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Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Old Jan 4th 2005, 3:58 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by jwatsonoz
I'd like some insight as to why this is so. OZPR's or OZ citizens can get NZPR on their arrival in NZ.

Most international rules are reciprical (i.e. healthcare / visa waver schemes). So I am bemused that OZ does not recipricate the benefits affored to OZPR's and OZ citizens.

Also, anybody got an insight as to why there will be such a large disparity between qualifying for citizenship? 2 years (OZ) compared to 5 years (NZ) is a big difference. What is oz trying to achieve? What is NZ trying to achieve? They must have very different perspectives.

Do people use OZ as a back door to get into NZ?

I never thought of moving to NZ because I heard it was similar to the UK. I didn't see much point moving somewhere similar to where I was already. Also I came via ENS. However I would imagine those desperate to get into NZ would be willing to enter oz first on their way there.

Another thing that I don't understand is the vagueness of the rule with OZPR wrt New Zealand residency. It states that you need a RRV but has anybody actually been turned back if they entered with a newly validated OZ PR visa? I haven't heard of anybody.

Does this mean that people can get OZPR (easier to obtain) and then fly to Auckland via Sydney to become NZPR? Sounds stupid if they allow it.

Oh well, if they made it simple none of them would have jobs!
The laws on Kiwis coming to Australia changed because there was a perceived element that NZers used to come to Oz to "dole bludge". I have heard idiots such as John Laws use the term "Kiwi Dole Bludgers" so I guess it must have been a favourite amongst the talk bollocks radio presenters. Apparently Bondi used to be full of them and the Bondi Hotel used to resemble a Manukau yob pit.
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 4:28 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

“New Zealand was colonized initially by those Australians who had the initiative to escape"

Robert Muldoon

"New Zealand is a country of thirty thousand million sheep, three million of whom think they are human."

Barry Humphries

"Terrible tragedy of the south seas. Three million people trapped alive."

Thomas Jefferson Scott

"The United States invented the space shuttle, the atomic bomb and Disneyland. We have 35 times more land than New Zealand, 80 times the population, 144 times the gross national product and 220 times as many people in jail.
Many of our big cities have more kilometres of freeway than all of New Zealand, our 10 biggest metropolises each have more people than all of New Zealand, and metropolitan Detroit has more cars on the road than all of New Zealand.
So how come a superpower of 270 million got routed in the America's Cup, the world's most technically oriented yacht race, by a country of 3.5 million that outproduces us only in sheep manure?"

Eric Sharp 1995

And finally the one that every Kiwi loves:

Another Rob Muldoon Quote (re: exodus of kiwis to Oz)


"It raises the IQ levels of both countries".


I thankyou
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 5:02 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by JAJ
I'd like some insight as to why this is so. OZPR's or OZ citizens can get NZPR on their arrival in NZ.

Most international rules are reciprical (i.e. healthcare / visa waver schemes). So I am bemused that OZ does not recipricate the benefits affored to OZPR's and OZ citizens.
New Zealand wants more immigrants from the 'right' sources and generally feels Australian citizens have good settlement prospects there (usually true). Also - not many Australians want to go to NZ, but lots of NZ citizens and PRs want to come to Australia.

Australia would be unlikely to change its rules even if NZ tightened up the concessions for Australian PRs and citizens. Incidentally it's quite possible that NZ will remove the ability of Australian PRs to settle in NZ, as part of it's next toughening up of migration rules.

Also, anybody got an insight as to why there will be such a large disparity between qualifying for citizenship? 2 years (OZ) compared to 5 years (NZ) is a big difference. What is oz trying to achieve? What is NZ trying to achieve? They must have very different perspectives.
The 5 year rule isn't in place in NZ yet, but will be soon.

Historically the two countries had similar rules. If you go back to the late 1970s, both Australia and NZ required 3 years for citizenship. Australia brought it down to 2 years in 1984.

The reason for NZ pushing up the residence requirement to 5 years is ostensibly to do with trying to discourage those who only see NZ as a stepping stone to Australia.

Do people use OZ as a back door to get into NZ?
Historically - no, because for a long time (eg most of the 1990s) Australia's rules were stricter than New Zealand's. The 'backdoor' was open in the other direction.

For a period in 2003/04 NZ was virtually closed but it's opened up a little once more. The two countries systems are different - yes, it's possible that someone might qualify for Australia and use it as a backdoor to NZ - but the numbers are so small they're not likely to cause much concern.

Also - with the new 5 year residence requirement for NZ citizenship it makes sense to get Australian citizenship before thinking about any move to NZ. Otherwise there is a risk of being left without status in both countries if you plan your moves badly (it's happened before).

I never thought of moving to NZ because I heard it was similar to the UK. I didn't see much point moving somewhere similar to where I was already. Also I came via ENS. However I would imagine those desperate to get into NZ would be willing to enter oz first on their way there.
If you want to go to NZ but only qualify for Australia - why not go to Tasmania?

Another thing that I don't understand is the vagueness of the rule with OZPR wrt New Zealand residency. It states that you need a RRV but has anybody actually been turned back if they entered with a newly validated OZ PR visa? I haven't heard of anybody.
It is a vague rule but the anecdotal evidence is that any Australian permanent visa with a re-entry facility is ok for NZ. At least as far as NZIS is concerned. That said, if you have a passport that requires a tourist visa for NZ it might be interesting to try to 'convince' airline staff at check-in overseas if you try and use an Australian PR visa instead.

Does this mean that people can get OZPR (easier to obtain) and then fly to Auckland via Sydney to become NZPR? Sounds stupid if they allow it.
- Australian PR is not necessarily easier to obtain, especially now the NZ skilled pass mark is down to 100 or so; and
- a loophole only becomes a problem if a lot of people try to use it. The evidence is that the vast majority of applicants to Australia view NZ as a fall-back option, not a first choice.

Jeremy
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 5:11 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Lenmil
Has any one lived in Australia and New zealand, and if so which one in you opinion is better. Things like salary and cost of living etc. Im in NZ at the moment and its not as cheap as you think. I hear that wages in Oz are 30% higher than NZ. Any comments would be great, ta. Still waiting for the great summer weather, it ain't here yet.
Just returned from a holiday in NZ and it is cold there isn't it!!!??? It is nice and hot here. I prefer Australia to live in. I would recommend Australia over NZ.
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 5:31 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Lenmil
Has any one lived in Australia and New zealand, and if so which one in you opinion is better. Things like salary and cost of living etc. Im in NZ at the moment and its not as cheap as you think. I hear that wages in Oz are 30% higher than NZ. Any comments would be great, ta. Still waiting for the great summer weather, it ain't here yet.

Without a doubt Australia is far better than NZ...for me anyway. I lived there for 2yrs with my husband who is a born and bred Kiwi. Neither of us ever want to go back to live. Its agreat place to holiday and he scenery is fantastic, but living there is a whole different ball game. It was way too quiet for us.
My husband is a 5th generation "white" pakeha. He was very despondant after being away for 12yrs at how political and unjust some of the new rulings and treaty issues were affecting him as a pakeha in his own country. The infighting, reverse prejudice, and racism was becoming an issue for him.
Just one trivial example... he wanted to quit smoking and phoned up the national quit helpline to get the free pack advertised on TV..first question he was asked..."are you Maori?"... when he answered no, he was told he wasnt entitled to it free and had to pay!!..he had no issue with paying, but was astonished that because he had white skin he wasnt wntitled to what the Maori were... and before anyone starts dribbling on about past wrongdoings by whites.. he has always been on their side of the arguement for most of their issues..BUT... how do you justify access to help purely on your race?
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 7:06 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by podgypossum
Without a doubt Australia is far better than NZ...for me anyway. I lived there for 2yrs with my husband who is a born and bred Kiwi. Neither of us ever want to go back to live. Its agreat place to holiday and he scenery is fantastic, but living there is a whole different ball game. It was way too quiet for us.
My husband is a 5th generation "white" pakeha. He was very despondant after being away for 12yrs at how political and unjust some of the new rulings and treaty issues were affecting him as a pakeha in his own country. The infighting, reverse prejudice, and racism was becoming an issue for him.
Just one trivial example... he wanted to quit smoking and phoned up the national quit helpline to get the free pack advertised on TV..first question he was asked..."are you Maori?"... when he answered no, he was told he wasnt entitled to it free and had to pay!!..he had no issue with paying, but was astonished that because he had white skin he wasnt wntitled to what the Maori were... and before anyone starts dribbling on about past wrongdoings by whites.. he has always been on their side of the arguement for most of their issues..BUT... how do you justify access to help purely on your race?
When I was there recently alot of pakeha were saying that is a question they hear many times. And it usually means they have to pay for something or are denied it. And they were moderate non-racist people who support equality.
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Old Jan 4th 2005, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Superior
It might be you that is the bad driver? And everyone else are good drivers.
Everyone believes they are an above average driver. I just try to drive safely.

Are you trying to be ironic with your username?
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 4:21 am
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Default Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Ho podgypossum (really cool avatar by the way)

You are absolutely right, the average white pakeha is very irritated by ethnic privileges afforded to non-European ethnic groups.

Such ethnic privileges include reduced health care costs, reduced tertiary education costs and of course the perceived gravy train of Watangi. In addition there are also numerous other ethnic privileges afforded of a more subtle nature.

The only way to change these practises is via the ballot box and as Helen appears to be in a strong position don’t hold your breath.

For me I really do not worry about it, and whilst I might irk at reverse-racial injustice in the short term, I have experienced no problems.

As far as the driving is concerned Kiwi children are permitted to drive at age 15. There are various hoops to jump through but essentially a young Kiwi adult can have 3 years experience driving before taking their test. And of course young adults being young adults……..there is a need for speed!

For the record I have always considered myself to be a crap driver……….but I am polite on the road and I do give way!

I thankyou.


Footnote: We don't have any nasty snakes in NZ! We don't have snakes in NZ!
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 4:32 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Nice Guy
We don't have snakes in NZ!
I was surprised by that, so did a google search for snakes in NZ, and the first NZ result came up with something about ........ "Snakes and Ladders"
 
Old Jan 5th 2005, 7:53 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

And we have no such things as the Red Back, Funnel Web or Huntsman spider.

We do have the White Tail, I found one in my house, big bloke, I let him go outside.

I thankyou
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 8:07 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

:scared:
Originally Posted by Nice Guy
And we have no such things as the Red Back, Funnel Web or Huntsman spider.

We do have the White Tail, I found one in my house, big bloke, I let him go outside.

I thankyou

you also have the Wheta..totally harmless but one of the ugliest insects i have ever had the misfortune to meet!! .. but i think i would rather have dinner with one of those than Helen Clarke :scared:
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 8:15 am
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Default Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Just as pretty as some MP's.................




Handsome looking beastie!


I thankyou

Last edited by Nice Guy; Jan 5th 2005 at 8:21 am. Reason: Found a better piccie
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 8:23 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Thing I miss in NZ is untouched bush - not much left - bit like Britain.
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 8:42 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by Quinkana
Thing I miss in NZ is untouched bush - not much left - bit like Britain.
ROFLMAO...mabe its just my filthy mind...but....
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Old Jan 5th 2005, 8:47 am
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Default Re: Is Australia better than New Zealand.

Originally Posted by podgypossum
ROFLMAO...mabe its just my filthy mind...but....
Think you are more than a bit touched, right?
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