Do we return ???
#16
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Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Northland New Zealand
Posts: 587
Re: Do we return ???
Secondly, if you dislike NZ and the people so much don't even contemplate coming back. You would be the migrant so you need to make some effort towards them. Perhaps you should consider Oz...if you meet their criteria.
#17
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place !!!
Posts: 120
Re: Do we return ???
mmm, Bevs is trying to offer FREE HELP & ADVICE, why are you taking your frustrations out on her!
Secondly, if you dislike NZ and the people so much don't even contemplate coming back. You would be the migrant so you need to make some effort towards them. Perhaps you should consider Oz...if you meet their criteria.
Secondly, if you dislike NZ and the people so much don't even contemplate coming back. You would be the migrant so you need to make some effort towards them. Perhaps you should consider Oz...if you meet their criteria.
I dont dislike all NZ peeps at all, and I think if you read properly what I have written, you will see. I met some really nice peeps in NZ, but my work experience was poor to say the least. And I believe to this day I wasnt given a fair chance when there. So yeah emotive words, angry words, but they are not intended at anyone on here. Lost loads of money, a house, my parents brother and sister in the equation, wouldnt you be alittle bit angry or frustrated???? The reason for a return would for us to be with my family. I do appreciate the comments on here.
#18
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 53
Re: Do we return ???
Sorry I am not taking my frustrations out on her, but I am really annoyed by this whole incident, and my words may come accross as angry, which I am sure you will understand after selling my family home, my whole family moving to NZ, and being given cra* in return.
I dont dislike all NZ peeps at all, and I think if you read properly what I have written, you will see. I met some really nice peeps in NZ, but my work experience was poor to say the least. And I believe to this day I wasnt given a fair chance when there. So yeah emotive words, angry words, but they are not intended at anyone on here. Lost loads of money, a house, my parents brother and sister in the equation, wouldnt you be alittle bit angry or frustrated???? The reason for a return would for us to be with my family. I do appreciate the comments on here
I dont dislike all NZ peeps at all, and I think if you read properly what I have written, you will see. I met some really nice peeps in NZ, but my work experience was poor to say the least. And I believe to this day I wasnt given a fair chance when there. So yeah emotive words, angry words, but they are not intended at anyone on here. Lost loads of money, a house, my parents brother and sister in the equation, wouldnt you be alittle bit angry or frustrated???? The reason for a return would for us to be with my family. I do appreciate the comments on here
#19
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place !!!
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Re: Do we return ???
I didnt read it as you getting annoyed with bev or NZ. Sounds ike you had a bad work experience with some people. You will ahve to put up with getting called a pom, but I suppose its all how it is said. Good on you fro recognising that maybe your previous bad experience maybe was down to you picking an area of NZ that didnt suit you, and getting unlucky with a job. Hopefully this time round you will be luckier.. and since luck is where oppurtunity meets preparation, I am sure you will be luckier
Just cant see it as being in Auckland....
#20
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Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Northland New Zealand
Posts: 587
Re: Do we return ???
Sorry I am not taking my frustrations out on her, but I am really annoyed by this whole incident, and my words may come accross as angry, which I am sure you will understand after selling my family home, my whole family moving to NZ, and being given cra* in return.
I dont dislike all NZ peeps at all, and I think if you read properly what I have written, you will see. I met some really nice peeps in NZ, but my work experience was poor to say the least. And I believe to this day I wasnt given a fair chance when there. So yeah emotive words, angry words, but they are not intended at anyone on here. Lost loads of money, a house, my parents brother and sister in the equation, wouldnt you be alittle bit angry or frustrated???? The reason for a return would for us to be with my family. I do appreciate the comments on here.
I dont dislike all NZ peeps at all, and I think if you read properly what I have written, you will see. I met some really nice peeps in NZ, but my work experience was poor to say the least. And I believe to this day I wasnt given a fair chance when there. So yeah emotive words, angry words, but they are not intended at anyone on here. Lost loads of money, a house, my parents brother and sister in the equation, wouldnt you be alittle bit angry or frustrated???? The reason for a return would for us to be with my family. I do appreciate the comments on here.
When I came here I accepted I was the immigrant, I hadn't been educated or trained in NZ so didn't expect them to roll out the red carpet. I didn't mind doing some training to bring me up to their expectations, eventhough I feel my experience and knowledge was of a higher standard, when in Rome as they say! You are the outsider when you come here so I think wherever you move to you need to accept some people will feel you are not suitably qualified, some people will call you a pom and some people will perceive your attitude as aggressive, don't think it is restricted to Auckland I should think it will be the same wherever you go...with a small faction of people.
After all the Kiwis didn't make you give up your life in the UK to come and live in their country, you chose to...not wanting to be critical or anything but it's you that's making the choices so you need to accept responsibility for the choices you make...it costs a lot to emigrate so unless you are willing to be more accomodating and flexible in your attitude give it some serious thought before doing it again.
But if you do...Good Luck
#21
Re: Do we return ???
I'm back on this bright and sunny Sunday morning.
Let's start again from scratch and see where we end up. Hopefully you will end up with something that you find helpful.
There is plenty that I could say regarding the behaviour and attitudes of the PGDB but that would clog this post and your thread. We can share a mutual exasperation at a later time. Most overseas plumbers would identify with the way we think about the PGDB. Homegrown plumbers/gasfitters also seem to have little regard for their own trade board for the most part.
However, if you come to NZ then you simply have to put up with them with good grace & adhere to their system in their own country. Nothing has changed & you will still be required to learn & apply NZ gasfitting ways if you hope to become registered at all. Yes , it s tough but we choose to come here , so we have to work with it.
Believe me, I do understand where you are coming from . I have been driven to screeching point and beyond by this trade board.
Permanent Residency and Visas
I have noted that you have full permanent residency. You will also have been given an RRV - Returning Resident Visa in your passports. It will have had an expiry date. Did you renew the RRV beyond the expiry date so you have an Indefinite Returning Residents Visa ? IRRV.
Gas-fitting NZ & the PGDB 2008
If you intend to come back and work in the gasfitting trade then you will have to be employed .
The PGDB does not fully recognise ANY overseas qualifications & it doesn't matter what we think of that , knowing the NZ trade, that is what you have to work through.
I would suggest that you start again with the PGDB. Do not mention that you have had experience of the PGDB before. Start as a complete newbie.
If you come to NZ and find any sort of gas work , then you and the NZ employer must apply for and hold a PGDB Limited licence. This will allow you to work legally for the NZ employer. It is not any sort of recognition of your trade skill. It is statute and is given to NZ apprentices and labourers alike. As you already know , you must work under direct supervision of a Registered Gasfitter and all your work must be inspected and signed off.
In order to be able to work without supervision, you would have to become PGDB registered. Being registered does not mean you are allowed to become self-employed. It simply means that you can work unsupervised and will be seen as properly or fully NZ qualified
1] You download the PGDB overseas assessment form. Fill it in and send it to the PGDB with all the documents required. This costs $400 NZD. They will do a preliminary assessment and then decide whether or not they will allow you to proceed to the next stage towards PGDB registration.
For gasfitting , you really need C&G 1 and 2 to advanced level or equivalent newer Uk quals of C&G level3/NVQ level 3 plus CORGI if you hope to get a positive outcome from the PGDB.
A successful preliminary assessment will come in the form of a letter which states you will be eligible to take the overseas registration exam and assessment.
An unsuccessful preliminary assessment will come back with the suggestion that you enrol in an apprenticeship and undertake further NZ training to gain the Gasfitting National Certificate. Once you have the National Certificate they must allow you to sit the PGDB registration exams.
2] Next phase. You go to Wellington and take a 4 day assessment plus an exam. This is brand new and no-one has yet said what the content would be. Most likely it is going to include math, PGDB rules and regulations, NZ standards and building codes plus tests of practical workmanship. The cost is $3500. If you fail this , you can re-sit at a cost of $2000. From what we both know of the PGDB it would be better to go well prepared for anything and have all bases covered.
I can post up a reading list for you later & some further suggestions about preparation for this. You simply have to beat the buggers at their own game .
Once you succeed in this , then you can buy your Registration licence. This means that you will be seen as a fully qualified NZ gasfitter. You can work for your employer without supervision.
If you wish to become self-employed then you will need to sit the Craftsman exams. One is a business paper and one is a trade paper. You won't be allowed to do this straight away. Once you are a Craftsman , then you are allowed to be self-employed.
Should you wish to start your own business, there is nothing to stop you. You must employ a craftsman gasfitter and you must NOT touch gas or plumbing unless it is under the direct supervision of that Craftsman you employ.
It is all going to cost you several thousand dollars and that is without preparation for the above. It is also going to take a few years to become a Craftsman.
If you are prepared for this, then all the best and welcome back to New Zealand.
The above is dependent on your NZ PR status and IRRV visas being OK with NZIS
Let's start again from scratch and see where we end up. Hopefully you will end up with something that you find helpful.
There is plenty that I could say regarding the behaviour and attitudes of the PGDB but that would clog this post and your thread. We can share a mutual exasperation at a later time. Most overseas plumbers would identify with the way we think about the PGDB. Homegrown plumbers/gasfitters also seem to have little regard for their own trade board for the most part.
However, if you come to NZ then you simply have to put up with them with good grace & adhere to their system in their own country. Nothing has changed & you will still be required to learn & apply NZ gasfitting ways if you hope to become registered at all. Yes , it s tough but we choose to come here , so we have to work with it.
Believe me, I do understand where you are coming from . I have been driven to screeching point and beyond by this trade board.
Permanent Residency and Visas
I have noted that you have full permanent residency. You will also have been given an RRV - Returning Resident Visa in your passports. It will have had an expiry date. Did you renew the RRV beyond the expiry date so you have an Indefinite Returning Residents Visa ? IRRV.
Gas-fitting NZ & the PGDB 2008
If you intend to come back and work in the gasfitting trade then you will have to be employed .
The PGDB does not fully recognise ANY overseas qualifications & it doesn't matter what we think of that , knowing the NZ trade, that is what you have to work through.
I would suggest that you start again with the PGDB. Do not mention that you have had experience of the PGDB before. Start as a complete newbie.
If you come to NZ and find any sort of gas work , then you and the NZ employer must apply for and hold a PGDB Limited licence. This will allow you to work legally for the NZ employer. It is not any sort of recognition of your trade skill. It is statute and is given to NZ apprentices and labourers alike. As you already know , you must work under direct supervision of a Registered Gasfitter and all your work must be inspected and signed off.
In order to be able to work without supervision, you would have to become PGDB registered. Being registered does not mean you are allowed to become self-employed. It simply means that you can work unsupervised and will be seen as properly or fully NZ qualified
1] You download the PGDB overseas assessment form. Fill it in and send it to the PGDB with all the documents required. This costs $400 NZD. They will do a preliminary assessment and then decide whether or not they will allow you to proceed to the next stage towards PGDB registration.
For gasfitting , you really need C&G 1 and 2 to advanced level or equivalent newer Uk quals of C&G level3/NVQ level 3 plus CORGI if you hope to get a positive outcome from the PGDB.
A successful preliminary assessment will come in the form of a letter which states you will be eligible to take the overseas registration exam and assessment.
An unsuccessful preliminary assessment will come back with the suggestion that you enrol in an apprenticeship and undertake further NZ training to gain the Gasfitting National Certificate. Once you have the National Certificate they must allow you to sit the PGDB registration exams.
2] Next phase. You go to Wellington and take a 4 day assessment plus an exam. This is brand new and no-one has yet said what the content would be. Most likely it is going to include math, PGDB rules and regulations, NZ standards and building codes plus tests of practical workmanship. The cost is $3500. If you fail this , you can re-sit at a cost of $2000. From what we both know of the PGDB it would be better to go well prepared for anything and have all bases covered.
I can post up a reading list for you later & some further suggestions about preparation for this. You simply have to beat the buggers at their own game .
Once you succeed in this , then you can buy your Registration licence. This means that you will be seen as a fully qualified NZ gasfitter. You can work for your employer without supervision.
If you wish to become self-employed then you will need to sit the Craftsman exams. One is a business paper and one is a trade paper. You won't be allowed to do this straight away. Once you are a Craftsman , then you are allowed to be self-employed.
Should you wish to start your own business, there is nothing to stop you. You must employ a craftsman gasfitter and you must NOT touch gas or plumbing unless it is under the direct supervision of that Craftsman you employ.
It is all going to cost you several thousand dollars and that is without preparation for the above. It is also going to take a few years to become a Craftsman.
If you are prepared for this, then all the best and welcome back to New Zealand.
The above is dependent on your NZ PR status and IRRV visas being OK with NZIS
Last edited by BEVS; Jan 5th 2008 at 9:52 pm.
#22
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place !!!
Posts: 120
Re: Do we return ???
Many thanks for all that info Bev, sorry I didnt mean to sound angry, and certainly wasnt ever aimed at you. But sounds very much like you know all about the PGDB in NZ, (poor) I will look into it again and see if it makes sense to try again or just stay where we are.
As for going with their system, I tried my hardest to do that and you have to also note I have alot of family in NZ already, who have been there for alot of years, so I know about going with the kiwi's rather than against, and I was told all that when I got there.
But thanks for the advice, I know its their country etc etc, but I am still entitled to my own opinion no matter who's country I am in, just because you emigrate doesnt mean you have to give up your own principles, you have to adjust for sure, but I never intended becoming a kiwi, I am english.
As for the changes to the PGDB, well they have been driven pretty much from the UK, I have read in CORGI and other publications that both Australia and NZ have approached Corgi for information on how to do things better, but some of the translation may have been lost along the way.
Thanks will post replys when we decide what we are doing.
As for going with their system, I tried my hardest to do that and you have to also note I have alot of family in NZ already, who have been there for alot of years, so I know about going with the kiwi's rather than against, and I was told all that when I got there.
But thanks for the advice, I know its their country etc etc, but I am still entitled to my own opinion no matter who's country I am in, just because you emigrate doesnt mean you have to give up your own principles, you have to adjust for sure, but I never intended becoming a kiwi, I am english.
As for the changes to the PGDB, well they have been driven pretty much from the UK, I have read in CORGI and other publications that both Australia and NZ have approached Corgi for information on how to do things better, but some of the translation may have been lost along the way.
Thanks will post replys when we decide what we are doing.
#23
Re: Do we return ???
Just out of interest . . . . are NZ qualifications recognised in the UK?
Just curious. . . . . . .
Just curious. . . . . . .
#24
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place !!!
Posts: 120
Re: Do we return ???
We have had Kiwi's work with us before, but I am guessing they would have to sit all the ACS qualification and get CORGI to work here. I arent sure, we have a load of polish peeps here now, they seem to get work ok...
#25
Re: Do we return ???
The changes to the PGDB were driven by the ANZRA agreement and NZ ITOs dis-satisfaction with the PGDB itself.
I agree that some of the changes do seem to emulate CORGI but if you have a read through the PGDB newsletters and articles (grit your teeth & bite down hard on a piece of bute first ) , you will read that UK plumbing and gasfitting standards are regularly slated one way of another. It's a form of propaganda. It's also a nasty habit they have.
It is the PGDB view that CORGI is not all that. I'm sure the PGDB did approach CORGI but they certainly have given them no public credit whatsoever that I have seen.
The aim is also to adopt the Australia Training packages.
When is a PGDB chairman sacking not a sacking? When the bloke becomes the registrar instead.
The entire board was sacked June 2006 following an independent review report by Hazel Armstrong.
For your interest, here is an ARTICLE
I've little time for the strangle hold , old boys network that operate within this trade. I feel that it treats it's overseas migrant plumbers in an extremely shabby way. Perhaps this is changing.One can only hope. My view is that all hurdles will still be put in the overseas plumbers way. Just look at the cost of the new assessments? There is nothing in place to help the overseas plumber . I don't mean to give them a leg up as such. But if you put in such a heavy duty assessment , at least also put into place an NZ training package to help facilitate a successful assessment outcome. One would think they didn't want the overseas plumbers to be here , let alone become Registered or NZ Craftsmen Why might that be?
Actually, I'll have a search around and see if there is a training course set up. I could be talking outta me arris there and have to take that observation right back.
My comment that it is their country and we should accept & get on with it didn't mean that any of us should kowtow as such. We are not 2nd class people after all. It simply meant that when it comes right down to it ,the PGDB have the larger stick to beat you with & they know it. All you can do is quietly work your way through their system ,not being too voluble & not making too many waves . NZ is a small place after all . In this trade everyone knows everyone else throughout New Zealand as I am sure you know.
We have also been through the mill with the PGDB and know of several others who would echo the same. Some have left NZ. Some have simply given up on the trade once they have their PR and some, like my husband, are still in the trade & learn to live with certain annoyances.
I agree that some of the changes do seem to emulate CORGI but if you have a read through the PGDB newsletters and articles (grit your teeth & bite down hard on a piece of bute first ) , you will read that UK plumbing and gasfitting standards are regularly slated one way of another. It's a form of propaganda. It's also a nasty habit they have.
It is the PGDB view that CORGI is not all that. I'm sure the PGDB did approach CORGI but they certainly have given them no public credit whatsoever that I have seen.
The aim is also to adopt the Australia Training packages.
When is a PGDB chairman sacking not a sacking? When the bloke becomes the registrar instead.
The entire board was sacked June 2006 following an independent review report by Hazel Armstrong.
For your interest, here is an ARTICLE
I've little time for the strangle hold , old boys network that operate within this trade. I feel that it treats it's overseas migrant plumbers in an extremely shabby way. Perhaps this is changing.One can only hope. My view is that all hurdles will still be put in the overseas plumbers way. Just look at the cost of the new assessments? There is nothing in place to help the overseas plumber . I don't mean to give them a leg up as such. But if you put in such a heavy duty assessment , at least also put into place an NZ training package to help facilitate a successful assessment outcome. One would think they didn't want the overseas plumbers to be here , let alone become Registered or NZ Craftsmen Why might that be?
Actually, I'll have a search around and see if there is a training course set up. I could be talking outta me arris there and have to take that observation right back.
My comment that it is their country and we should accept & get on with it didn't mean that any of us should kowtow as such. We are not 2nd class people after all. It simply meant that when it comes right down to it ,the PGDB have the larger stick to beat you with & they know it. All you can do is quietly work your way through their system ,not being too voluble & not making too many waves . NZ is a small place after all . In this trade everyone knows everyone else throughout New Zealand as I am sure you know.
We have also been through the mill with the PGDB and know of several others who would echo the same. Some have left NZ. Some have simply given up on the trade once they have their PR and some, like my husband, are still in the trade & learn to live with certain annoyances.
#26
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,118
Re: Do we return ???
I cant help with anything regarding your trade - sorry, but i can say I am really enjoying Wellington. Have you considered here? Perhaps for the first couple years it could give you security (job wise) get some capital together, and then think about where in the country you would like to settle.
best of luck for whatever you decide - sounds like you got a goodun on your side!
#27
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Between a rock and a hard place !!!
Posts: 120
Re: Do we return ???
We were looking at the south island Christchurch. We were a little disappointed with the North, but it does have some lovely parts.
We were also thinking, New Plymouth, but as yet we are unsure whether to move out again or not, the last experience left a pretty nasty taste to say the least. Also this time I have no house to sell in the UK, as all our funds were wiped out last time moving.
There is alot to think about and I dont feel whole heartedly that it is worth it, I can earn far more money in the UK, and having to move kids and animals I'm just not sure.
But we will continue to think about it, I miss all my family who are in NZ already, and they desperately want us back. But earning poor money, retraining again, and being like an apprentice again, with little money coming in would be hard, its a very tough situation.
Thanks for your comments, the NZ life isnt easy, but some find it great and good on them who make it work. Me I love England for some stupid reason...
but I also love my family ......
We were also thinking, New Plymouth, but as yet we are unsure whether to move out again or not, the last experience left a pretty nasty taste to say the least. Also this time I have no house to sell in the UK, as all our funds were wiped out last time moving.
There is alot to think about and I dont feel whole heartedly that it is worth it, I can earn far more money in the UK, and having to move kids and animals I'm just not sure.
But we will continue to think about it, I miss all my family who are in NZ already, and they desperately want us back. But earning poor money, retraining again, and being like an apprentice again, with little money coming in would be hard, its a very tough situation.
Thanks for your comments, the NZ life isnt easy, but some find it great and good on them who make it work. Me I love England for some stupid reason...
but I also love my family ......
#28
Re: Do we return ???
Everyone seemed to pass the buck and we were told i dont know give these guys a try etc etc It was a nightmare in the end after the appreticeship department we were eventually put on to told us they didnt know we just gave up and decided to flag the idea.
Would be very interested to hear if anyone has done this and how they got on.
Cheers
Cally
#29
Re: Do we return ???
If your husband intends to work at the trade in the UK and wants to do it properly & above board if you know what I mean , then he should contact
JIB-PMES
He could obtain his JIB card once his overseas quals have been assessed.
Overseas quals like your husbands would be assessed by NARIC (similar to NZQA)
This applies to plumbing only . Not gasfitting.
JIB-PMES
The JIB Plumbers, Mechanical Engineering Services (PMES) scheme is the standard measure of skills, knowledge, competency and Health and Safety awareness for the UK plumbing industry.
JIB certification is graded into four categories - Trained, Advanced, Technical and Mechanical Plumber – and awarded depending on qualifications and experience.
For further information on JIB-PMES, or to check authenticity, call 01480 476925.
JIB certification is graded into four categories - Trained, Advanced, Technical and Mechanical Plumber – and awarded depending on qualifications and experience.
For further information on JIB-PMES, or to check authenticity, call 01480 476925.
Overseas quals like your husbands would be assessed by NARIC (similar to NZQA)
This applies to plumbing only . Not gasfitting.