msi geek

After having worked in NZ for about 3 years, I am currently overseas - looking to come back if I can find a suitable job - do not wish to undersell myself - very limited opportunities in a country (or village) called NZ.

No concept of specialisation in NZ - everyone is an IT guy or girl - the magicians who know everything and who can do anything - specialisation against the principles of socialism.

Around 8 years of experience in Application Packaging & Deployment and SOE Design/Desktop Engineering working as Tech Consultant and Subject Matter Expert with leading global blue chips?

Any roles for "SPECIALISTS" in NZ

Most Managers in NZ themselves do not understand technology well and hired because of influential contacts - my previous bosses included

1. Sports Coach Lady - directly hired as IT manager - ZERO IT experience - reputed org like Unisys - 105K/annum - wellington
2. House Maid to a Senior PM - Zero IT experience - EDS - 95K/annum - Auckland

Anyways, desperate to be in touch with the top talent of NZ who can really value good experience - has everyone left?

lapsed kiwi

I'd say with your attitude you're probably better sticking with Australia, where arrogance and a feeling of superiority over the natives will probably be more the social norm than here in NZ. Good luck.

Stormer999

When you left NZ .......it was such a village where your skills were at such a high level that most managers, not only being unable to utilise them, likely didn't even understand them..........what has changed?

dytopia

Specialism has drawbacks. Before I left the UK, in 1996, I worked in a very narrow programming field, developing radiology systems for the NHS. I wasn't allowed anywhere near the "fun stuff" which was reserved for those from an Oxford/Cambridge background - not joking - who were fast-tracked into windows' development! I was allowed to work on DOS but not Windows which at the time was considered an 'elite' programming job!
Anyhow, when I left the UK, I found out that because I was treated like a mushroom my programing skills were way behind the rest of my overseas' fellows.

Yep, NZ is definetly a generalist kind of place, and in my experience that's a pretty healthy thing. You won't be treated differently in NZ just because of the position of your tongue when you speak.

JohnThePom

God I feel like an old codger.

A good employer would realise that specialist skills are of limited worth in computing. You can pick up a new IDE or even a new language in a few weeks and become proficient in a few months. Also who would want to work for a company that is so badly managed that new-hires have to hit the ground running and fully skilled in exactly the right flavour of software toolkit?

Hmmm, doesn't sound like they're going to rate training does it?

It IS general skills and attributes that make the difference. How many 'clever' programmers have I come across who can't communicate, can't organise and can't see the wood for the trees.

Continuing in a similar vein - why do companies always look for thrusting, dynamic, ambitious staff? How many ambitious people do you need to hire to realise that they will just move in, mess things up and then move on when another opportunity comes along or you don't flatter their egos enough?

Salesmen maybe, executives perhaps, but coders?

They need to be accurate, motivated and dedicated. Ideally they should work well in teams and be good communicators and planners as well.

Feeling Whingy,

WP

msi geek

Whatever one would say, NZ is a land of five employers and five hundred recruiting agencies. The same role can often be advertised on seek by 2 dozen recruiters.

I came from Singapore to NZ inspite of being warned by Hiring Manager (Aussie by the way)

"You want come to NZ? Are you sure???"

Yes, Australia or NZ? - was under the impression that NZ is more like UK or Australia....

In hindsight, regretting my decision to leave Singapore - 5% tax.

Kiwis hate specialisation - all employers are like - when the expected salary is right - everything else is also right.

I remember my hiring experience with gen-i - were not ready to negotiate even 1%. They told me that they will not conduct any technical interviews - only thing of interest - my expected salary. Their engineers are so low paid - a taxi driver in Auckland can earn more than them.

The role was repeatedly advertised on seek for 6 months - could not find anyone not because of skill shortages, because of very low pay.

dannigirl

Remind us again why you want to return to NZ

AH30

Good point. First they regret leaving Singapore and coming to NZ the first time and now wants to come back, very strange.

msi geek

Countless jobs, No job security in many Asian countries - hence the decision to move to NZ in hope of a better future. NZ govt. has now made it mandatory to live in NZ for 5 years instead of 3 years before - most migrants fly to Australia on the day they acquire citizenship. So, not enough tax money from migrants - let them wait 5 years.

NZ is a giant transit lounge for Australia.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/540999

Stay in transit for 5 instead of 3 years.

Half million kiwis left for Australia, quarter million to UK/Ireland - nobody left back to pay taxes - NZ getting empty.

Here is an interesting stat:

This is based on the estimated resident population at 31 March 2010 and the following component settings. (Note: these settings are subject to change.)


http://stats.govt.nz/methods_and_ser...ion_clock.aspx


a net migration loss of one New Zealand resident every 77 minutes and 24 seconds.


There are a few Kiwis who are very highly paid - contacts in NZ far more important than skills, experience, kowledge, performance, etc. Not impossible to earn good money - but very very difficult in NZ.

I will be happy to catch the next flight to NZ if I offered 100K, but just wishful thinking - such salaries are reserved for influential locals - migrants can fill up other low paying roles.

Such is the brain drain in NZ currently, not enough skilled people left to attract other like minded skilled migrants.

Liked Auckland very much - cosmopolitan like an American city. Aucklanders are very easy going people just like Americans and very globally aware.

Wellington - slightly conservative and old fashioned people - do not want to change with the times.

Christchurch - where does UK end and NZ begin - let the attitude prevail.


When I applied for NZ work permit, approved within 5 days - Permanent Residency within 3 weeks.

For Australia:

2-3 months to get Work Visa
1-2 years to get PR.


I guess things in demand are NOT always very easy to get and otherwise.

AH30

This article is almost 2 years old. Perhaps NZ still has a small net migration loss but it's improved a lot in the last 2 years dur to global recession meaning countries like the UK are not as attractive. NZ's recession has not been as bad as many other countries but worse than Australia.

This is true anywhere. The importance of contacts for a successful career cannot be overstated. This is true in Business as well as employment. As an employer myself I will always choose someone I know and who is capable over someone I don't know. One reason is that there is less risk because you know they can do the job well, you don't have to risk employing someone who's no good. The second reason is it's cheaper. To employ someone I don't know means I have to spend money on advertising or paying a recruitment agency (not cheap).

RobClubley

Have to disagree with you on a few points
Your generalisations of the cities are interesting and completely different from mine.

As for 100k salaries - I know lots of Brits and South Africans who are at that sort of level. Most started lower, built a reputation and got there by hard work. Wellington IT is a small world and if you do a good job you will get a reputation and the better jobs will come your way.
Maybe you need to tone down your attitude and earn your 100k salary rather than expecting to walk into it?

DeepSix

i know i am not in the IT field but
re $100K salary.

I make more than that now.. ive been here 8 years.. it took a few years on low ish pay to get a reputation, then it was all systems go.

its going to sound like bragging ( it isnt.. just a true account of the current situation) i was asked to join another firm ( early this year) and they said "oh for someone with your skill set and experience we would be thinking at least $90K..

Now i didnt take the role for various reasons once of which was the reduction in pay!

Is NZ a low wage economy.. probably.. can you make good money .. yes.. and by good money i mean respectable in any part of the world

( for chuckles i checked out what role i would have to take back in the UK to have the same salary.. turns out things like European Director etc.. most of the jobs i am not qualified nor experienced to even put my C.V. in for... so NZ isnt as bad as its cracked up to be, for everyone)

Jan n Neil

He aint wrong


Neil

msi geek

Auckland and Wellington are very popular with migrants from all countries - many locals have Overseas Experience (OE) and and know the world is bigger than NZ - many respect foreign ideas and give due weightage to overseas work experience.


Christchurch - English city - " Yes Boss " attitude
Dunedin - Scottish city - " Prudish " attitude

When I working in Auckland, my team consisted of

One Aussie Boss (the best boss I ever had in my career)
One British lad from Brighton, UK - unlike the typical Brit
Two Kiwis returning from UK (very polite and easy going)
1 German (very polite and technically solid - still in touch with him)
3 Indians
2 Chinese
2 guys from Fiji
1 Korean (grumpy about low pay, but always would speak his mind)
1 chap from Samoa

There was a such a good team spirit and mateship. Left the company because of redundancy like situation, could not find another job with similar type of like minded boss and work culture.

Maybe that is why Auckland is rated high by Mercer as 4th most livable city of the world.

Top 5 cities - Overall

Vienna, Austria (1st)
Zurich, Switzerland (2nd)
Geneva, Switzerland (3rd )
Vancouver, Canada (tied 4th)
Auckland, New Zealand (tied 4th)


There are no or little pay rises in permanent jobs - contracting in NZ is only advisable for all rounders - "the IT guy" who knows anything about everything.

Contractors can gross 100K or more in a calender year - very difficult for permanent employees though.

bcworld

Care to elaborate?