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Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Old Feb 6th 2013, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by Synky
For info....Median salary is Glasgow is $42k and average house price is $310k. That's 7.3 times.

So it's crappy everywhere.
So the issue re wages v house prices is creeping in everywhere now. I remember 3-4 years ago the ratio of NZ wages to house price median about was 8 or 9. Also remember in NZ you will pay way more in interest than you do in the UK. Here our OCR is 2.5%. In the UK its 0.5%. That on its own makes houses here in NZ much less affordable.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 8:22 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Glasgow's a bit odd though.

(not just in terms of the housing )

There are lots and lots of tenement flats which I remember being quite cheap (although this was some years ago) OR detached bungalows in only the posher areas like Bearsden and Newton Mearns. I don't remember seeing miles and miles of terraced houses and semis that like gets in the average English town.

So, quoting the average for a Glaswegian house is perhaps a bit misleading.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 8:27 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by love30stm
people don't realise we don't have brick houses for that reason!!!
True (I live in a brick-clad house and am informed that in the event of an earthquake the cladding will fall outwards) but I think the reason for the comparive unaffordability of NZ houses is the amount of land one gets with the house. My very average, unfashionable 60's bungalow is on a section at least twice as big as the average freehold plot in the UK.

In other parts of town, the sections are bigger - but allow for little garden as the sections have big bungalows sprawled all over them like some bloke watching the sport on a Saturday afternoon.

I suspect that per square foot NZ property is cheaper than in the UK - the problem being that purchasers are obliged to buy larger sections.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 8:31 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by simonsi
That sentence alone shows the weakness of comparing averages.

EVERY immigrant should look at their earning potential in NZ, in the area they are interested in and then look at house prices there, or within a commute. That is, lets face it, the same process anyone sensible would take when looking at moving within the UK (or within any other country).

Frankly, I could say houses are much more "affordable" in the South Island than where I live on the Shore - but my earning potential is perhaps less than half that in Auckland so maybe less affordable in real life for me and not a risk I am willing to take...but that is an assessment I have to make, no averages vs medians is going to tell me that.
You are of course right that all potential immigrants should do their due dilligence, so to speak, but I think the point needs to be made for a number of reasons.

1. Some immigrants don't.
2. it is useful for immigrants to have benchmark figures when looking at prices for individual houses, to know whether they are getting a good deal.
3. our dear Gvt is quite happy to pretend there is no housing crisis by saying it's worse in other countries.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 4:46 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by _0v0_
You are of course right that all potential immigrants should do their due dilligence, so to speak, but I think the point needs to be made for a number of reasons.

1. Some immigrants don't.
2. it is useful for immigrants to have benchmark figures when looking at prices for individual houses, to know whether they are getting a good deal.
3. our dear Gvt is quite happy to pretend there is no housing crisis by saying it's worse in other countries.
But the point isnt simply "made", it is a complex issue that stands or completely falls depending on the personal circumstances and history of circumstances of the individual concerned. As posts above have stated, the issue of house prices vs incomes is replicated and worse in other areas in other countries (not all of whom build brick-and-tile), it isnt a unique NZ problem.

Whether this issue makes a particular house "unaffordable" for a particular immigrant involves a whole load of other factors in a combination possibly unique to that individual.

Most financial advisors would balk at this leap :-)
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by _0v0_
True (I live in a brick-clad house and am informed that in the event of an earthquake the cladding will fall outwards) but I think the reason for the comparive unaffordability of NZ houses is the amount of land one gets with the house. My very average, unfashionable 60's bungalow is on a section at least twice as big as the average freehold plot in the UK.

In other parts of town, the sections are bigger - but allow for little garden as the sections have big bungalows sprawled all over them like some bloke watching the sport on a Saturday afternoon.

I suspect that per square foot NZ property is cheaper than in the UK - the problem being that purchasers are obliged to buy larger sections.
Ha! I'm sure there must be some reason for it. If you shift the goal-posts like this then of course NZ property will be both cheaper AND more expensive at the same time.

You really need to compare like-for-like in this discussion otherwise any comparison falls flat.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 4:56 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by Genesis
So the issue re wages v house prices is creeping in everywhere now. I remember 3-4 years ago the ratio of NZ wages to house price median about was 8 or 9. Also remember in NZ you will pay way more in interest than you do in the UK. Here our OCR is 2.5%. In the UK its 0.5%. That on its own makes houses here in NZ much less affordable.
Only if the bank margins are the same.
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Old Feb 6th 2013, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by Genesis
Here our OCR is 2.5%. In the UK its 0.5%. That on its own makes houses here in NZ much less affordable.
It is financial suicide and doen't bear thinking about when you look at the compounded interest over the lifetime of a mortgage.
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 8:51 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by simonsi
Ha! I'm sure there must be some reason for it. If you shift the goal-posts like this then of course NZ property will be both cheaper AND more expensive at the same time.

You really need to compare like-for-like in this discussion otherwise any comparison falls flat.
Exactly - all very well talking about the average house, but what is the average house in London? I can almost guarantee it's not detached, with some (albeit small in Auckland) garden, at least one, probably double garage plus multiple off-street parking. On the other hand it probably has good heating and is made from permanent materials...
From my perspective, I live in a large, 4-bedroom house with multiple living areas, 1000 sq m section, double garage, very nice neighbourhood, less than 3 minutes drive to a great swimming beach, and less than an hour rush-hour commute to the CBD of the country's main city. Value is around 300k UKP. I'm trying to think where you could get this in London
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 9:16 am
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by lapsed kiwi
Exactly - all very well talking about the average house, but what is the average house in London? I can almost guarantee it's not detached, with some (albeit small in Auckland) garden, at least one, probably double garage plus multiple off-street parking. On the other hand it probably has good heating and is made from permanent materials...

From my perspective, I live in a large, 4-bedroom house with multiple living areas, 1000 sq m section, double garage, very nice neighbourhood, less than 3 minutes drive to a great swimming beach, and less than an hour rush-hour commute to the CBD of the country's main city. Value is around 300k UKP. I'm trying to think where you could get this in London
Simply put, there is no UK city or town with a population over 100,000 people that offers anything like this.

I fail to understand the issue with a lack of central heating and double glazing given what the trade offs are.

In fact the rented house is live in is poorly insulated, some of the radiators are knackered and it's not all double glazed, it's not the end of the world and there is always another layer you can put on.

It's 2 bed terrace, the garden has no grass in it. It's a patch of concrete and some flowers around the edge. There is street parking only and if you're unlucky you'll have to settle to park up to 300 yards away.

I rent in Brentford. It's not bad, but not salubrious. Similar properties sell on my street for £275k - £330k.

Brentford has a lot going for it; it's in zone 4 if that means anything to anyone. It's very handy for Heathrow (though on the flight path, noisy, but you get used to it). It takes just over half an hour to get in to Central London by train. It is on the doorstep of the M4, as well as the M3 being close by. It's also a base for massive business with GSK towering alongside the M4 flyover. Also, Allianz (the German Bank) have a large base there.

That said Brentford is quite a working class community and as akin to a village that has excellent route in and out of London.


Given the choice, I'd rather live with Lapsed Kiwi - the value for money, in my opinon, doesn't bear comparisom.

For what it's worth, I pay £1,100 a month in rent and £1,600 a year in council tax.

Last edited by TommyLuck; Feb 7th 2013 at 9:20 am.
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 6:35 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

One should think that house prices are very low in a countries that have lots of space and in countries with a higher population and less space they should be more expensive. I still can not see why anyone would compare prices in London with prices in Auckland. London is a world city in one of the major countries with high population density and Auckland is a country town in an agricultural remote island with lots of space. Of course houses should be much (!!) cheaper in Auckland/NZ than in London/UK. And moving to a country town like Auckland one should expect to have a garden and not much else. Moving to London one expect to have great city live and not a garden.
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 6:41 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by Assanah
One should think that house prices are very low in a countries that have lots of space and in countries with a higher population and less space they should be more expensive. I still can not see why anyone would compare prices in London with prices in Auckland. London is a world city in one of the major countries with high population density and Auckland is a country town in an agricultural remote island with lots of space. Of course houses should be much (!!) cheaper in Auckland/NZ than in London/UK. And moving to a country town like Auckland one should expect to have a garden and not much else. Moving to London one expect to have great city live and not a garden.
Obviously your reference is to Germany - do you think that the obsession in The UK and NZ to own property, compared to Germans, by and large having a renting culture has a significant effect on the costs of a home?
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 7:49 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Assanah's points are correct. What your expectations are for NZ are somewhat different to what you expect in a city such as London. As far as value for money is concerned, (and this is the cental pont of this discusiion) NZ leaves much to be desired. I agree that Auckland is not a large city in the sense of the word. It feels more lioke a country town with lots of numerous suburbs and no real vibrant centre.

I remembr the first day I arfrived in Auckland, we went runnng arund the city trying to find the heart of the place. It doesn't exist! And considering the size of the country, you should certainly get more for your money from the houses.

Folks immigrate for a better life. Noone comes to have a worse life than they leave. If they can have a reasonalbe job, affordable accommodation and a good choice of shops which compare to the UK say, then they are happy. Unfortunately, this basic desire is becoming more difficult to achieve here in NZ. due to the very high cost of most things and the lower wages and lack of choice.
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 9:34 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by whitesand
Folks immigrate for a better life. Noone comes to have a worse life than they leave. If they can have a reasonalbe job, affordable accommodation and a good choice of shops which compare to the UK say, then they are happy. Unfortunately, this basic desire is becoming more difficult to achieve here in NZ. due to the very high cost of most things and the lower wages and lack of choice.
Very true and I wonder why people still have NZ on their radar, pretty much the only thing going for it these days is a low population and maybe that its a nice place to bring up kids until they need a job!!! If we moved today from the UK to NZ we would have been nearly $300k worse off in terms of what we got 8 years ago. Don't think I would have made the move personally, the kiwi is so very, very low people coming now must either have very little money or loads of it...either way they would not be overly bothered!
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Old Feb 7th 2013, 9:58 pm
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Default Re: Affordability of houses: NZ v UK

Originally Posted by TommyLuck
Obviously your reference is to Germany - do you think that the obsession in The UK and NZ to own property, compared to Germans, by and large having a renting culture has a significant effect on the costs of a home?
I was just pointing out the difference between an industrial country such as the UK (or Germany) with lots of people and with big cities such as London and an agricultural rural country such as NZ without real city life but with lots of space. One should expect that lots of space means cheaper prices for houses with big gardens and lack of space means higher prices for generally smaller houses with smaller gardens. So I can't really understand the drooling over having bigger gardens in NZ than in London.

Last edited by Assanah; Feb 7th 2013 at 10:02 pm.
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