarily have "no leg to stand on".
Seek legal advice before doing anything further (including posting further here, you want real legal advice, not pseudo-opinion).
Sorry but you DO need legal advice to sort out which takes precedence or has a reliance on the other and by which time the money has to be paid - which will depend entirely on how they are written/witnessed and refer to each other or are referred to by other documents or witnessed verbal exchanges.
Courts have backed the requirement for such funds to be paid upfront to a solicitor as a guarantee they will be available to fund such contact. Its not cut and dried, nor does he necessarily have "no leg to stand on".
Seek legal advice before doing anything further (including posting further here, you want real legal advice, not pseudo-opinion).
Apr 16th 2013, 6:46 am
#36
221b Baker Street
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Miles from anywhere, Victoria, Australia.
Posts: 14,125
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Why? Changing his mind isn't a Police matter. Withdrawing permission isn't a Police matter. Making conditions before granting permission isn't a Police matter. Emotional pressure isn't a Police matter.
Distasteful (to the OP). Awkward (in the extreme perhaps), Pressurising, all of these. But a Police matter??? Can't see it anywhere TBH.
It may have been possible for his permission to have been irrevocably given, or he may effectively have breached a contract, but neither of those is a Police matter either. As posted above this is a wholly civil matter and his permission is required so he has the balance of power but it all depends on what was written down on both pieces of paper.
Distasteful (to the OP). Awkward (in the extreme perhaps), Pressurising, all of these. But a Police matter??? Can't see it anywhere TBH.
It may have been possible for his permission to have been irrevocably given, or he may effectively have breached a contract, but neither of those is a Police matter either. As posted above this is a wholly civil matter and his permission is required so he has the balance of power but it all depends on what was written down on both pieces of paper.
The facts as given in the later post (That's why I quoted both) really do confirm that this is NOT a police mattter.
(ex plod 30 years, very familiar with the Theft Act 1968)
Apr 16th 2013, 7:37 am
#37
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Pakaraka
Posts: 3,264
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
I think you are missing my point. The Facts as given in the original post made no mention that there was a pre-existing agreement. Therefore, it looked like an unreasonable demand.
The facts as given in the later post (That's why I quoted both) really do confirm that this is NOT a police mattter.
(ex plod 30 years, very familiar with the Theft Act 1968)
The facts as given in the later post (That's why I quoted both) really do confirm that this is NOT a police mattter.
(ex plod 30 years, very familiar with the Theft Act 1968)
Apr 16th 2013, 7:39 am
#38
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Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Apr 16th 2013, 7:44 am
#39
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Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
I emailed the head of Business Visa Immigration Dept in Wellington - not the first time we've had to contact him poor chap - and guess what?
HE CAN NOT JUST CHANGE HIS MIND ON A WHIM wanting some money now is not a good reason. Visas are in the passports, he was given a chance back in December to withdraw his permission, and he didn't. Unless he goes to Court now he can not do a thing.
Doesn't change how he has hurt his children yet again, this hasn't been about me, it's been about treating children with love and respect. You don't do this to children.
Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. God willing this will be the end of our troubles...house sale better go through smoothly!!!!!!!
Apr 16th 2013, 9:02 am
#40
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
I've unsubscribed from this thread, you need to take proper legal advice and go by that, drip-feeding facts to the forum isn't the way to go. Definitive legal advice is unlikely to come even from the head of the immi section - and if he is wrong then the Hague convention states a UK court must decide the matter, even if you all (or specifically the child involved), need to return to the UK while it decides.
Sorry I dont seem as unconditionally supportive as others on here but this is big and important, you need the right advice, emotional support wont be enough.
Your quote hinges on "unwarranted", he may have a fear once out of the country the money wont be paid, courts have supported that view in other cases...
Good luck with the solicitor meeting.
Sorry I dont seem as unconditionally supportive as others on here but this is big and important, you need the right advice, emotional support wont be enough.
Your quote hinges on "unwarranted", he may have a fear once out of the country the money wont be paid, courts have supported that view in other cases...
Good luck with the solicitor meeting.
Last edited by simonsi; Apr 16th 2013 at 9:04 am.
Apr 16th 2013, 1:19 pm
#41
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Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
I've unsubscribed from this thread, you need to take proper legal advice and go by that, drip-feeding facts to the forum isn't the way to go. Definitive legal advice is unlikely to come even from the head of the immi section - and if he is wrong then the Hague convention states a UK court must decide the matter, even if you all (or specifically the child involved), need to return to the UK while it decides.
Sorry I dont seem as unconditionally supportive as others on here but this is big and important, you need the right advice, emotional support wont be enough.
Your quote hinges on "unwarranted", he may have a fear once out of the country the money wont be paid, courts have supported that view in other cases...
Good luck with the solicitor meeting.
Sorry I dont seem as unconditionally supportive as others on here but this is big and important, you need the right advice, emotional support wont be enough.
Your quote hinges on "unwarranted", he may have a fear once out of the country the money wont be paid, courts have supported that view in other cases...
Good luck with the solicitor meeting.
Apr 16th 2013, 7:35 pm
#42
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Blockhouse Bay, Auckland
Posts: 2,797
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Hmmm, still subscribed somehow.
You need to reread this thread then:
Drip 1: He has asked me for 6k out of the blue (Ive been mugged)
Drip 2: I promised him the 6k in writing (errrr)
Drip 3: There are another 5 promises made (any of which, for all I know he may feel you have or will break)
Had you walked into a Police station as some wanted you to after Drip 1 and presented the obvious facts in this fashion, they would have viewed it as wasting their time. Fortunately they would have asked all the right questions before doing anything like rushing around and arresting your ex for extortion or blackmail (that may sound a little ridiculous now, eh?).
Anyhow, you know what to do. Good luck with it. Im not annoyed here or anything but just like your lawyer, the best advice comes when you give people the full story to the best of your ability.
You need to reread this thread then:
Drip 1: He has asked me for 6k out of the blue (Ive been mugged)
Drip 2: I promised him the 6k in writing (errrr)
Drip 3: There are another 5 promises made (any of which, for all I know he may feel you have or will break)
Had you walked into a Police station as some wanted you to after Drip 1 and presented the obvious facts in this fashion, they would have viewed it as wasting their time. Fortunately they would have asked all the right questions before doing anything like rushing around and arresting your ex for extortion or blackmail (that may sound a little ridiculous now, eh?).
Anyhow, you know what to do. Good luck with it. Im not annoyed here or anything but just like your lawyer, the best advice comes when you give people the full story to the best of your ability.
Apr 16th 2013, 7:59 pm
#43
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Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
Hmmm, still subscribed somehow.
You need to reread this thread then:
Drip 1: He has asked me for 6k out of the blue (Ive been mugged)
Drip 2: I promised him the 6k in writing (errrr)
Drip 3: There are another 5 promises made (any of which, for all I know he may feel you have or will break)
Had you walked into a Police station as some wanted you to after Drip 1 and presented the obvious facts in this fashion, they would have viewed it as wasting their time. Fortunately they would have asked all the right questions before doing anything like rushing around and arresting your ex for extortion or blackmail (that may sound a little ridiculous now, eh?).
Anyhow, you know what to do. Good luck with it. Im not annoyed here or anything but just like your lawyer, the best advice comes when you give people the full story to the best of your ability.
You need to reread this thread then:
Drip 1: He has asked me for 6k out of the blue (Ive been mugged)
Drip 2: I promised him the 6k in writing (errrr)
Drip 3: There are another 5 promises made (any of which, for all I know he may feel you have or will break)
Had you walked into a Police station as some wanted you to after Drip 1 and presented the obvious facts in this fashion, they would have viewed it as wasting their time. Fortunately they would have asked all the right questions before doing anything like rushing around and arresting your ex for extortion or blackmail (that may sound a little ridiculous now, eh?).
Anyhow, you know what to do. Good luck with it. Im not annoyed here or anything but just like your lawyer, the best advice comes when you give people the full story to the best of your ability.
Apr 16th 2013, 9:10 pm
#44
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 57
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
A difficult position that has been made more stressful because he is attempting to change the guidelines. I hope that you work and wing it over to NZ soon, having sold the house and given him other money that you agreed to. And that he visits his son with it!
Where are you going to in NZ. I'll be in Welly in January. X
Where are you going to in NZ. I'll be in Welly in January. X
Apr 16th 2013, 9:55 pm
#45
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,613
Re: Ex threatening to withdraw permission for son to go to NZ unless money is paid.
This post was originally in the bar. It was me that moved your post and the one response out to a place of it's own.
I see no intention to 'drip feed' by J19 at all. She has never done such a thing with this subject and I doubt she would start now. The posts for this thread have simply evolved, as they do. The full story is here on BE for anyone to read & J19fmm solicitor will have an entire library about this case. It has been a long and difficult journey . Am not sure why JAJ's, Sherlock's & J19's posts have all been pounced on in the way they have.
Most posters have said that legal advice is a way to go. The head of Welly Immy has now stated the visa situation is a done deal. This 6K is to remain lodged with a solicitor for the purpose of airfares ........one hopes.
Police matter - not a police matter. I personally couldn't be sure but I'd cover all bases, make sure it was known and they could only say no.
You know. The forum is all about caring , sharing, support & a wee bit of help /guidance along the way. Really can't see quite why J19fmm and some of the posters have been given a rough ride for simply using the forum as it is intended.
To be further clear here. J19fmm is currently in the UK. The ex has already given permission, had the cooling off period and did not withdraw the permission. This hasn't all been done on the back of a serviette. There is a legal agreement in place.