ble

And she seems to be charging for the ENTIRE food bill for the family over the year.
$18,200

Surely if there are 4 in the family you could split that figure in half. (and then half again for dad and mum share).

TeamEmbo

That probably includes an 'alcohol' amount too I would say around $75 per week for food for each of the kids, that's $7,800 and half of that per month is $325 so that's another deduction on previous calculation saving another $110 per month making it $1,354 per month. Take off the $70 council tax and $10 water (as these probably don't exist) saves Jono another $40 a month, that makes $1,314 per month and his kids will still get to enjoy all the outings and activities and parties as listed and he'll get to save $686 per month towards a holiday out here to see them. Everybody wins

ble

I can see that I am running my family all wrong.
I obviously need to leave OH - send him a HUGE bill for the cost of his children and I would be quids (sorry dollars) in.




Of course the fact that I love him to bits and have no intention of ever doing that means that I need to get used to our family being paupers.



But, on a serious note, I seriously think that you need to be looking further into it Jono.
I know that I had a friend (reverse situation); kid in Scotland but him here, and he sent around $300 a month back across. Not for a total pound amount - but a standard flat NZD amount. Therefore allowing him to budget properly for his expenses here. He wasn't on a large income in either country.

I also know that he got his own case worker in teh UK (when things went horrid and threats were thrown around) social services (or what ever the department is across there that looks after things - child support from parents in teh UK). They gave him a case worker and where really helpful over the phone and email.

I have no idea, but is that an option for across here.

As I said - I have never (and hope to never) need to deal with that department. So I am not sure - but someone else may do?


And as for Teamembos food amounts - I would say that it is very fair to generous amount for a 7yr and 10yr - but I guess that would allow the free-range organic things to be bought.

Genesis

$2k is a HUGE amount monthly. I would tell her to whistle if she wants more. A mate of mine pays a bit less than this for 3 kids. Even if I didn't know about my mate having lived here for 5 years I know that $2k is more than ample for 2 kids of this age. You are being very generous. Schooling is all but free..the donations you make are just that..donations and you don't HAVE to pay if you are skint..its only about $150 p/a per child anyways. Most schools are non uniform and how much food can a child eat in a month. There is a small charge for the school stationery by the way..again its a small amount, sleep well you have nothing to lose sleep over!!

Genesis

Nicley put. I was thinking this but erred on the side of being a coward!!!!!!

jonolondon

Many thanks to you all for your really detailed, painstaking replies.

FYI - Pending receiving a detailed breakdown from her (she moved to NZ last September), I've been paying her £750 sterling per month which seemed reasonable (to me at least).

Since then, I've been asked to pay £1500 sterling ($3500 NZD/month ?) threatened with lawyers, etc.

(This is probably more info than more of you are interested in, but for reference, my ex is holding off from signing the divorce paperwork until I agree a revised figure, despite the fact that she's taken off and living there with her BF !). Hence the reason why I want to get this sorted out.

So that is all very helpful and allows me to at least debate her figures from a factual perspective.

Thanks everyone - you've been very kind.
Jonathan

simonsi

Goodness, well lots of hard info for you, if I were you I would anonomise(sp?) it and play it back to her, clearly their approach is relying on you not knowing the real score/prices etc etc - that would also cool the ardour of any lawyers (in reality even NZ lawyers would probably struggle to argue the rationale of exceeding the NZ CSA figure though TBH so I think that is an empty threat).

Painful - but you have my sympathy for agreeing for the children to go that far away, that must be harder than dealing with the finance issues.

Presume NZIS have some form of your agreement for them to go?? (open question but don´t feel you need to answer, happy to discuss by pm if you want to).

BEVS

I know I'm being a bit dim here but why wasn't a figure agreed upon before you signed the papers allowing your kids to go to NZ with her &, possibly, her new partner? Surely you all discussed access and costs.

PSW2010

Hi,
there's no way on this earth kids are eating $350 a week in food, prob half that, for which you're responsible for half. Also, $35 a week on takeaways is impossible (well it's not, but it could be on top of all that food). $190 for the net is wild, I'm not sure it's that for everything, sky, phone, calls, net, & so you're responsible for the kids part of that.
Effectively, aren't you responsible for a quarter of all their househld bills, in that they are responsible for the adult half, and then half of the kids bit aswell.
I've could easily, EASILY live in NZ on $3300 tax free for my family, added to my income. I'd be richer than God here if i had that.
No offence, I know you love your kids, but the adults in this are trying to take the mickey out of you.
Not sure what the answer is, lawyers prob aren't, but for most of these things you can go on the net, do a pretend shop at woolworths.co.nz see how much a weekly shop is, clothes stores will be online, etc etc.

jonolondon

Thanks Bevs.. She wouldn't agree on a figure prior to her leaving for NZ and I never signed any release paperwork !

It would have been nice but it didn't happen and frankly I didn't necessarily want to commit to a figure which would have been based on the cost of Living in London Vs. Bay of Plenty !

Thanks again everyone for the feedback, that's unbelievably helpful.
J

simonsi

Umm, are you saying she doesn't have written authority from you to take them to NZ?????

Depending on what visa they entered NZ on I thought NZ would insist on that - most countries do these days.

TeamEmbo

Jono do you have legal parental responsibility for the children? Ie, you were married to your ex at the time of their birth? If so, it is ILLEGAL for your ex to remove your children from the jurisdiction of the UK without your written persmission which must be signed by a Notary Public. Did you give this permission? Immigration are very hot on this so it would be interesting to know what visa your ex come over on because unless she lied on her application Immigration would insist on having a copy of your permission for Removal from UK Jurisdiction. Children have been stopped at airports and parents charged for removing/attempting to remove children without this permission.

Furthermore, she can threaten all she likes with lawyers but it's a slightly more complicated process when living in two different countries. There is a repriocal agreement between NZ and the UK. However, in order for her to pursue a claim for child maintenance through the NZ court she would need to go through REMO. This is a service used to make or enforce maintenance orders in order to collect money from non-paying absent parents. The usual CSA rules do not apply from either country in these cases, although some lawyers may use them as a baseline to start negotiations. She would need to apply to the NZ family court for a maintenance order and the paperwork would be passed to REMO to enforce in the UK on her behalf. HOWEVER, you are not a non-paying parent without care. You pay a regular and generous amount and I doubt she'd get anywhere with her claim.

Furthermore, if she did manage to pursue things through REMO your case would be heard in an English court as that is where you are, were she would not attend but you could counterclaim her removal of the children without your permission along with the fact that you pay regular maintenance. In REMO cases, both sides have to provide full and frank financial details of total family income (this would include her partner's income/savings/investments/pensions as well as hers and those of the children) by way of original bank statements, original bills and documents and it bascially comes down to what is a fair amount to pay given each parties personal living expenses and financial commitments. It is a very lengthy process. I'm not even sure REMO would pursue this on her behalf as you are already making regular payments. Please protect yourself and keep official records of these payments.

I'm not a lawyer Jono I just, unfortunately, have personal experience of this.

In my humble opinion, the first thing I would do if I were you is to check on the Removal from Jurisdiction issue. If you definitely did not sign this and get it witnessed and signed by a Notary Public, then what your ex has done by removing the children is illegal. If you wanted, you could pursue that and insist on their return. Secondly, again, just my opinion but I really don't think REMO would pursue the case for her as you are already paying.

Lastly, don't feel like you're between a rock and a hard place just because she refuses to sign the divorce papers unless you pay up. No doubt she'll want to move on with her life too so it just sounds like an empty threat and personally I'd concentrate on the legal aspect of her taking the kids first.

Hope this helps. Would seriously recommend you get some proper sound legal advice and take it from there.

Wooly_Cow

I can't add much to some of the great advice except to wish you luck. As Embo says, I would get legal advice and not worry about those divorce papers.

I would also pursue the aspect of the childrens removal without your written consent.

All the best

PS Internet cost $60 per month for uncapped (Telecom Big Time) - if your ex and BF use the internet then the extra cost for the kids using it is NOTHING

Am Loolah

In that case, she is paying water on top of rent as it's not included in BoP rates - unless it's Omokoroa where it is. So would depend where in the BoP. Not really relevant in the scale of your thread - but just an aside.

Best of luck and make sure you keep us all updated please.

jonolondon

Hi TeamEmbo - Many thanks. Yes I was married to her (still am legally !)at the time of both children's birth so am absolutely their legal parent. I have a strong suspicion actually that my signature has been forged onto some paperwork.. I'll get back in touch with my lawyer and see what she says..

She's just responded to me with an unbelievably irate email after I cut and paste some of the comments from this forum -claiming that Hamburger meat just cost her $18 and telling me to F* off after I offered her a one off payment of $3k to help out followed by $2k per month !

Anyway, thanks everyone for your sage advice, I will be sticking to my guns and see if she sees sanity...

Cheers,
Jonathan