Canada vs New Zealand?
Jan 16th 2009, 4:48 pm
#31
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Cold is character building, and one thing that I admired so much and I am glad my kids got to experince, is the barefoot-make-something-out-of anything kind of attitude. We spent more time making fun than being overstimulated by square boxes, which we still try to do.
And I totally understand the differences in parenting things you mention, there was no parenting shame/consciousness and most kids that my kids were friends with were smacked. Though I am sure that abounds here too, just not so obviously because people feel less able to. I never forget an older NZ lady in her 50's proudly telling me that she would tie her son on a tether to the clothes line as punishment when he was small...................
I dont know enough about the NZ system as a whole, just what my kids experienced in one school, though a highly regarded local school at that. I think that system rewards self motivated kids who have fabulous parents who have the time to spend countless hours a night doing reinforcing work. My son needed dynamite and some consequence, he just slipped through the cracks because there is a vast black and white contrast to the kids in the class. Some were from professional parent backgrounds and would be uni entrants because of background expectation alone. The rest were never going to fall far from the tree, get an apprenticeship and smoke homegrown all day (
) and there is a point at which you cant lead that last horse to educational water. My son shone at avoiding achievement and had no incentive to do so. He was spoon fed and never had to sit up and pay attention. Here there is focus and there is a need to shine because all those around you are shining and loving the inspirational teaching. And my children have been to 2 schools here as we moved from rented to owned, and I found this in both.
Also, chucking the baby out with the bath water even more, it seems to me that there are many NZ incentives for people to enter university, the majority drop out, a large percentage of girls will leave mid course pregnant (becoming beneficiaries) and those that succeed fly the coop to foreign lands.
Right, back under my stone
And I totally understand the differences in parenting things you mention, there was no parenting shame/consciousness and most kids that my kids were friends with were smacked. Though I am sure that abounds here too, just not so obviously because people feel less able to. I never forget an older NZ lady in her 50's proudly telling me that she would tie her son on a tether to the clothes line as punishment when he was small...................
I dont know enough about the NZ system as a whole, just what my kids experienced in one school, though a highly regarded local school at that. I think that system rewards self motivated kids who have fabulous parents who have the time to spend countless hours a night doing reinforcing work. My son needed dynamite and some consequence, he just slipped through the cracks because there is a vast black and white contrast to the kids in the class. Some were from professional parent backgrounds and would be uni entrants because of background expectation alone. The rest were never going to fall far from the tree, get an apprenticeship and smoke homegrown all day (
) and there is a point at which you cant lead that last horse to educational water. My son shone at avoiding achievement and had no incentive to do so. He was spoon fed and never had to sit up and pay attention. Here there is focus and there is a need to shine because all those around you are shining and loving the inspirational teaching. And my children have been to 2 schools here as we moved from rented to owned, and I found this in both. Also, chucking the baby out with the bath water even more, it seems to me that there are many NZ incentives for people to enter university, the majority drop out, a large percentage of girls will leave mid course pregnant (becoming beneficiaries) and those that succeed fly the coop to foreign lands.
Right, back under my stone
I was always told the cold was character building. 
"Go and put on a jersey" was the refrain in my childhood. We had one wood burning stove.
Set me up well for backpacking, though. It's true, though, the quality of house and standard of living in Canada is higher than NZ. Much higher I would say. The other thing I've noticed is the parenting difference. Here in BC, you don't spank your kids. I'm not talking about it being against the law. It's just not the culture here. Whereas nZ....well, I saw some stuff in Palmy and Masterton and around the place that would have raised a few eyebrows in Van. Like, abusive yelling, that kind of stuff. Right out in public. I"m sure parents here do it but it must be behind closed doors because I've never seen anything like what I saw in NZ in public here.
I don't know if it's just me noticed that, but I felt like parents were held in general to a higher standard here. But I'm not saying kids don't get abused in BC cos they do. I just think the culture of parenting is diff.
*walks away from post on eggshells*
Still, I think I got a good education there and so did most of my friends, who are doing interesting things all over the world. One of my friends is a teacher who trained in the US, and she said NZ's system is very highly regarded there.
IT ranks fairly well internationally, too....
What I like about Canada is the free french immersion schools and specialised elementary schools
what I like about NZ is school uniform and single sex schools and I feel there is less peer pressure to have the latest thing, at least in the smaller towns. I wish I could send daughter to a single sex high school here.
both systems have their pros and cons, imo.
"Go and put on a jersey" was the refrain in my childhood. We had one wood burning stove. Set me up well for backpacking, though. It's true, though, the quality of house and standard of living in Canada is higher than NZ. Much higher I would say. The other thing I've noticed is the parenting difference. Here in BC, you don't spank your kids. I'm not talking about it being against the law. It's just not the culture here. Whereas nZ....well, I saw some stuff in Palmy and Masterton and around the place that would have raised a few eyebrows in Van. Like, abusive yelling, that kind of stuff. Right out in public. I"m sure parents here do it but it must be behind closed doors because I've never seen anything like what I saw in NZ in public here.
I don't know if it's just me noticed that, but I felt like parents were held in general to a higher standard here. But I'm not saying kids don't get abused in BC cos they do. I just think the culture of parenting is diff.
*walks away from post on eggshells*
Still, I think I got a good education there and so did most of my friends, who are doing interesting things all over the world. One of my friends is a teacher who trained in the US, and she said NZ's system is very highly regarded there.
IT ranks fairly well internationally, too.... What I like about Canada is the free french immersion schools and specialised elementary schools
what I like about NZ is school uniform and single sex schools and I feel there is less peer pressure to have the latest thing, at least in the smaller towns. I wish I could send daughter to a single sex high school here.
both systems have their pros and cons, imo.
Last edited by Poppy2; Jan 16th 2009 at 4:51 pm.
Jan 16th 2009, 6:01 pm
#32
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
can't say I disagree with anything you've said. some people def. just go to uni as a way to avoid Real Life. It's too bad, I wish they made the barriers to entry higher, but whatever...my bro didn't have a great school experience either, so you're not alone. Nor did my sister, who is now a journalist.
I love the sound of NS. I have a kiwi aunt in Halifax, she finds it very sympatico there. I'd love to try it out there, I love the sense of humour of the people I've met from NS, but OH won't leave BC...too far from family/business contacts.
I love the sound of NS. I have a kiwi aunt in Halifax, she finds it very sympatico there. I'd love to try it out there, I love the sense of humour of the people I've met from NS, but OH won't leave BC...too far from family/business contacts.
Jan 16th 2009, 7:04 pm
#33
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,787
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
I shall venture in cautiously and hope to neither offend or make an arse of myself.
As many know, we spent 4 years in Wanganui and were happy to move on and we now live very happily in Nova Scotia Canada.
After a year of not being in NZ and so being able to reflect upon the many reasons we disliked our time there, it is a combination of things. One was definately the place, it wasnt for us at all. Too small a group of people and such a poor attitude to new comers. Also great sense of no income there, like I imagine some towns feel like when major industry has closed down and people are down on their luck. It was claustraphobic to say the least. The other issue was the mess our buying a house turned out to be - we bought a lemon at auction and got ripped off by the deviant previous owner, then hung to dry by being poorly underinsured. We never quite got over that. And employment for us (healthcare) was tedious, outdated and management was never there on own merit but due to time in service. Prehistoric in other words.
So how could we have improved this? Definately moving within NZ, though, I suspect that NZ is generally too small and isolated for us. Strange to say given the relative population of Nova Scotia, but here we blend in and no-one feels they need to remind us that we are immigrants here, unlike in NZ or specifically Wanganui.
Another thing we gained coming to NS is the education for our kids. It may have been my kids, and not the education system, but my now 11 year old wasnt learning much in his last few years in NZ. Unbeknownst to us, he was perfectly able to sit out the school day and there were no measured outcomes of learning, so no need to do anything other than glaze over and daydream. Here, there are projects, that are self directed and result in a class presentation - which all his peers are so professional at doing, because they are raised in a culture of creative learning which is full on and constantly assessed. I dont mean exam style assessment. So he is now blossoming. Not to mention the early, daily learning of French at Primary level. In grade 5 at his school in NZ he would have had a project to make a snail house out of recycled household packaging.................here he has a meaty project on a province of Canada that requires him to be proficient with a computer, internet searches and powerpoint. My 6 year old is learning about Martin Luther KIng and the race issues leading up to his shooting in 1968, let alone the modern artists they have studied and the science projects they have been doing..........he can pick up a pine needle and tell you what sort of pine tree it came from and what soil it prefers. Their educaton is breath taking and daily I am seeing them thrive an expand, doing matter that actually does mach that programme - are you smarter than a 5th grader. In NZ I would laugh and say, my 5th grader wouldnt know anything like what was being asked............but in North America, those kids do know.
I agree with you, before you say it, it may all be our particular experience of NZ. I agree with you. But personally, I couldnt have moved within NZ to possibly find the same issues again. I think there are lots of small things we miss, but we gain great shops, great food selection at the supemarket, shops like ToysRus and GAP and jobs that challenge us and give us skills that are contemporary in modern heathcare. We are close to places we value - family in the UK and visiting the US. Also finally get to have Christmas, with all its full on North American festiveness, in the right season. No more *seasons greetings* painted signs in shop windows being the height of the local shops gearing up for Christmas in NZ.
And yes, the medical and dental benefits are fantastic here. No wondering if I can afford to go and spend $20-40 to see my crappy and lazy old GP in NZ. And having just had a root canal as an emergency, I am glad I didnt have to sell an organ to pay for it as we are insured through our employer.
Also - heating our house. Now granted it all comes down to what house you choose to buy in NZ, but I have never lived so cold in all my life. When we told our NZ friends we were moving to Canada they delighted in telling me how cold it was here.............because none of them know what double glazing, central heating and not just having each individual room heated is.
I feel we have the best of both worlds here, the things we valued about NZ and the things we missed. The biggest thing here is the welcome and lack of standing out. Everyone here considers themselves an immigrant, so people welcome us. In NZ I remember being at a study day where people were introducing themselves as from a Uk town, but been here 15 years, etc, etc, as it went round the room, some maori there also and then there were people saying they were however many generations pakeha.................seriously, its still all about who got there first, even amongst our generation. And the inequalities in everything where Maori are concerned, but in their favour. I worked hard, paid taxes and my benefits when I had a baby were pitiful - should have not bothered working and been a beneficiary, then I could have not worked until my child was 5 and then part-time until she was 11. And our taxes paid for this, but benefited us little.
Anyway, afterall that, it is horses for courses and we each individually prize things differently. I love NZ for many, many things and we have some great friends there. But home is NS for us, it was from the moment we got off the plane onto the dirty week old snow and saw the brown grass and leafless trees of January. It still felt right for us and continues to do so. But even if it didnt, we would never go back to the UK, thats never going to happen.....unless we become really unwelcome and get deported!
So just my 2 pennies worth - dont chew my arse off and go google searching with educated responses. All I am saying is our experience and it isnt to offend those that find real joy in NZ.
As many know, we spent 4 years in Wanganui and were happy to move on and we now live very happily in Nova Scotia Canada.
After a year of not being in NZ and so being able to reflect upon the many reasons we disliked our time there, it is a combination of things. One was definately the place, it wasnt for us at all. Too small a group of people and such a poor attitude to new comers. Also great sense of no income there, like I imagine some towns feel like when major industry has closed down and people are down on their luck. It was claustraphobic to say the least. The other issue was the mess our buying a house turned out to be - we bought a lemon at auction and got ripped off by the deviant previous owner, then hung to dry by being poorly underinsured. We never quite got over that. And employment for us (healthcare) was tedious, outdated and management was never there on own merit but due to time in service. Prehistoric in other words.
So how could we have improved this? Definately moving within NZ, though, I suspect that NZ is generally too small and isolated for us. Strange to say given the relative population of Nova Scotia, but here we blend in and no-one feels they need to remind us that we are immigrants here, unlike in NZ or specifically Wanganui.
Another thing we gained coming to NS is the education for our kids. It may have been my kids, and not the education system, but my now 11 year old wasnt learning much in his last few years in NZ. Unbeknownst to us, he was perfectly able to sit out the school day and there were no measured outcomes of learning, so no need to do anything other than glaze over and daydream. Here, there are projects, that are self directed and result in a class presentation - which all his peers are so professional at doing, because they are raised in a culture of creative learning which is full on and constantly assessed. I dont mean exam style assessment. So he is now blossoming. Not to mention the early, daily learning of French at Primary level. In grade 5 at his school in NZ he would have had a project to make a snail house out of recycled household packaging.................here he has a meaty project on a province of Canada that requires him to be proficient with a computer, internet searches and powerpoint. My 6 year old is learning about Martin Luther KIng and the race issues leading up to his shooting in 1968, let alone the modern artists they have studied and the science projects they have been doing..........he can pick up a pine needle and tell you what sort of pine tree it came from and what soil it prefers. Their educaton is breath taking and daily I am seeing them thrive an expand, doing matter that actually does mach that programme - are you smarter than a 5th grader. In NZ I would laugh and say, my 5th grader wouldnt know anything like what was being asked............but in North America, those kids do know.
I agree with you, before you say it, it may all be our particular experience of NZ. I agree with you. But personally, I couldnt have moved within NZ to possibly find the same issues again. I think there are lots of small things we miss, but we gain great shops, great food selection at the supemarket, shops like ToysRus and GAP and jobs that challenge us and give us skills that are contemporary in modern heathcare. We are close to places we value - family in the UK and visiting the US. Also finally get to have Christmas, with all its full on North American festiveness, in the right season. No more *seasons greetings* painted signs in shop windows being the height of the local shops gearing up for Christmas in NZ.
And yes, the medical and dental benefits are fantastic here. No wondering if I can afford to go and spend $20-40 to see my crappy and lazy old GP in NZ. And having just had a root canal as an emergency, I am glad I didnt have to sell an organ to pay for it as we are insured through our employer.
Also - heating our house. Now granted it all comes down to what house you choose to buy in NZ, but I have never lived so cold in all my life. When we told our NZ friends we were moving to Canada they delighted in telling me how cold it was here.............because none of them know what double glazing, central heating and not just having each individual room heated is.
I feel we have the best of both worlds here, the things we valued about NZ and the things we missed. The biggest thing here is the welcome and lack of standing out. Everyone here considers themselves an immigrant, so people welcome us. In NZ I remember being at a study day where people were introducing themselves as from a Uk town, but been here 15 years, etc, etc, as it went round the room, some maori there also and then there were people saying they were however many generations pakeha.................seriously, its still all about who got there first, even amongst our generation. And the inequalities in everything where Maori are concerned, but in their favour. I worked hard, paid taxes and my benefits when I had a baby were pitiful - should have not bothered working and been a beneficiary, then I could have not worked until my child was 5 and then part-time until she was 11. And our taxes paid for this, but benefited us little.
Anyway, afterall that, it is horses for courses and we each individually prize things differently. I love NZ for many, many things and we have some great friends there. But home is NS for us, it was from the moment we got off the plane onto the dirty week old snow and saw the brown grass and leafless trees of January. It still felt right for us and continues to do so. But even if it didnt, we would never go back to the UK, thats never going to happen.....unless we become really unwelcome and get deported!
So just my 2 pennies worth - dont chew my arse off and go google searching with educated responses. All I am saying is our experience and it isnt to offend those that find real joy in NZ.
Jan 16th 2009, 7:18 pm
#34
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
May I ask what drew you guys (general you) to Wanganui? It's a very pretty town but most people I know (read: locals/born & bred kiwis) would not choose to live there.
That's not a criticism btw. Sometimes immigrants see stuff locals don't.
That's not a criticism btw. Sometimes immigrants see stuff locals don't.
Jan 16th 2009, 8:13 pm
#35
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,787
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Jan 16th 2009, 8:27 pm
#36
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Wellington
Posts: 367
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
This is also not a criticism, there are large salary's to be had in Wellington, where maybe there are more things on offer, and you still have the scenery? Also different people have a different opinion on whats Large here, to some people is anything over say $100k and then to other people large would mean anything over $50k, just depends what sort of lifestyle you want.
Jan 16th 2009, 9:06 pm
#37
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,787
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
This is also not a criticism, there are large salary's to be had in Wellington, where maybe there are more things on offer, and you still have the scenery? Also different people have a different opinion on whats Large here, to some people is anything over say $100k and then to other people large would mean anything over $50k, just depends what sort of lifestyle you want.
but as I said for now we try and make the most of it, but who knows in the future were we will be at
Jan 17th 2009, 1:33 am
#38
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Choosing Wanganui, for us, it was because my husband got a job in Palmerston North and we knew fairly soon that we didnt really want to live there, as it didnt seem very *New Zealand* scenery-speaking. So being only 45 minutes from work (Wanganui) and being used to longer travel time in the UK, it seemed like a quaint (?sp) place to live and close to the beaches. I actual fact it is more like an hour commute and once living there, it seems like a colosal day trip to bother going to Palmy, so it felt very remote after we moved there.
We liked Wellington, but apart from going to the main shopping and waterfront areas, couldnt get a feel for the housing and I imagine it is pricey. We were not well paid healthcare workers so cost of living was a factor in our choice of Wanganui.
Love that you are enjoying Welly - Miss Kimi-Deacon! I often wonder how you are! Good on yer.
We liked Wellington, but apart from going to the main shopping and waterfront areas, couldnt get a feel for the housing and I imagine it is pricey. We were not well paid healthcare workers so cost of living was a factor in our choice of Wanganui.
Love that you are enjoying Welly - Miss Kimi-Deacon! I often wonder how you are! Good on yer.
Jan 17th 2009, 1:41 am
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Wellington
Posts: 367
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Choosing Wanganui, for us, it was because my husband got a job in Palmerston North and we knew fairly soon that we didnt really want to live there, as it didnt seem very *New Zealand* scenery-speaking. So being only 45 minutes from work (Wanganui) and being used to longer travel time in the UK, it seemed like a quaint (?sp) place to live and close to the beaches. I actual fact it is more like an hour commute and once living there, it seems like a colosal day trip to bother going to Palmy, so it felt very remote after we moved there.
We liked Wellington, but apart from going to the main shopping and waterfront areas, couldnt get a feel for the housing and I imagine it is pricey. We were not well paid healthcare workers so cost of living was a factor in our choice of Wanganui.
Love that you are enjoying Welly - Miss Kimi-Deacon! I often wonder how you are! Good on yer.
We liked Wellington, but apart from going to the main shopping and waterfront areas, couldnt get a feel for the housing and I imagine it is pricey. We were not well paid healthcare workers so cost of living was a factor in our choice of Wanganui.
Love that you are enjoying Welly - Miss Kimi-Deacon! I often wonder how you are! Good on yer.
One downside though no MOOSEHEADS Thats a definite plus side for living in Halifax, i love the way the crowds get behind there team, and loved the action on the ice, brutal or what but good fun. Have you heard from LiffyB lately?
Jan 17th 2009, 2:04 am
#40
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Hi Hon how are you, yep we are loving Welly One downside though no MOOSEHEADS Thats a definite plus side for living in Halifax, i love the way the crowds get behind there team, and loved the action on the ice, brutal or what but good fun. Have you heard from LiffyB lately?
One downside though no MOOSEHEADS Thats a definite plus side for living in Halifax, i love the way the crowds get behind there team, and loved the action on the ice, brutal or what but good fun. Have you heard from LiffyB lately?
Jan 17th 2009, 3:06 am
#41
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Wellington
Posts: 367
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Hey Girl lol, That sounds a Grand idea, i would take the Mooseheads any day over The All Blacks 
LiffyB said she went to a MH game when she was last out in NS and she said the atmosphere wasn't so good as it used to be.
Girl you must be freezing your butt off right now and heres us in Glorious Sunshine
LiffyB said she went to a MH game when she was last out in NS and she said the atmosphere wasn't so good as it used to be.Girl you must be freezing your butt off right now
and heres us in Glorious Sunshine
Jan 17th 2009, 8:19 am
#42
NS covern member #1
Joined: May 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 968
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Hey Girl lol, That sounds a Grand idea, i would take the Mooseheads any day over The All Blacks LiffyB said she went to a MH game when she was last out in NS and she said the atmosphere wasn't so good as it used to be.
Girl you must be freezing your butt off right now and heres us in Glorious Sunshine
LiffyB said she went to a MH game when she was last out in NS and she said the atmosphere wasn't so good as it used to be.Girl you must be freezing your butt off right now
and heres us in Glorious Sunshine
Jan 17th 2009, 5:55 pm
#43
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Whitby
Posts: 297
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Poppy2 - There you are stranger! got some news for you - but I think I'll PM you rather than announce it on the forum just yet! Glad to hear you are still enjoying NS!
LiffyB
- but I think I'll PM you rather than announce it on the forum just yet! Glad to hear you are still enjoying NS!LiffyB
Jan 17th 2009, 7:22 pm
#44
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,787
Re: Canada vs New Zealand?
Think this has gone off thread!
