Kotare

Glad to see that you are a self defined ' smart woman with a good sense of humour' can we have an independent assessment :-) note emoticon.

BEVS

I'll vouch for BB. She is wise beyond her years & something of an old soul.

bourbon-biscuit

Note: I didn't say genius, just smart; I know it can be uncomfortable when women are not modest and self deprecating. Here's an emoticon so I can pretend I am joking

However, my point there was to counter your accusation that a lack of a sense of humour was why I (and others) took your post at face value. It's a bit disingenuous to call "just joking" after people say they don't like your post.

Kotare

I feel adding an emoticon after every tongue in cheek post a bit offputting (why not put up a sign saying 'laugh now' as they do in live sit coms).

My final comment (maybe) on this thread.

If you want your parents to help you raise your children on a semi daily basis - pop round for a cuppa - babysit as needed etc as was outlined earlier in the thread don't migrate to NZ. If your parents can't grow old without you (also mentioned) the same applies.

If you can cope independently (using modern social media etc) then you might be happy here. Now where did I put that small rugby ball

j19fmm

This report was from 2011 and certainly was not the norm then or in ensuing years. We actually had one of the Judges mentioned in the report. There's a lot of detail missing from the report too.

LittleGreyCat

Recognising the tongue in cheek bit, I am with you all the way.

When you have put others first for most of your adult life, and are just beginning to enjoy the freedom you never had in your youth, there is no obligation to sacrifice the last third of your life to provide free child care and be constantly fitting into the agenda of others.

If you are still broody/nesting/dependant on emotional support from your extended family or really, really longing to involve yourself in the lives of your grandchildren then fine, you make your choices accordingly.

This doesn't mean this is the correct or only way.

Just in the same way that a couple are not obliged to have children, even though this may be resented by couples with children or the unfortunate ones who are childless due to circumstances and not by choice.

Life is full of choices; your choice is not necessarily mandatory for all others.

Our children are globe trotting; one just back from Australia the other settled in NZ. There is no way that we would sacrifice our own independence to follow them around the world as unpaid domestic servants should they have children. Which leads onto another point; if you have two children both with young families and they are on different continents how do you decide which one you are going to provide year round family support for?

Those who cannot function emotionally without being part of a close knit extended family should factor that into any decision to emigrate; I sympathise with those who have only discovered this after emigrating because it can be harsh to feel isolated.

However I do not think that the level of criticism I have read so far for someone who doesn't have the same specific emotional needs is either fair or justified.

Hazelnut

I saw one set of grandparents for five days, once a year. The others died when I was still young. I never met any relatives from my Dad's side until I was an adult and I've only met them four times in my whole life. I met the one Aunt and two Uncles on my mothers side for a day about once every five years. I never knew my cousins at all. Does that give you enough explanation and detail to consider my point valid?

I was simply trying to make the point that I don't think or feel that I've missed out at all by not knowing my blood relatives. My parents moved around to give us a secure and good lifestyle. In contrast MrH grew up surrounded by over 40 close relatives in a small geographical region and couldn't wait to move away, we've had no contact with most of them for over 20yrs and don't miss them at all.

My opinion and feeling is that parents shouldn't feel guilty at giving their children a good lifestyle and different opportunities. Being able to move around for jobs and lifestyle means that, for me as an individual, I think I've had a far richer and better life than if I'd been tethered to a small village, unable to get work and expected by all to simply get married and have a bushel of babies whilst living in poverty.

simonsi

Try using an inappropriate tone of voice with some of your interactions today, see how that works. Its the same thing, if you want to be lazy and shortcut with plain text then thats your choice but some of what you say will be misinterpreted as a result, no-one's fault but your own.

Kotare

I wasn't the one who climbed onto my high horse and got upset - to quote one who did, I note BB's postscript 'In the words of a wise woman: I should add: I don't care'. I don't measure up as either female or particularly smart, but quite happy to fight my corner. Faux outrage at any slightly contentious viewpoint is one of the things destroying our political and social life.

But shouldn't we get back to the main topic

BEVS

Point of order :

Actually you were the one that became upset at what other posters had politely written & were actually quite uncomplimentary to others whose viewpoint differed from your own.

Re BB's signature. She is actually quoting me from some years ago I think you'll find. I'm both female and smart

What I am actually reading here is about love of or for family & that for each person it is a personal & very individual life experience. No one size fits . That is all.

Anyone emigrating to New Zealand and who does not have connections or ties to this far flung place really needs to think long and hard about that.

BEVS

From the many posts we've had on here over the years, it certainly does seem a huge exception to the norm.

I conclude there is something missing from public eyes.

Kotare

Only after a threefold attack if you bother reading back - but we won't agree so hasta la vista on this topic :-)

bourbon-biscuit

Kotare, do you really not see the difference? I disagreed with your post and said it was sad and misguided; you attacked people by saying we were "the usual miserable suspects" and that those who didn't share your perspective could "get a life".

Reread and see if you get the distinction. If you still don't, then forums really aren't for you.

Kotare

Is it a female trait to want the last word :-) BB if you read back you will find i accepted some people need an encompassing family, but many not.

We don't agree, we won't agree (given your apparent inability to accept other lifestyles/viewpoints) and I am quite happy with my (male) perspective thanks - I suggest we ignore each other :-)

But be aware I have always believed attack was the best form of defence.

Have a nice day.

BEVS

No. Not particularly a female trait as you are showing Kotare.

Thrice you have made a post indicating that it should be the last word.

To be clear about my own post. No-one called you sad. No-one attacked you. What happened was that assorted posters stated they found your point of view to be 'sad' in their eyes . However, your response was to then be personally uncomplimentary to those that did not share your view. I did check back. Of course I did.

Personal attack is not the best way to discuss or state a viewpoint as it undermines what one wants to get across. It deflects & reflects.

From my own point of view on this topic, I don't think it is a case of 'need' at all. To state 'need' implies there is something lacking in the dynamics of the family or the personality of an individual. It implies that an adult may not be a competent independent person. That there is something clingy or insular in some way ,when of course this is not the case at all. Anymore than someone who easily copes with not seeing or being with family is somehow self-centred or lacking in emotion intelligence.

I think it is about love & the way in which one values that . Not just that but how you wish to invest into that love. As I wrote. No one size fits all.