jgombos

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the statistics I've looked at show cost of living ("COL") to be equal to the US, and there's hardly a COL/Salary imbalance here. But maybe these stats are off.

Here's what I looked at:

This salary survey site showed application designers to earn between 80k NZD and 100k NZD, which is very close to what that skill is valued at in the US.

Then I looked at this cost of living calculator which showed that someone making 55k USD in Albuquerque, New Mexico must make around 57k USD in Auckland to maintain the same lifestyle.

So cost of living is comparable to the US, as well as salary. Where are these statistics flawed? Perhaps I happened to select a field of work that's doing well in NZ.

update: I do notice that NZ contractors make less than NZ directs, while US contractors make substantially more than US directs. (The comparison above assumed direct employment). So contracting is unfavorable in NZ (there seems to be no advantage to it). Are foreign nationals paid like temporary contractors in NZ?

Dave in Auckland

From the NZ Herald, and housing is the most significant factor of any cost of living calculation.

The median Auckland house now costs almost nine times the annual earnings of the average New Zealander, up from six times a decade ago.
And while the market for more expensive properties is beginning to slow, strong turnover is still pushing up the prices of cheaper properties nationwide (under $350,000), keeping pressure on first home buyers.
The latest Real Estate Institute figures put the median Auckland house price in July at $363,500, almost double that of 10 years ago.
Annual earnings in that time have grown about 30 per cent - from $30,900 to about $41,000, according to Statistics New Zealand.
Professor Bob Hargreaves, head of property studies at Massey University, said New Zealand was losing ground internationally in the housing affordability stakes.
"When you look at the relationship between people's income and the amount they need to get into a house, New Zealand is fairly well up there in terms of those kinds of ratios now."
He said New Zealand started to fall backwards in home ownership when it was left to market forces.
"If you leave it to the market to determine, what tends to happen is the lending institutions lend to clients who are the best risk, I guess, so it's the people at the margin that miss out."
ASB chief economist Anthony Byett said Auckland's property market was mirroring nationwide trends and he expected it to weaken between now and next winter.
He said the demand nationwide for houses below about $350,000 was stronger than for more expensive properties. However, the cheaper houses would also follow the national trend and prices would flatten.

uk+kiwi

I read that article too. And sadly things have become more expensive in NZ over the last few years in real terms, especially as coastal property has doubled in the last two years, and The North Shore commuter area for Akl has risen 60% in the last 3 years. (Also in the Herald in past week).

However, it is still much cheaper than lots of other major cities, eg London. My husband works in London and nine times his salary in a reasonable area of London (in which I would not live) would buy us a 2 bedroomed flat, hardly a family home. A lot depends on where exactly you live, and how much you earn.

And of course in reality COL depends on many factors, not least of which are personal priorities, expectations and spending habits. It's a tricky one.

jgombos

Does this mean the rental costs are high too?

I was hoping to buy real estate there, but maybe it makes more sense to visit for one or two years than to move there. It's sounding like I should defer the PR idea and just go for the green card. Or work in Australia, and just visit NZ as a tourist.

BTW, it's interesting to see a the following article: http://www.nz-immigration.co.nz/cost...g/housing.html
which contradicts what I've read in this forum. I will of course trust the forum over that marketing hype.

uk+kiwi

Hi there. I don't think that article contradicts the forum at all. The median house prices of mid-300's were I thought quoted in both sites, and NZ does have one of the highest home ownership levels in the world due to the 'cheap' housing. It is just that the balance has changed in the last few years as house prices have risen significantly, esp. in relation to salaries. However this has not been uncommon having taken place in a lot of countries eg US, Aus, UK also.

Either way, I strongly advise you to draw your own conclusion via the vast and simple research available over the internet amongst other sources. The housing websites for NZ are fantastic, salary information is much harder to come by, but a few calls to some recruitment agencies in NZ will help enormously. Please do not make personal life changing plans based on posts on this forum, as useful and informative as I believe they are, as we all have different expectations and opinions, especially when it comes to financial related issues.


Best of luck with your plans.

southerner

I'll second that. These forums are good to get info from but the real decision is down to your own circumstances, and you need to be asking the right questions too!

jgombos

Yeah, I was probably being a little too hasty. I keep struggling with where to move: NZ, AUS, Ireland, Netherlands, and Canada, and I'm having trouble narrowing it down.

I have the attitude that this is going to be more like a very long paid vacation, and I don't expect to do as well financially as I am now. I think I would be happy at all of the above places. But my temptation is to narrow it down based on money (immigration costs, living costs, income). Australia is probably the most economical, but it's also not in my top 3. So I fight with myself over this.

I was actually thinking the forums would be the best tool for getting tailored answers. I have difficulty trusting the canned info/statistics I find on the web.

Dave and Lyns

Yeah, we are going the same thing at the minute with trying to find out info on NZ. This forum has been good for getting advice on specific topics that we needed to know about. As usual we want to hear both positives and negatives brought out and some of the time we do find ourselves back at square one as the coments seem to cancel each other out.

We have been trying to find out what we need salary wise via the cost of living calculators and the problem we have found is that it gives us a value that is more than offers we have had. This causes a slight problem as you then have to start thinking is it that the company is trying to offer you too low a wage and trying to give you the bear minimum as I know that UK companies try it on all the time; of course on the other side of the coin the company might be offering you something that is very reasonable but to be honest how does someone in the UK know for sure? We have looked at the salary expectations that Pinkie Pie gave a link for on another thread and that seems to say it should be higher as well. So all in all it's a bit of a minefield

Anyway, good luck in trying to narrowing it down

jgombos

The trick with those salary calculators is they make assumptions that limits their usefulness. I use a salary calculator that I believe assumes an American lifestyle. It will calculate from/to any country, but it assumes you have two cars and a generously sized house, and you want to maintain that same lifestyle. Well if you're moving from the US to the UK, you don't need a car at all; and it would make sense to downgrade lifestyle in that case.

It would be nice if these calculators would be flexible enough to let the user alter lifestyle. It should provide the option to neglect car expenses if the user is moving across the street from their next job. I haven't found one good enough to do this.

uk+kiwi

Good Morning,

I assume you are referring to the fact that we have a much better public transport system? Which we do. And of course it is possible to get buy purely on this, with taxis to fill any gaps.

However most people still have cars in the UK, unless they are students, recent grads and/or working in a main city - usually London. I can't think of a single person without a car, or even licence come to think of it.

Just wanted to let you know. But of course you can get a lot of trains, buses and taxis for the financial cost of running a car - depreciation on vehicle, road tax, insurance, petrol. I would find it hard to hand the freedom and control of time to others, but I have children now so it would be completely impractical for me personally not to own a car. We are a one car family though, which is also pretty unusual.

Dave and Lyns

Much better public transport system? Have you been on a train recently? I travel quite a bit around the country for work and the trains are usually late, and other people I know have the same problem. Then you have an overcrowding problem as well.

As for the cost of getting taxi rides instead of a car and making it cheaper I wouldn't think so. The depreciation on vehicle would be higher if you had a newer car but if this were the case then most people would take a taxi instead. As for me I have tried to see if I could get to work (15 miles away) by using bus, then train then walk into work and besides of the aspect of having to spend more money for the equivalent day anyway, I would spend 3x as long getting to work, and then if I had to stay late then that's another problem.

As you say your own car does give you the freedom and with children this is another factor. Well done on the one car family aspect - it would be something that we would like to do to cut costs anyway and I know someone who has done it as well by getting rid of their second car. If you can time it right and home/work commitment allow then you are OK. We'd have to go to one car a month or two before we left for NZ anyway so that it would be one less hassle of selling a car to contend with.

Cheers,
Dave

uk+kiwi

Dave,

Goodness me, what rebuke - but I'm not sure you understood the post - it was about the US vs UK. And it is well known the UK public transport infrastructure and options are more accessible than in the US. I didn't say I thought it was great.

My OH spends 3 1/2 hours day at best commuting on public transport, and since I am his ride home as the buses don't run after 5pm from the station (err, hello?) I am well aware of the downfalls on a frequent basis.

However, I have to disagree with your comment re: financials. My car depreciation over the last 2 years has been £4000/year, insurance is £600, petrol at £40/week for pottering around works out at £2080/year, plus road tax - £180?. Maintenance at £800/year - 2 services at £250 plus a couple of bits. So this totals £7660 per year, which I think does buy a lot of public transport. Taxis to fill gaps, not just taxis. Although it would buy approx. 7660 miles in a taxi before midnight which is quite a lot I think? 3 annual train passes into London even. Cars are an expensive luxury... right I'm off to sell mine!!!

(but seriously, it is hard with one car, 2 children, living 2 miles out of town and a commuting husband, but we've only ever had one car, and don't really have any choice!)

England Girl

I couldn't have survived without my car in NZ as the public transport is pretty much non existent if you live out of the main cities.
I know of a girl who had never been on a bus (or any other public transport) until she started uni in Auckland and ended up going from the North Shore into the CBD when she only wanted to go to campus. She was terrified of the public transport system as she was so used to going everywhere by car (she was from a remote community).
But now I live in a UK city with great public transport, buses 24 hours a day and at a cost of £31 a month (and I use four buses a day getting to work and home again). I can live without a car for work and social purposes but would like one to get out and about at weekends. Wouldn't think of getting one here as petrol has gone through the roof since I was last here.
Mind you, I see petrol in NZ has hit $1.50 for 91. I remember when it was $1.13 (less than six months ago).

As for cost of living in general. I boarded with a couple for $65 a week, paid bills on top (around another $160 a month) and earnt $430 a week. My wages went towards petrol and other car stuff (WOF, insurance, spare parts etc), savings ($70 a week), other bills (mobile phone and credit card) and I still had money to burn. Most of mine went on exploring NZ and my new love of triathlon.
But when I go back I'm looking for work that pays a bit more than the $28,000 or so I was on before, if that is possible.

Dave and Lyns

Sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick Carmen.

As for the financials, if your car depreciation over the last 2 years has been £4000/year, then that is quite alot, and your sums would add up.

Dave