gelato

I agree snowbunny. Obviously, throughout the world we see the same kinds of arrangements which greatly disadvantage women. However, I was kind of shocked to see that only 10% of Dutch women work full time whether they have young children or not. Not sure of the statistics on Australia or the US (where I lived and worked before moving to Europe) but I'm pretty sure that more than 10% of women work full time there. Probably even here in Italy they do (and Italy is notorious for lack of female advancement unless of course they're a 17 year old showgirl ). I guess from what I saw it is really the norm for women in NL to work part time which, while seems like a real trap for Dutch women and I imagine would greatly impact the view of women, particularly mothers, in the workplace.

katie007

Hi,
I'm a new member but read with interest your comments.

I certainly do not think that you've been inappropriately negative. I feel I am able to criticise the UK (my country) quite openly and see clearly the negatives of this strange little Island.

However, I would add many more negatives to your list regarding the Netherlands. Everyone has their own individual experience of a new country but there are, I am sure, common problems that are helpful to know about when considering a move.

I will gladly discuss further

gelato

Katie - can you elaborate further?

We just got back from a lovely 8 days in the Netherlands. It was such a relief to get out of the Roman heat (it's 35 degrees here today ) and everything was so organised and ran so smoothly compared to Italy. I loved all the biking around and kid-friendly activities. And it's so clean and neat - amazing!

But yeah - the food. The Dutch (generally) just seem completely clueless about it. I won't go into detail but yeah just totally clueless and they seem to eat a ton of artificial convenience foods - but maybe I've just lived in Italy for too long and I've become a food snob?

Harmony1000

I try and support my local greengrocer but yet again I had to return some ginger which had mould growing - the peaches I had to throw away because they had gone rotten, and generally the produce is just old and rotting. The last lot of asparagus also had mould growing at the stem.

It's also very rare to find locally grown produce, until you stop at an organic market which are spotted around the country, but as I work I rarely find time to visit them.

I must say I was shocked when I first came here, also because of the hygiene which is non-existence, taking money with hands and then slicing meat without any washing. But I've now got used to the food here and just have to resign myself to working with terrible food stuff.

The kids are encouraged to eat lots of artificial food, especially sugar. It's everywhere, on the coloured sprinkles which they put on bread, cereals, sweets etc. It may go to explain the high amount of thin people who have heart problems in Holland ....

sheebah

I hope you don't mind me butting in, but to say that the dutch have no idea about food is just silly IMHO, I come from Holland, was born there and lived there for 22 years, I now live in Australia for 31 years, I was in Holland in 2009 visiting my family, and I stayed with my sister, she cooks from scratch every night, rarely do they buy from snackbars, and it was lovely, on the other hand Australia also has lots of food with preservatives, and lots of ready made meals out of the freezers, people are getting fatter and fatter by the day.
I also come across old and rotten food in supermarkets here in Oz, I always have to check the use by date, yoghurts are quite often nearly out of date and they still want full price, I have seen mould on grated cheese here, rotten tomatoes, etc, it's like that everywhere not just in Holland.
I just want to say that these things happen everywhere, not just in holland.

gelato

OK you may have a point - it depends on what you cook at home. My Dutch inlaws happen to eat a ton of complete muck - bread and cheese for lunch every single day or possibly hagelslag and lots of things from packets. Lots of sweets and soda all the time. No fruit or veg. They don't seem to get any joy from food and my Dutch DH says this is normal in small town Holland where he's from.

I've also eaten some extremely expensive very bad food in larger Dutch cities. I really miss the amazing Asian food in Sydney (my family is in Chatswood so you can imagine).

But maybe if you know where to go...

sheebah

I am in Brisbane, so I wouldn't know, we don't eat out much.
The way people eat is up to the individual, it's also laziness I think, we maybe eat takeaway once a week.
When I was young, or younger, lol, my mum always cooked from scratch, no takeaways whatsoever, if we wanted something from the snackbar we had to pay for it, out of our pocket money.
There are so many cold meats available in Holland, why just eat cheese?? I love cheese, but I would not want it every day, my son who was born here in Oz, loved the food there, and he can be fussy.
I don't think you parents in law eat the same thing every day because they have to, or because there is no other choice, they do because they want to, and can't be bothered with anything else.
But it's the same all over the world, we have choices, we can either eat crap every day and get fat and unhealthy, or we can cook healthy stuff, what i'm trying to say is that it's not Hollands nor Australias fault, it's ours!

gelato

We eat out a lot here in Rome - either at our local trattoria (Italian food), pizza or at this fantastic Indian place near us. I also used to eat out a lot in Sydney. There are a lot of cheap and fantastic places in Sydney at least especially if you head out to the suburbs - Dulwich Hill for Vietnamese, Chatswood for Chinese, Cabramatta for more Vietnamese (I love Vietnamese food!)

But maybe that exists in the Netherlands too? I've just heard from various friends who have lived in NL (including Aussie friends who lived in Utrecht for 4 years and a Canadian friend in Den Haag) that inexpensive restaurants are generally really awful in those towns. But there must be a few exceptions.

I guess what I didn't see in NL is good seasonal, local fruit and veggies. But they don't exactly have a ton of land to grow things on I guess. Here in Italy we get fantastic tomatoes, fruit, mushrooms etc. In Sydney we had fruit trees in our backyard and you could get great fruit in season. In the Netherlands when we were just there they were eating out of season (tasted like cardboard) strawberries in August. Strawberries were everywhere but they tasted terrible because strawberry season is in the spring not the summer and the ones they're getting now are from the hothouse.

I admit I'm a bit of a foodie so this is really important to me.

HelenTD

The Netherlands is a major exporter of food, so perhaps the best stuff is getting exported and earning foreign currency. This happens with some Australian foods too.

You might be interested in this article (another Australian connection) http://www.dutchdailynews.com/austra...rs-dutch-food/.

Harmony1000

In my opinion the Dutch do get very offended if anything is criticised about their country, including food.

I am married to a Dutchman, have Dutch inlaws and family and work in a huge multi-national company with people from all over the world so I do tend to get a balanced view, rather than just one or two people’s opinion.

When discussing food in Holland amongst the ex-pats (and also some Dutch colleagues) we are all in agreement – the Dutch just don’t get food.

I’m not saying they all eat in snack bars because that isn’t true. But it makes no difference if you cook from scratch every night if the ingredients aren’t good, which they aren’t. I’ve seen what my mother in law cooks from scratch and some of the lumps of meat I just can’t even identify – mostly covered in an awful artificial red herb stuff (what is that stuff called which they smother in meat in the supermarket)? If you are going to cook from scratch then it has to be super fresh, and I’m sorry my (and many many others) haven’t had this experience. For example, some of the meat in the disgusting supermarket called Albert Heijn I just don’t know what it is – lots of fat, no idea of the cut, all wrapped in cling film. For example you can’t buy a leg of lamb or joint of beef from the supermarket which I find seven shades of weird. I’ve seen dripping, rotting food stuff on the shelves, big empty spaces for weeks where the one brand of bleach has run out and nothing to replace it – filthy, dirty floors and walls. Actual balls of disgusting fluff under shelves. So please, don’t get me started on food in Holland. Occasionally you can be lucky and find something good, but most times it is just awful.

sheebah

Oh, I would love to visit Italy, I have never been but from what I have seen from pictures etc, it looks gorgeous!
I love pizza, I can't resist it, but I bet the pizza in Italy would be the best, but I could be wrong.
Holland as you know is very small, so they may be importing fruit and vegs, I don't know really, I have only been back twice in 31 years, I think the oranges come from Spain, they cannot grow bananas either so they would have to import them too, I haven't had a banana since we had the January floods, because they are $13.99 a kilo, sometimes they are on special for $12.99, haha, good special hey?
Do they sell mangoes in holland??
I love strawberry season here, we get the annual strawberry festival in september, and the ones I have seen in the shop are not to expensive, and they are massive!
I have been to the local Indian restaurant a few times, we quite like that one, we have a couple of Chinese restaurants but I found it all taste the same, and it was a bit greasy, but there really isn't much else around where we live.
Have you tried googling for good restaurants in holland??

sheebah

Of course they get offended, just like Australians get offended if we were to pick on their foods and shops.
I was there in 2009, and I honestly did not see what you described about the filth, by the way, they just done a report on ozzie shops and snackbars, every week a few get closed down, they have found cockroches and dead rats under kitchen benches etc, also in shops like coles and woollies they hardly clean the fridge and freezer areas, so it's every where!
But you know if I would whine like that about australia, they would tell me if you don't like it go home!! I suggest you do the same!!

HelenTD

You've just proved Harmony's point!

We whine a fair bit about food on the Australia thread - you could always join us.

jeffingermany

The Netherlands is definitely no paradise for food lovers. But I think Harmony1000 is exaggerating. I don't recognize those situations at all. Besides, you don't have to shop at Albert Heijn. There are other supermarkets and lots of specialty shops. Especially for stuff like meat and fish that is the best thing to do in the Netherlands.

sheebah

LOL, I think I did too, I was trying to say '' get out if you don't like it''.
I'm tired and ready for bed.

I agree Jeff, there are plenty of shops in Holland to choose from, unlike Australia where we only get 2 main shops to choose from.
Just because one shop is not up to your standard, doesn't mean the rest isn't either! the shops I have been to in 2009 where very clean, everything looked fresh, I just don't like it when the whole country gets a slating because of one experience!!