christmasoompa

You have to remember that people's views will be very dependent on where they are coming from and going to as well, as will the stats you're mentioning. The crime rate may be lower in NZ overall, and it could well be lower compared to where you're from, but I live in a part of the UK where we don't lock our doors. You mention class sizes and education statistics, but my children's class sizes have been no more than 17 kids at their lovely village primary school, and at their (current) secondary school they have a maximum of 25 kids per class (some classes are much less), but we live in an area of the UK with some of the best schools.

So it's so dependent on location in both countries, if you are in an area where these things are an issue, then I don't think anybody would blame you for wanting to move elsewhere for your children's sake. But pointing out any negative experiences isn't 'doom and gloom', it's just mentioning things that you maybe haven't considered, and that can't be taken in to account with statistics or surveys.

As BEVS said, visa first anyway, so hopefully you can find a way to get over there. Then a recce trip would be essential I think personally, before you spend a small fortune on emigration, to see what you think of the country yourself - once Covid allows of course! That will hopefully give you a better idea of what NZ is like and whether or not it will suit your family.

Best of luck to you.

Peter and Steph

Thanks, we appreciate that, I think we may take our honeymoon over there in August then we have a idea what your saying first hand, speak to people over there and have a proper nosey about
I'm certainly not from a area like yours, very different to be honest.
Thank you again

hallie_day

My brother is a police superintendent, specialising in recent years in gang crime, modern day slavery and anti terrorism.
I am in no doubt that this type of crime is more prevalent in the UK. But, even living in Tooting and Brixton for 20 years, I never experienced crime first hand, or witnessed anything more than shoplifting so it is not this that I am worried about.
I am concerned about social problems. I am concerned about my children's mental health and yes, I am concerned about their education.
Class sizes may be smaller (although my son had 23 in his class in the UK and 25 here) but without teaching assistants there will only be one staff member. Teaching assistants in the UK are qualified, often training to be teachers and a massive help in the classroom, effectively cutting class size in real terms.
I am genuinely interested where you found out that education success is higher here?
Unless is was an NZ source I highly doubt this. The top of NZ's 8 university's is only 80th or so in the world.

I am honestly not slating it for you - I have talked to a lot of immigrants from various countries and had every opinion from loving it and trying to move family over, to hate it and want to leave now. But all agree that there were some big surprises.

jarv5116

hey my bro,
I have been in Auckland for over 2 years now and really enjoy it. Me my wife and young 3 month old baby. Me and my wife both have good jobs and everything has been good. There pro and cons everywhere. people are trying to tell you the negatives.
You need to listen to what people are trying to tell you. Its not people been doom and gloom it's people that's been there and done it and got the t-shirt. They are not looking at everything through rose tinted glasses or getting advice of a friend of a friend.
you think what people are trying to tell u is doom and gloom it's the main reasons 99% of British people go home. Its a very very expensive mistake.
Its also something like 70% of British people go home within 5 years in NZ.
If you have decent paying jobs in the north of England maybe 30k a year. if you live in NZ on the same wages you will find the costs of living eye watering. I moved from Essex and it's quite a bit more expensive than Essex. I'm originally from Scotland. the cost of living will be double or treble in Auckland compared with the north of England.
NZ is very isolated country. You don't quite understand till you come here. I live in the main city Auckland.To me Somewhere like Nelson would be brutal. What NZ class as cities is like small towns back home. You cant just nip out and go to the next city for a change of scenery on the train or bus. its like a 3 or 4 hour drive away.
The winters here are just as cold as the North of England maybe even feel colder. Forget looking at weather charts ect. It maybe only get to 6 degrees in winter but it feels alot colder with no central heating, double glazing or insulation in a timber house with damp and condensation all over the house.
Family, if your close to your family and inlaws and get lots of help. it will be very very hard seeing them once every couple of years with no support network.
Choice, you need to get use to having limited choice with everything you can think of. My wife misses shops and stuff in the UK. Shopping centres and normal shops like Tesco or Asda. Forget the metro centre or the traff.
Crime in NZ. NZ has loads of crime aswell. Me personally not had one issue. I live in quite a rough area in Auckland (Manurewa). You don't seem to see as many junkies here or needles laying about. Meth seems to be the drug of choice here. Massive problem with gangs here. You need to understand it's not like gangs back home. Where teenagers hang around shops and street corners stabbing each other. You never see anyone hanging around in gangs here and never feel akward or intimidated . when people talk about gangs here. it's organised crime. people in there 20s 30s and 40s organising crime.
Also I was in the Army for years and worked with heaps of South Africans over the years. I couldn't quite understand why they were all strange and different to brits.Since I come here I can understand. They maybe white and look the same but totally different way of thinking and culture with everything you can think of.

Genesis

Good morning Peter and Steph, I came here in 2005 for a better life for my children and my then wife and I. I think I got it right. Alas the marriage eventually failed (it probably would have in the U.K. too) but the kids have had a wonderful childhood. The twins were 2 upon arrival their brother 4. I have never, ever, not once regretted my move here in spite of one or two significant fiscal setbacks that would not have happened in the U.K. Life is full of positive and negative incidents. The trick is to make sure the former outweigh the latter!!!!!!

Health and education are good here. There are many, many negative aspects about both NZ and emigration. Losing that regular connection with family and close friends, the isolation, geographically speaking and so on.

NZ has some horrendous statistics re bullying, suicide et al. No where is perfect. I have had huge issues whilst here....but I am still here. I would never return to the U.K. to live now unless maybe of course if all my kids defect back and want me there. But that is not likely to happen.

I do not get on particularly with the ‘kiwi psyche’. I have no interest in sport whatsoever, but I am happy here in my own little world. I have made a good life for myself here. Lots of solitude but I like it like that. Too many folk are irksome these days!

NZ is expensive. Money will always be an issue for many of us. In spite of the expense here if you are canny you can live well. The food market is just one short of a monopoly, a duopoly. Houses are expensive in relation to wages.

I think, given the world stage at present, personally speaking, that NZ is probably one of the best and safest countries to live in, taking absolutely everything into account. I do think you need to be a certain kind of person to get on here as an immigrant and to settle in, however ‘settling in’ turns out for you. Someone said so many folk do return to the U.K. Who knows why? Maybe their mindset was off from the start, maybe they genuinely hated NZ, it’s isolation and everything else about it. NZ is clearly not a nirvana for all. Maybe they just could not bear being away from extended kith and kin, I get that, like totally. The latter is a very vexatious issue and one to be borne very much in mind when making a decision upon any emigration.

Will you like it? The only way we ever know what anything is like is by ‘doing it, living it and giving it a jolly good go’. So long as we all give whatever we do our best shot we can do no more. If you choose to come and it does not work out you can return to the U.K. No shame in that. At least you gave it a go. At least you tried. Life is very, very short and we should all pack in as much (or as little) as we choose. It is our life and we must do what we wish to do in terms of how we live our lives.

What is important is that you follow your dreams and do what you want to do for you and your children.

Wishing you all the very best,

Dominic.

PS My main love of NZ apart from the beauty is the ridiculously low population. Of course this is moot (to a degree) if you live in a densely populated NZ city, but even so, when you alight from said big conurbations everywhere else is empty. I hate crowds hence I love NZ.

Moses2013

Quite true and lower population is also one of the reasons I prefer Ireland/NZ over England. As you say, money can be a big issue and for those moving from a low cost area to high cost area might be surprised. Especially if the sale of your house is barely the deposit for a new home, or rent is 3x more. There are luckily low cost options in Europe for those seeking the adventure and lower population. In the North of Spain or Central Portugal you can at least still buy an old stone cottage with land for 20K and live the simple life. Advantage for kids is that they can learn a 2nd language but lack of jobs/lower pay and language can be a problem for parents and brings other challenges. Plus of course is that you can quickly make money elsewhere if you have low monthly costs.

hallie_day

The money thing is a weird one. It makes me feel quite greedy talking about it as a big issue, but without it we would be screwed.

I have friends here who moved from the north of England to Auckland.
Their mortgage in the UK was about £350 pcm and they are now paying just under $1000 per week in rent. They sold their house in the UK but the equity is not enough to pay a deposit, and higher mortgage rates mean repayments would not be manageable anyway. The husband is also working all the hours that god sends in a specialist construction role and is pretty run down, meaning they cannot enjoy what NZ has to offer. They had to move house last Christmas to change schools because their daughter was being bullied and was very unhappy. Mum works in a primary school and is worried about education here compared to the UK, at least up to year 9. When I first arrived, they were one of the happiest British families I had met and they still love NZ, but are having second thoughts about it being the best thing for their family long term. I think their situation is probably fairly typical of those who end up returning home.

Purrball

Kiwi here, moved permanently to London over 30 years ago. Last trip back to NZ for six weeks in 2012, travelling south to north with about a dozen different destinations, from Nelson, Blenheim up through Wellington where I spent a week, then staying on farms and in towns in the Wairarapa, Taupo/Rotorua region and Tauranga for a while before spending a week or so in Auckland. It's taken many years and I wavered for a while about returning permanently to NZ, but have bitten the bullet and am intending to stay permanently in the UK because it suits my needs. Out of about eight secondary school or uni classmates that all moved to the UK at the same time, about half have returned to the UK and the rest, including me, have professional opportunities that would be quite difficult to come by in many parts of New Zealand. e.g. head roles at the BBC, interior creative directors for global hotel chains, managing teams in large publishers, running professional bodies etc.

Culture, education and social attitudes aside, which I have some fairly strong views about, the cost of living and the shoddiness of housing was particularly noticeable. Once you got over the clarity of the air and light, the chilled pacific vibe and the stunning scenery in places, London prices and average salaries were at about 60% of London salaries. Surprised how many middle-class professional friends of mine e.g. photographers, executives, managers, etc. were often buying clothes from charity shops, not because vintage, but just making ends meet. Also, people quite canny but spending time planning day to day shopping – using coupons, only shopping for specials, never buying things out of season, growing their own or hunting etc.

Coming back to the idea of a recce on your honeymoon, all I can say is that if you turned the table and were giving advice to a Kiwi family who was planning to move to the UK and wanted to come over for a 2-4 week recce (putting quarantine issues to one side), what advice would you give them to check out so that they were getting a little beneath the skin of things and weren't wearing rose-tinted honeymoon glasses?

hallie_day

I agree about jobs Purrball. The role in advertising that I have done for 25 years in London, just does not exist here. Instead 'my' responsibilities are divided up amongst other roles - people working with 'two hats'. At first I was amused by job ads and sent them back to work colleagues for a laugh.
"So I need to be an experienced creative producer, as well as fully trained graphic designer, and preferably a bit of media buying thrown in? And we thought we had it hard", type of thing.
At home each role is well and truly separate. Totally different skills, experience and training.
It's becoming less amusing now I've realised I am pretty much unemployable here!

laurenh804

Hi,
my younger brother has been out here 10 yrs from UK, married a Canadian and has 3 kids. Would never consider moving back to UK, has on the whole been very happy. Is now in a similar situation to a lot of people in that he would struggle to afford to go back. He’s also struggling to get residency as there have been huge issues with shifting goalposts on skills shortage lists and requirements, and now Covid- but that’s another story. In terms of schools my nephew started out in Wanaka, and is now yr 1 in Christchurch. He’s at a decile 10 school and although I think they were initially worried about the larger class sizes in chch they seem to do a lot of small group teaching based on ability, so he’s often in reading/ maths groups of around 4 kids. They have talked about extra tuition as they worry he isn’t being ‘pushed’ enough as a bright but quiet kid in a large class with one teacher/one assistant.
my parents have likewise been out here 8 yrs, running a business. They’ve had ups and downs but overall their quality of life has improved and despite my dad still moaning about the cost of cheese 8 years later and reminiscing about Tesco doughnuts I think they’re pretty happy and have been able to build a house for a fraction of the price they’d pay in the UK.
I’ve been living in London but am out here for a few months- I’m the only one to not fall in love with NZ, I can appreciate the scenery but miss too much of the buzz of living in a big city, the culture, travel opportunities and my network of friends.
would definitely echo everyone’s advice about visiting first. Nelson is beautiful and you won’t be disappointed by the surrounding scenery. I lived & worked there for a year in 2013, again ultimately was drawn back to London as I felt too isolated and there wasn’t enough going on. But... that’s just me. Another friend has stayed on since then and is out tramping/kayaking/skiing all year round and is applying for residency.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, it’s a very personal decision and you’ll never know til you’ve given it a try!

Purrball

Yes. Although I would say that in London you'll still see that many hats type of creative roles in the charity sector, unless its in the huge charities like Macmillan, Red Cross etc. Creative project management and design operations etc are only loosely tied to media buying! But to be honest, when I was there it did feel like Auckland had become overheated, much like larger cities all over the world because of work opportunities, but where in the past, perhaps organisations would also have had branches in Wellington and perhaps Christchurch before centralising only to Auckland.

The over-arching factors with New Zealand, in my opinion are: scale (population and density), distance from major markets, social behaviours from modern colonial history and its predominant economic focus on primary exports and tourism.

I could write a much longer post, but overall, the globally-ranked GDP per capita in New Zealand declined substantially when the UK joined the EEC back in the 70s, followed by highly-disruptive and ideological economic restructuring which stripped whole towns and regions of work, and its never fully recovered that status since, especially after an early stock market frenzy in the 80s with a subsequent crash, which drove many thousands of people to invest in property instead, pushingup prices as people were expecting returns with minimal risk. It was right at the end of the 80s when I bailed out. However, the golden economic years of the mid-1950s to the early 70s right up to the oil shocks really cemented the social idea that New Zealand was a paradise, with social provision like Sweden. And for many it was, but that's no longer the case... and as soon as CER (closer economic relations) with Australia came in in the 80s, unemployment rose and trans-Tasman fares dropped, many in the 90s took flight to Australia, including my brother. The Kiwi diaspora is almost on a par with the Irish, scattered across the world.

Someone mentioned gangs. Initially loosely based upon American motorcycle gangs like the Hells Angels, these came into greater prominence during the 70s and 80s around the same time. Organised crime sounds like the mafia. My guess is that the Mongrel Mob haven't yet infiltrated law, policing, business and commerce to the degree that the Mafia, Camorra or 'Ndrangheta have.

Anyway, to the original poster, I think you might have come slightly unstuck initially by saying you'd put in a lot of research but had never visited or explored the details and formalities of visa/immigration process. Singling out Nelson as your primary destination in such enthusiastic terms, reminded me of making exciting plans for when you land that new job in that perfect location and organisation, without preparing for the application and interview first. Coming from a family that moved around the world a bit when younger, sometimes on a loose plan, the strains of which eventually contributed to my parents divorce, all I'd say is don't burn your bridges, make a plan B and have a clear understanding with your partner defining what success looks like for your family. Don't underestimate how long it can take to grasp some of the nuances and details of navigating your way through another country's way of doing things.

Clappy

I visited Nelson once. In the museum there was a display showing the adverts from 70 years ago that were used to dupe English people to move there. In those days they were desperate for people to do well-payed harvesting work but that work was only available four months of the year and the people that fell for the con were unemployed for the other eight months of the year. They get people in from the pacific islands to do that work now so the English are not needed any more,

Moses2013

You are right with the money though and many people focused on scenery, politics or climate seem to forget everything else. Kids and parents will still have to go to the dentist, kids will want the new PlayStation and the great hiking opportunities that are 5 hours away become boring for kids when it's the only yearly holiday you can afford. Being poor is nothing to be ashamed of but the whole idea of emigrating at a certain age is usually to be better off finacially, or you've already made enough cash to live a more comfortable life in a low cost country. It's also worth nothing if the couple that moved 20 years ago tells you how great their life now is. It was a different time, different life and different job market. I know some call it negative attitude on BE but you kind of feel sorry for many families. When you are 20/single and all your belongings fit into a plastic bag, it's easy to say go for it. Again it can all work out but use common sense and have a plan b.

Bo-Jangles

Agree with you Moses too, we've been here for 15 years and had plenty of ups and downs, times of hardship adjusting to lower pay and adjusting to what was a much reduced quality of lifestyle; with far fewer choices of things to do and simply not being able to afford nice things because they were and still are very expensive here compared to the UK. We've adjusted a whole heap, such as accepting we have to pay $150 to $200 for a decent pair of shoes and just buy them less often and many things that were bothersome for us have have mostly progressed to same as they were in the UK, with shopping and internet deliveries and such still fall a bit short but likely have moved on plenty in UK that I don't know about. We now feel we're just about on par now with similar money and lifestyle factors we had 15 years ago in the UK but of course we're 15 years older and now have everything we want, except for travel which is still a big gap in our lives. A weekend away takes an age to get anywhere outside of Auckland and costs an arm and a leg unless you're prepared to rough it - even camping and especially campervanning are expensive.

EyeResign

Hi Peter and Steph. I'm making the jump with my wife and two daughters (2.5y and 8m) this December. I think most folks on here will have come over a few years ago, so I might be a source of info as it happens! For background, I have a job I have started remotely in Auckland and we've been approved for entry during Covid. Feel free to message me directly.