snowbunny

Paul, is this your neighbour?

Do you see this kind of racism? just curious.

furkew

no me, but i've only been here 19 years.

Flor

Clair, that actitud towards dark skin foreigners you think it might be different living in a big city like The Hague or Amsterdam? Sometimes people in small villages (I don't know how big Almere is) , whatever country you are in, are not as open to different races as people living in the big cities. I've seen that happening also in the UK, and other parts of Europe like Italy and Spain ... Also in the case of Spain for example, they have many crime issues with Moroccans and therefore are not very open to them, but perfectly alright with black/ Asian people ...

Flor

Paul, many thanks for both your responses; really useful. We'll be visiting both The Hague and Amsterdam in May to get a feel for the place and then make a final decision...

Thanks again
-Flor

Krakertjes

i strongly advice to see more not just these 2
ýou can get a very different view if u see more...
noord brabant is very different!! but it's your choice off course!!

furkew

You didn't say where you where looking at moving to. If you have a rough idea, maybe some of us can give some inside info on certsain area's.

It would be my (and anybody else in holland) suggestion to look as close as possible to where you are planning to work. Traffic is not fun, and believe it or not, it's dearer to run a car than in the Uk. Even petrol is more expensive.

The public transport on buses and trams is good, trains reasonable (a bit like the UK)

clair

That's exactly right Flor.

Flor

Hi Paul - we still haven't decided on a specific area, that's why we're starting with a visit to both Amsterdam and The Hague, as we are both city people and we think it will be easier for us to find jobs/ intl. schools for our 3 year old daughter than in the countryside ... we have been before several times in the Netherlands, however will be looking at it again in May through a resident's eyes and not a tourists', which I guess does change the way you see things.... We will possibly also look at Utrecht at a later stage .....

furkew

In the Hague you have the British school in the Netherlands, and in Wassenaar just down the road you have The American school. If your daugther is 3 years old, she would have no problem in a Dutch school either. Kids pick up the language very quickly.

OriginalSunshine

flor - we moved from the Hague in 2003, having lived there for 7 years. it was great to begin with, but it started to grind after 4 years, and eventually we needed for our own sanity to move on.
it is incredibly overcrowded, the public transport went privatised and went from being amazing to crap (albeit still 1000 times better than the UK!). there is a lot of what we call rudeness - being pushed aside in streets for example because you are in the way of someone else walking, no-one opening doors to help someone else - dutch society is dog eat dog. the dutch arent tolerant, they just dont give a **** about anyone else and what they are doing as long as it doesnt intrude on themselves.
the racism was hard as well.... we were there when Pim Fortuyn was murdered - you're ok being a white buitenlander as that is somehow different to being a black buitenlander. to be honest, you & your husband will have no problem, but as your daughter will be of mixed race she will look more "turkish/moroccan" and if you are with her alone you might have problems.
the hague has a big turkish/moroccan "problem" - there were riots around Holland Spoor a few years ago, and crime is quite high & violent in a few regions.
the work environment - yes most people speak english and they use that against you in some situations - a lot of times people assume you cant speak dutch and will openly talk about you in front of you in dutch. saying that a few words of dutch goes a long way in shops etc. we've had the irony though of being told "dont bother with dutch - i speak english so well" and then a few minutes later being berated by someone else for not speaking dutch well enough after X years!
there is also an unspoken but very obvious mafia - "if you aint dutch you aint much".... you will find that you will earn a lower salary and have lower status and slower promotions compared to your equally qualified dutch colleague. my husband got a Master's degree from a top uni in the UK but was told this only counted as an HND in his company because it wasnt as good as a Delft degree! and so got paid at an HND level....

the tax rules are good in the Netherlands as well, and a lot is tax deductible eg 100% of the mortgage interest is tax deductible which meant in our situation the tax office ended up refunding about 1/3 of our mortgage payments!

saying that, food, alchohol, day to day living, rental, petrol etc are a lot cheaper than the SE of England.

and the Hague is an extremely cultural city - there are lots of museums, shows, cinemas (mainstream & art), dance, plays, wonderful restaurants & cafes. it's also remarkable compact as well. and I loved living close to the beach. and you can get to other countries (France, Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg) etc within hours for great long weekend holidays.

any questions, just ask.

stoobee1

If you want a view on NL from an expat's point of view then check out www.expatica.com. There's endless forums (and opinions) in there about the Dutch and living with them...

Batty

Thank you for this post. I lived in Den Haag for 2 years and left in 1995. My husband has Dutch parents and we kept close ties to it until about 3 years ago when my father in law died and my MIL moved back to NZ where they'd lived for 38 years prior to retiring 'home'. I've spent years romanticising The Netherlands because I adored living there but you've just made me remember the downsides that I'd pushed to the dark recesses of my mind

radicalbyte

They are a bit racist here. Hate the turks/moroccans/french. Dislike the belgians. Like the germans/english/scandinavians.

If you try and speak the language, it's really appreciated. The basics aren't that hard either, and classes are available at any univercity.

furkew

They regard the Belgians the same as the British regard the Irish. They like them well enough, but they think they aren't exactly the brightest bunch.

The Dutch do not like the Germans really, they dont like their attitude, and they still havent forgotten about the war.

The French are accepted, because half of the Dutch go to France for the summer hols or skiing in the winter.

MataHari

Who are 'they'?
And since when do 'they' like the Germans...