Do you really want to come to NZ?
Oct 28th 2008, 10:07 pm
#256
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
Joined: May 2007
Location: wellington
Posts: 1,363
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
Let’s qualify: Kiwis are allowed to work in the UK for two years and land there in the UK with a work visa. That’s the first difference
Thats not a difference - the only difference is time. Brits only get one year, kiwis now, under recent changes can work the whole two years). And then there are the various visas which follow on from that.
For folk coming to New Zealand they have to jump through many hoops for the NZ immigration and usually that means – having a skill as well as LOTS OF COSTS that are the immigrant will have to pay New Zealand in the various hoop-jumping stages. I am of course not talking about skills at the basic level of the ability to use a phone or give directions. Personally I don’t see that as a skilled job - it is usually IT and Medical are the most sought after skills for NZ currently.
I don't disagree with that. However, what I am saying is that in many ways the 'local experience' is 'learned experience'. To a different level but I kept those examples deliberately very broad. It is why I don't think that requiring local experience is a good enough reason for a job. Ditto with the comment about about lawyers et al having a lot of experience. They can learn the local knowledge - it is why i don't think the requirement is acceptable. As you and others say - the knowledge about the job is there. Learning local info, situations can be done, at various levels obviously (it's why nurses do seminars etc)
I would imagine that a Kiwi granting an interview to a recent immigrant would understand that they ( the new immigrant) may still be learning their way around and the basic stuff [B]but I think the given would be if they have an engineering degree or PHD they can use a phone and rent a house.
I wasn't saying that.
By comparison – this is not the same as someone being able to use the phone, give directions and talk English that would be understood in London – probably the most cosmopolitan city in the WORLD
Again with the phone. I am not quite sure why you are disagreeing - my point was that 'local' experience can be learned and shouldn't be an issue. Whether it means how children learn in a Pacific Island setting in a decile one area, or how New Zealand schools are administered or whether a Marine Biologist can learn about fish in NZ. All professional skills. The phone reference was a general example on a low level. I get the distinct impression you are dismissing a very reasonable comment (that whatever the level, a dismissal of the applicant for not having local experience is unacceptable) simply because of the example I gave. That's ok.
Thats not a difference - the only difference is time. Brits only get one year, kiwis now, under recent changes can work the whole two years). And then there are the various visas which follow on from that.
For folk coming to New Zealand they have to jump through many hoops for the NZ immigration and usually that means – having a skill as well as LOTS OF COSTS that are the immigrant will have to pay New Zealand in the various hoop-jumping stages. I am of course not talking about skills at the basic level of the ability to use a phone or give directions. Personally I don’t see that as a skilled job - it is usually IT and Medical are the most sought after skills for NZ currently.
I don't disagree with that. However, what I am saying is that in many ways the 'local experience' is 'learned experience'. To a different level but I kept those examples deliberately very broad. It is why I don't think that requiring local experience is a good enough reason for a job. Ditto with the comment about about lawyers et al having a lot of experience. They can learn the local knowledge - it is why i don't think the requirement is acceptable. As you and others say - the knowledge about the job is there. Learning local info, situations can be done, at various levels obviously (it's why nurses do seminars etc)
I would imagine that a Kiwi granting an interview to a recent immigrant would understand that they ( the new immigrant) may still be learning their way around and the basic stuff [B]but I think the given would be if they have an engineering degree or PHD they can use a phone and rent a house.
I wasn't saying that.
By comparison – this is not the same as someone being able to use the phone, give directions and talk English that would be understood in London – probably the most cosmopolitan city in the WORLD
Again with the phone. I am not quite sure why you are disagreeing - my point was that 'local' experience can be learned and shouldn't be an issue. Whether it means how children learn in a Pacific Island setting in a decile one area, or how New Zealand schools are administered or whether a Marine Biologist can learn about fish in NZ. All professional skills. The phone reference was a general example on a low level. I get the distinct impression you are dismissing a very reasonable comment (that whatever the level, a dismissal of the applicant for not having local experience is unacceptable) simply because of the example I gave. That's ok.
Last edited by Kiwiprincess; Oct 28th 2008 at 10:10 pm.
Oct 28th 2008, 10:10 pm
#257
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
The term “kind of” is very loose 
As in
Is it “kind of ” important that potential immigrants considering New Zealand know what they are “kind of” in for - right ?
There is not such a thing as Brit or London experience in the same context as KIWI EXPERIENCE You may have realised that dumbing yourself down in London doesn’t work and over there you are required to get up-to-speed. But NOWHERE were you told that you didn’t have London experience in the same context as highly skilled & qualified people here are told they are NOT EMPLOYABLE due to LACK OF KIWI EXPERIENCE – am I right?
That is what I call “kind of ” misleading and that I find “kind of” unfair to people that may be considering moving their whole life & family over to New Zealand
I am also interested to hear what issues you believe you faced that people immigrating to New Zealand for the very first time will experience.
Didn’t you have family here in new Zealand to return to ?
As far as my experiences with the banking fraternity ( done a lot of business in that area) the term “kind of” doesn’t fit it is either – yes or no - so I must say it concerns me the way you chose your terminology.
If I had to send you a proposal or contact with “maybe” and “kind of” you would certainly ( I hope) consider my business as non committal and lacking professionalism – yes ?
In the same context – I would expect that folk taking on a MAJOR decision to move to New Zealand would be offered more - yes or no info.
Being in the financial area I am sure that you understand that every 2.5 immigrants coming into New Zealand creates one job for a Kiwi ? That’s a pretty good financial aspect would you say – yes , no or kind of ?
As in
Is it “kind of ” important that potential immigrants considering New Zealand know what they are “kind of” in for - right ?
There is not such a thing as Brit or London experience in the same context as KIWI EXPERIENCE
You may have realised that dumbing yourself down in London doesn’t work and over there you are required to get up-to-speed. But NOWHERE were you told that you didn’t have London experience in the same context as highly skilled & qualified people here are told they are NOT EMPLOYABLE due to LACK OF KIWI EXPERIENCE – am I right?That is what I call “kind of ” misleading and that I find “kind of” unfair to people that may be considering moving their whole life & family over to New Zealand
I am also interested to hear what issues you believe you faced that people immigrating to New Zealand for the very first time will experience.
Didn’t you have family here in new Zealand to return to ?
As far as my experiences with the banking fraternity ( done a lot of business in that area) the term “kind of” doesn’t fit it is either – yes or no - so I must say it concerns me the way you chose your terminology.
If I had to send you a proposal or contact with “maybe” and “kind of” you would certainly ( I hope) consider my business as non committal and lacking professionalism – yes ?
In the same context – I would expect that folk taking on a MAJOR decision to move to New Zealand would be offered more - yes or no info.
Being in the financial area I am sure that you understand that every 2.5 immigrants coming into New Zealand creates one job for a Kiwi ? That’s a pretty good financial aspect would you say – yes , no or kind of ?
Oct 28th 2008, 10:33 pm
#258
you dewty owld maan!
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: is practically perfect in every way
Posts: 5,565
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
There's always an exception which proves the rule. I agree that they need a fixed time period in place. One of the kiwi approaches around this seems to be to offer a contract position and then try to get you to sign on the dotted line if you are OK. Which is BS, cos normally on a contract they can biff you with little NOTICE (1 week). This actually happened to me. I turned down a full-time position whilst contracting and the next day was given the boot. Keep that in mind if contracting in IT!
Also there are many migrants, particularly the very skilled and experienced, who report this type of treatment. Plus there is the whole issue of "dumbing down" - where you are told you can't use your skills because you don't have the NZ experience in that area or you are not "qualified"; only to find that the "qualified" people have less relevant experience and their qualifications are not really qualifications at all - just been doing it for "donkeys years"...
which was the excuse the 70-something Kiwi driver gave to my wife after he drove into our stationary hire car on a car park and proceeded to drive off carrtying bits of the door with him - he siad it "can't be my fault as I have been driving so long it was because you were parked at the edge of the space"....luckily he was insured....and the hire company gave us our excess back in the end......
Oct 28th 2008, 10:50 pm
#259
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: AUCKLAND
Posts: 146
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
I feel I have put enough information out there for most people to decide whether to consider whether my opinion worthwhile taking into account or not. I'm not going to get into the semantics of the words I have used - I used words in a particular context of the thread at that time, and people should interpret them as such.
As they say – “read the small print”
The context of this thread is – DO YOU REALLY WANT TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND.
This is not about saying “your” opinion is worthwhile or not - BUT …
Everybody’s opinion is worthwhile
I see it time & time again on the New Zealand section of this site that when anybody says anything negative about New Zealand the same old crew are on them. There is a constant trend in this forum of those that wish to discuss the negative issues of New Zealand get this barrage of insults and other members – whom if you start to prod will find are mostly Kiwis.
I have had several PMs to this regard.
That IS NOT a balanced view and ultimately based on the history of New Zealand promoting the country not quite (small print again) as it really is.
The question I would suggest anyone considering New Zealand is ask for the negative side of the country for immigrants who have been there done that on an comparing apples with apples basis.
I.e. if they want to hear what it is like for first time to New Zealand don’t ask a retuning Kiwi.
I am sure that you understand that
Oct 28th 2008, 11:14 pm
#260
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: AUCKLAND
Posts: 146
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
Hey Southerner,
Me thinks you're a tad para about something
I guess the aliens are after you
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi
Did you use to be Campbells? You have quite a similar background
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookin2Oz
There are quite a few Scottish / South Africans in New Zealand.
Couldn’t find anything on the members list here only a Campbell with no similarity.
Hmmm - didn't answer the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookin2Oz
Couldn’t find anything on the members list here only a Campbell with no similarity.
Thats because Campbells' account was deleted.
Soup man, you're back on ignore!
.................................................. ..................
I guess this is just typical of the Kiwi attitude
Scary
Oct 28th 2008, 11:16 pm
#261
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 164
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
How can a Kiwi tell another migrant what they will encounter? They can't unless they have walked in the migrants' shoes.Unless a kiwi has been rejected for a job because his qualification wasn't obtained in New Zealand. Or, because they don't have the mythical "Kiwi experience" how can they contribute?
More to the point, what arrogance they display when they then dare to tell migrants who do experience this - and complain about it - that they are just being "negative".
Nice method of arguing. Call somebody a whinger. Checkmate.
Oct 28th 2008, 11:42 pm
#262
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Liverpool U.K.
Posts: 325
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
As they say – “read the small print”
The context of this thread is – DO YOU REALLY WANT TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND.
This is not about saying “your” opinion is worthwhile or not - BUT …
Everybody’s opinion is worthwhile
I see it time & time again on the New Zealand section of this site that when anybody says anything negative about New Zealand the same old crew are on them. There is a constant trend in this forum of those that wish to discuss the negative issues of New Zealand get this barrage of insults and other members – whom if you start to prod will find are mostly Kiwis.
I have had several PMs to this regard.
That IS NOT a balanced view and ultimately based on the history of New Zealand promoting the country not quite (small print again) as it really is.
The question I would suggest anyone considering New Zealand is ask for the negative side of the country for immigrants who have been there done that on an comparing apples with apples basis.
I.e. if they want to hear what it is like for first time to New Zealand don’t ask a retuning Kiwi.
I am sure that you understand that
The context of this thread is – DO YOU REALLY WANT TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND.
This is not about saying “your” opinion is worthwhile or not - BUT …
Everybody’s opinion is worthwhile
I see it time & time again on the New Zealand section of this site that when anybody says anything negative about New Zealand the same old crew are on them. There is a constant trend in this forum of those that wish to discuss the negative issues of New Zealand get this barrage of insults and other members – whom if you start to prod will find are mostly Kiwis.
I have had several PMs to this regard.
That IS NOT a balanced view and ultimately based on the history of New Zealand promoting the country not quite (small print again) as it really is.
The question I would suggest anyone considering New Zealand is ask for the negative side of the country for immigrants who have been there done that on an comparing apples with apples basis.
I.e. if they want to hear what it is like for first time to New Zealand don’t ask a retuning Kiwi.
I am sure that you understand that
Oct 28th 2008, 11:53 pm
#263
Banned
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: AUCKLAND
Posts: 146
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
Exactly. How can a Kiwi tell another migrant what they will encounter? They can't unless they have walked in the migrants' shoes.
Unless a kiwi has been rejected for a job because his qualification wasn't obtained in New Zealand. Or, because they don't have the mythical "Kiwi experience" how can they contribute?
More to the point, what arrogance they display when they then dare to tell migrants who do experience this - and complain about it - that they are just being "negative".
Nice method of arguing. Call somebody a whinger. Checkmate.
How can a Kiwi tell another migrant what they will encounter? They can't unless they have walked in the migrants' shoes.Unless a kiwi has been rejected for a job because his qualification wasn't obtained in New Zealand. Or, because they don't have the mythical "Kiwi experience" how can they contribute?
More to the point, what arrogance they display when they then dare to tell migrants who do experience this - and complain about it - that they are just being "negative".
Nice method of arguing. Call somebody a whinger. Checkmate.
Yes Jokerman,
How can a Kiwi offer their experience of being shut-out of jobs in New Zealand due to lack of Kiwi experience.
I am sorry but offering their London experience is JUST NOT THE SAME. London is the “kind of” most multi-cultural city in the world. I would imagine that Southerner has just shot himself in the foot.
I just don’t get it myself and the questions I asked Southerner was basically what his experience was in the UK and how he thought he had been on the receiving end when he did his backpacking thing in London.
He was certainly not an immigrant to New Zealand but rather a RETURNING KIWI so definitely NOT THE SAME. The sad part is when I asked him (or her) direct questions he went all funny.
I guess this is once again a fine example of CULTURAL DIFFERENCES between Kiwi and Brit. From my “kind of” experience here in new Zealand if you ask questions that the Kiwi’s don’t like they get all weird on you and in a work situation I have experienced that A GREAT DEAL OF TIMES.
I guess this must be a sample of the Kiwi experience that immigrants lack
Oct 29th 2008, 12:35 am
#264
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
I can honestly say I do not believe I have ever stated somebody is just being negative, or called anybody a whinger.
Oct 29th 2008, 1:07 am
#265
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,787
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
How to upset the happy clappers: 1) N.Z. wages are crap,2) The houses are mould ridden damp boxes in winter, 3) What is there to do after 12 months? when the boredom sets in and you have burned your bridges with no escape plan. Best to just paint a very false picture as they do and live the ultimate lie. How sad
then again we have good wages for NZ standards a nice well maintained and fully renovated house, and been here well over 12 months and feeling better not worse...but I will let you know when I do .
Oct 29th 2008, 1:37 am
#266
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
How to upset the happy clappers: 1) N.Z. wages are crap,2) The houses are mould ridden damp boxes in winter, 3) What is there to do after 12 months? when the boredom sets in and you have burned your bridges with no escape plan. Best to just paint a very false picture as they do and live the ultimate lie. How sad
Oct 29th 2008, 1:54 am
#267
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 164
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
One of the most annoying things in the UK for me was the home delivery service that would bring things like milk that would expire the next day.
I'll probably get flamed, but I had 2 different experiences in the UK - London supermarkets were terrible, the ones in Hove were great. The difference was the London ones seemed to be totally staffed by immigrants that just didn't give a monkeys about the food and had bad attitudes. The one in Hove was staffed by local English people and everything was better - presentation, no out of date stuff etc. Just more pride shown in their jobs.
I'll probably get flamed, but I had 2 different experiences in the UK - London supermarkets were terrible, the ones in Hove were great. The difference was the London ones seemed to be totally staffed by immigrants that just didn't give a monkeys about the food and had bad attitudes. The one in Hove was staffed by local English people and everything was better - presentation, no out of date stuff etc. Just more pride shown in their jobs.
Last edited by Jokerman; Oct 29th 2008 at 1:57 am.
Oct 29th 2008, 1:56 am
#268
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Epsom
Posts: 1,705
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
You've clearly never lived in London and experienced the transient, rude and totally 'don't give a shit' attitude of most supermarket workers.
Oct 29th 2008, 2:01 am
#269
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 164
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
Also, i've lived in London. Know it well!
You're not related to the "duke of hazzard' are you?
To a driving instructor in Scotland: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them through the test?"
To a Nigerian diplomat in traditional Nigerian garb: "You look as if you’re ready for bed."
On seeing a fuse box filled with wires, during a visit to an electronics company: "This looks like it was put in by an Indian."
To a chubby 13-year-old boy at a space exploration exhibit, pointing to a space capsule: "You’ll have to lose weight if you want to go in that."
To a smoke-detector activist who lost two of her children in a house fire: "My smoke alarm is a damn nuisance. Every time I run my bath, the steam sets it off and I’ve got firefighters at my door."
To members of the British Deaf Association, while pointing to a loudspeaker playing Caribbean music: "No wonder you are deaf."
To a tourist, during a state visit to Hungary: "You can’t have been here long, you’ve not potbelly."
Speaking to British students studying in China: "If you stay here much longer, you’ll all be slitty-eyed."
On the "key problem" facing Brazil: "Brazilians live there."
On his daughter Princess Anne: "If it doesn’t fart or eat hay, she isn’t interested."
On seeing a picture once owned by England’s King Charles I in the Louvre in Paris: "So I said to the Queen, ‘Shall we take it back?’"
To a Nigerian diplomat in traditional Nigerian garb: "You look as if you’re ready for bed."
On seeing a fuse box filled with wires, during a visit to an electronics company: "This looks like it was put in by an Indian."
To a chubby 13-year-old boy at a space exploration exhibit, pointing to a space capsule: "You’ll have to lose weight if you want to go in that."
To a smoke-detector activist who lost two of her children in a house fire: "My smoke alarm is a damn nuisance. Every time I run my bath, the steam sets it off and I’ve got firefighters at my door."
To members of the British Deaf Association, while pointing to a loudspeaker playing Caribbean music: "No wonder you are deaf."
To a tourist, during a state visit to Hungary: "You can’t have been here long, you’ve not potbelly."
Speaking to British students studying in China: "If you stay here much longer, you’ll all be slitty-eyed."
On the "key problem" facing Brazil: "Brazilians live there."
On his daughter Princess Anne: "If it doesn’t fart or eat hay, she isn’t interested."
On seeing a picture once owned by England’s King Charles I in the Louvre in Paris: "So I said to the Queen, ‘Shall we take it back?’"
Last edited by Jokerman; Oct 29th 2008 at 2:09 am.
Oct 29th 2008, 2:19 am
#270
Sleazy Dippin Doodle
Joined: May 2007
Location: wellington
Posts: 1,363
Re: Do you really want to come to NZ?
Jokerman - he's done it again.
Tourism "National Prostitution" http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4742876a34.html
Tourism "National Prostitution" http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4742876a34.html