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1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Old Feb 12th 2006, 10:32 pm
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Default 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Hi Everyone,

I was mortified to read about the use of 1080 poison use in NZ - described asa Top 10 weapon in chemical warefare. 1080's use is extremely widespread and uncontrolled! I'm very sorry we've got so far down the application process only to learn of this - it's definitely changing my mind!

Although designed to eradicate the Possum population, 1080 pellets kill indiscriminately - PETS, and native wildlife / preserved species, as well as posing a risk to water supplies. In the Hutt area of Wellington 33 dogs died after one aerial application. It's also used indiscriminately by organisations / businesses & Farmers - how the heck can you protect your dog or young kids from that when there is no antidote?!

I'm mostly concerned about my dog - it's not just the taste 'muesli-bar flavoured' pellets that pose a risk - poisoned possums can travel over 5 kilometers and that's mostly how dogs are being killed. The death of a dog from 1080 is NASTY - I've been reading they have fits, convulsions, bleed from the ears / nose / mouth.

My dog is one of my family and I consder her like other people do their child - I was be distraught if this were to happen. It looks like we've made a bad choice but I can't believe how NZ have their best-kept secret kept from unsuspecting Expats.

Am I the only one who's spotted this? Please people - your thoughts and feedback on 1080.
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Old Feb 12th 2006, 11:44 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by PRinAuckland
Hi Everyone,

I was mortified to read about the use of 1080 poison use in NZ - described asa Top 10 weapon in chemical warefare. 1080's use is extremely widespread and uncontrolled! I'm very sorry we've got so far down the application process only to learn of this - it's definitely changing my mind!

Although designed to eradicate the Possum population, 1080 pellets kill indiscriminately - PETS, and native wildlife / preserved species, as well as posing a risk to water supplies. In the Hutt area of Wellington 33 dogs died after one aerial application. It's also used indiscriminately by organisations / businesses & Farmers - how the heck can you protect your dog or young kids from that when there is no antidote?!

I'm mostly concerned about my dog - it's not just the taste 'muesli-bar flavoured' pellets that pose a risk - poisoned possums can travel over 5 kilometers and that's mostly how dogs are being killed. The death of a dog from 1080 is NASTY - I've been reading they have fits, convulsions, bleed from the ears / nose / mouth.

My dog is one of my family and I consder her like other people do their child - I was be distraught if this were to happen. It looks like we've made a bad choice but I can't believe how NZ have their best-kept secret kept from unsuspecting Expats.

Am I the only one who's spotted this? Please people - your thoughts and feedback on 1080.

That sounds very scary indeed. I am a little unsure as to why they need to make them 'muesli-bar' flavoured. Are possums particularly attracted to muesli bars or are they really targeting vegetarians who refuse to eat lamb and hence cripple the national industry? Why are so many sheep allowed to roam around in New Zealand when they are quite clearly not a native species and their introduction has had such an obviously profound impact on the local environment. (at least they are safe from 1080 since sheep are not renowned muesli eaters.)

I am sure that the use of 1080 is carefully targeted towards specific species like possums, pommy dogs, pommy children and Gypsies who may be partial to an occasional 'possum pasty' when a convenient 'road kill' or '1080' becomes available.

So who could possibly get upset about that?

You are obviously worrying over a trifle (muesli-bar flavoured, of course!!!)
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 12:24 am
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Do you own a dog?!

Muesli flavoured or not, 1080 drops are made in 98% of the country and dogs, being well known *sniffers*, will smell a dead possum 5 miles away and go investigating, it's in their nature.

Imagine watching your dog die in the most horrific way possible? Nor can I! These pellets are everywhere and there's nothing you can do if your dog eats one (or a poisoned possum for that matter!).

I've read that by keeping your animal in kennels for 6 months AFTER a drop you can protect your dog, but apart from this... best of British!
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:09 am
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

I do own a dog. He is part of the family. He goes on walks. He's very much alive. Baited areas are clearly marked. We take him into these areas on a lead and don't allow him to eat the bait - muesli flavoured or not.

I realy wouldn't get your knickers in a twist over this one - I don't think the problem is quite as big here as you may have been led to believe.
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:32 am
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

This has answered a few questions so and advance thank you.

Firstly my wife has been giving me muesli bars for breakfast, lunch and desert at dinner and I have been a bit light headed, especially when we were up the Sky tower. All is now explained.

Secondly I work for a firm of accountants in the CBD area of Auckland and I think they might be up to the same thing. every meeting there are muffins, biscuits or various other cakes all with muesli tones to them and four people have resigned in the last 2 weeks, but as far as I am aware none have dogs???? Very puzzling.

Finally we have done some travelling about recently and the number of possums that have obviously eaten this stuff and committed suicide by walking in front of cars, trucks, tractors or even steam rollers is astounding.

Really though do you think this would be tolerated in a well rounded society that is the home of Greenpeace and pineapple chunks (of course).

Woof Woof (I don't know what noise possums make but they could make a nice pie according to the local Maaaaad butcher)
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:40 am
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Clearly PRinakl is living under a bridge, so won't be affected by aerial drops of 1080. My experience with this is that the areas are clearly marked, and somewhat less than 98% of the country is covered by special muesli at any one time - thankfully, because otherwise I'd only have a small safe area in the corner of my garden.
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 10:03 am
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Ok people, stop being sarcy, I've read some news reports and got my knickers in a twist. We're reconsidering the move because of this, and because I've read a lot of posts about how dog-unfriendly it is. Serious answers sought please - why have I read news reports that 50 dogs in the Hutt died after one 1080 drop - I've a right to be worried and I've no way of knowing from this side of the world how widespread this stuff is used.
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

OK, sorry, your post was so hysterical it sounded like a troll. Seriously, it's not as if the whole country is covered with this stuff. What is the source of the Hutt story? The only news I could find on 1080 is here stuff story . My experience is that poisoned areas are marked, and you either don't take your dog there, or keep him on a lead. So far, in 4 months, I've seen two 1080 areas, and I've done lots of exploring. I must admit, it does cross my mind when the dog is having a good run in a forest, but not to the extent of changing my life plans!
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:00 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by PRinAuckland
Hi Everyone,

I was mortified to read about the use of 1080 poison use in NZ - described asa Top 10 weapon in chemical warefare. 1080's use is extremely widespread and uncontrolled! I'm very sorry we've got so far down the application process only to learn of this - it's definitely changing my mind!

Although designed to eradicate the Possum population, 1080 pellets kill indiscriminately - PETS, and native wildlife / preserved species, as well as posing a risk to water supplies. In the Hutt area of Wellington 33 dogs died after one aerial application. It's also used indiscriminately by organisations / businesses & Farmers - how the heck can you protect your dog or young kids from that when there is no antidote?!

I'm mostly concerned about my dog - it's not just the taste 'muesli-bar flavoured' pellets that pose a risk - poisoned possums can travel over 5 kilometers and that's mostly how dogs are being killed. The death of a dog from 1080 is NASTY - I've been reading they have fits, convulsions, bleed from the ears / nose / mouth.

My dog is one of my family and I consder her like other people do their child - I was be distraught if this were to happen. It looks like we've made a bad choice but I can't believe how NZ have their best-kept secret kept from unsuspecting Expats.

Am I the only one who's spotted this? Please people - your thoughts and feedback on 1080.
News to me that 1080 (sodium fluoroacetate) is a "Top 10 weapon in chemical warefare". I don't believe that it is. You would have to go down on your hands and knees and lick it up (i.e., ingest it), thus making it next to useless as a chemical weapon. I suspect you would have to be standing under the dispensing apparatus while it is dispensing to get a lethal dose. Out of solution the compound will be solid (it's a salt). So I am not certain what you are getting at. Is this a troll post?
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:14 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by User Name
News to me that 1080 (sodium fluoroacetate) is a "Top 10 weapon in chemical warefare". I don't believe that it is. You would have to go down on your hands and knees and lick it up (i.e., ingest it), thus making it next to useless as a chemical weapon. I suspect you would have to be standing under the dispensing apparatus while it is dispensing to get a lethal dose. Out of solution the compound will be solid (it's a salt). So I am not certain what you are getting at. Is this a troll post?
I joined the site after Googling 1080 - I was very interested in getting a sensible perspective on what really goes on in New Zealand ... silly me - or so it seems.

Does anyone out there have anything sensible to say? Someone who actually knows what this is? News to the last post - try a little research .....

What: Sodium fluoroacetate is an odorless and tasteless fine white powder, commonly known as Compound 1080. It is one of the most acutely toxic substances known.
How: The pesticide can cause harm to animals and humans when inhaled, absorbed through the skin or ingested. A dose approximately the equivalent to an aspirin tablet can be lethal when ingested by humans.

Effects: The poison, which can cause neurologic and cardiac damage, starves cells of oxygen by interrupting metabolic processes in the body. Symptoms may begin 30 minutes after ingestion which may include numbness, twitching, vomiting and hallucinations, and lead to death within two hours.

Sources: Occupational Medicine, Third Edition
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by tigger33
The pesticide can cause harm to animals and humans when inhaled, absorbed through the skin or ingested. A dose approximately the equivalent to an aspirin tablet can be lethal when ingested by humans.
It's a salt, so out of solution it is a solid. To get a lethal dose would be extremly difficult unless you actually planned to get a lethal dose. CO (carbon monoxide) is far more dangerous given that it is a gas and kills humans far more effectively than 1080, perhaps because CO is a GAS. Your own car presents a far greater potential to kill than 1080. This is a joke - right?

Given the simple molecular structure of 1080 (a modified acetate molecule) it will be broken down by natural cycles in the environment. Some microbes will actually use it as a carbon source, i.e., could live on it. That is, 1080 doesn't fall into the PCB category (hangs around in the environment for too long, microbes have problems breaking PCBs down). Microbes will happily take some carbon from 1080 thus negating its ability to interfere with the TCA/Kreb's cycle.
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 7:58 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by PRinAuckland
Ok people, stop being sarcy, I've read some news reports and got my knickers in a twist. We're reconsidering the move because of this, and because I've read a lot of posts about how dog-unfriendly it is. Serious answers sought please - why have I read news reports that 50 dogs in the Hutt died after one 1080 drop - I've a right to be worried and I've no way of knowing from this side of the world how widespread this stuff is used.
Honestly, I think NZ would be better off if you didn't settle there. Get a life. You are creating a scare over nothing. Does anyone know of someone who died walking near an area with 1080? I very much doubt it, 1080 is very difficult to breath in - solid pellets don't usually fly into your mouth unless you are under the apparatus dispensing them! 1080 is a salt, so out of solution it is a SOLID. In normal use it is NEVER A GAS. So I don't see the problem at all. This is a troll - trying to frighten people over a non-issue. Your own car is far more dangerous than pellets comprising of 1080. Humans would have to intentionally eat the pellets since it is not a gas. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a far bigger risk than 1080, because CO is a gas!

Troll post. Irresponsible post.
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

Originally Posted by User Name
It's a salt, so out of solution it is a solid. To get a lethal dose would be extremly difficult unless you actually planned to get a lethal dose. CO (carbon monoxide) is far more dangerous given that it is a gas and kills humans far more effectively than 1080, perhaps because CO is a GAS. Your own car presents a far greater potential to kill than 1080. This is a joke - right?

Given the simple molecular structure of 1080 (a modified acetate molecule) it will be broken down by natural cycles in the environment. Some microbes will actually use it as a carbon source, i.e., could live on it. That is, 1080 doesn't fall into the PCB category (hangs around in the environment for too long, microbes have problems breaking PCBs down). Microbes will happily take some carbon from 1080 thus negating its ability to interfere with the TCA/Kreb's cycle.
I do hope that someone can help with something constructive about how this policy affects their lives as dog owners & what precautions they take?
Despite what the previous post suggests, I won't be putting it on my chips anytime soon!

U.S. Homeland Security Department Examining Terrorism Potential of Wolf Poison


The U.S. Homeland Security Department is examining the potential use of sodium fluoroacetate, a poison which is used to kill wolves and coyotes in Western states, as a terrorist weapon, the Portland Oregonian reported today (see GSN, Nov. 1).

The department is reviewing the chemical, known as Compound 1080, at the request of Representative Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.). The chemical has no known antidote and one teaspoon could kill as many as 100 people, DeFazio told Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge in a letter last month requesting the review.

Some countries have examined sodium fluoroacetate’s use as a potential chemical weapon, according to scientific journals.

Compound 1080 could be used to poison water supplies, according to the FBI, U.S. Air Force and Canadian Security Intelligence Service

The Homeland Security Department is expected to respond to DeFazio’s request within several weeks, spokeswoman Valerie Smith said (Michael Milstein, The Oregonian, Nov. 3).
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

1080 is dispensed in affected areas as large bait - in that form it is NOT A CHEMICAL WEAPON. For heaven's sake, you are talking about a subject which you really don't understand. An airliner can be used as a weapon, but we know it is a great way to get about, so we don't ban aircraft because some gimps hijacked four to fly into buildings (one crashes in a field in PA). For heaven's sake man, get a grip. The risk to humans posed by pellets of 1080 is zip - a big FAT ZERO. Someone would have to deliberately pick up the pellets and eat them to die from them. Hey, this might be news for you, but humans do walk in front of trains too, but we don't ban trains. The risk posed by pellets containing 1080 is negligible to humans. One would have to deliberately ingest them to suffer harm. Why are you trying to frighten people?

Troll?


Originally Posted by tigger33
I do hope that someone can help with something constructive about how this policy affects their lives as dog owners & what precautions they take?
Despite what the previous post suggests, I won't be putting it on my chips anytime soon!

U.S. Homeland Security Department Examining Terrorism Potential of Wolf Poison


The U.S. Homeland Security Department is examining the potential use of sodium fluoroacetate, a poison which is used to kill wolves and coyotes in Western states, as a terrorist weapon, the Portland Oregonian reported today (see GSN, Nov. 1).

The department is reviewing the chemical, known as Compound 1080, at the request of Representative Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.). The chemical has no known antidote and one teaspoon could kill as many as 100 people, DeFazio told Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge in a letter last month requesting the review.

Some countries have examined sodium fluoroacetate’s use as a potential chemical weapon, according to scientific journals.

Compound 1080 could be used to poison water supplies, according to the FBI, U.S. Air Force and Canadian Security Intelligence Service

The Homeland Security Department is expected to respond to DeFazio’s request within several weeks, spokeswoman Valerie Smith said (Michael Milstein, The Oregonian, Nov. 3).
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Old Feb 13th 2006, 8:16 pm
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Default Re: 1080 Poison - why haven't NZ banned it?!

In addition, 1080 and a million other things can be put into water supplies. You do know that? So many things could be put into water supplies ... so what's your point? First you fire off about 1080 being used in bait ... now you have moved onto water supplies - you are a troll - right? If you are really worried, invest in a domestic reverse osmosis water cooler. Reverse osmosis gets rid of anything much larger than a water molecule - even single Cl- ions can't get through the RO membrane - so the much larger 1080 ion will not get througha RO membrane.

Originally Posted by tigger33
I do hope that someone can help with something constructive about how this policy affects their lives as dog owners & what precautions they take?
Despite what the previous post suggests, I won't be putting it on my chips anytime soon!

U.S. Homeland Security Department Examining Terrorism Potential of Wolf Poison


The U.S. Homeland Security Department is examining the potential use of sodium fluoroacetate, a poison which is used to kill wolves and coyotes in Western states, as a terrorist weapon, the Portland Oregonian reported today (see GSN, Nov. 1).

The department is reviewing the chemical, known as Compound 1080, at the request of Representative Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.). The chemical has no known antidote and one teaspoon could kill as many as 100 people, DeFazio told Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge in a letter last month requesting the review.

Some countries have examined sodium fluoroacetate’s use as a potential chemical weapon, according to scientific journals.

Compound 1080 could be used to poison water supplies, according to the FBI, U.S. Air Force and Canadian Security Intelligence Service

The Homeland Security Department is expected to respond to DeFazio’s request within several weeks, spokeswoman Valerie Smith said (Michael Milstein, The Oregonian, Nov. 3).
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