bricwood

Sorry to be different but I live in Italy but Holland always seemed a great country to me I used to go to Holland every year to visit friends and have been all over Holland many times60s 70s 80s 90s, I always tell people how good the food is there, I have not been back since 1999 but it cant have changed that much, even the Chinese restaurants were much better than England, Amsterdam has nice places too you dont have to eat chips with mayonnaise, I think the Dutch are some of the nicest people too, as for anti German some of the old boys told me what went on in the war, one told me I dont mind the young Germans you cant blame them but I still hate Germans, Only bad things for me were I am not keen on all the red light districts and porn , English get a fantastic welcome in Holland , if I had not moved to Italy Holland would have been my choice

Tessa_K

[QUOTE=ladyice;9087383]Being Dutch with an English partner I want to stick up for my country here a little...

Ive been living in Netherlands since May last year and I have to say, its not all so bad here!!
Yes, Ive found it a bit lonely sometimes, its difficult to get used to the lack of tact thrown around, and I just cannot understand why they dont have any good quality bacon like from home; but it really is a good life here. The Dutch really do know how to look after their people, the kids have more freedom and are happier than those back in England, and there are rivers and canals a plenty, they are experts at al fresco once the sun comes out!

Negatives and positives are up to each individual - what I see are my positives may have no weighting in your life or against your decision to move here or not, but if you dont focus on negatives and instead remember why you are in the Netherlands and what you want from your life here, then you will see that the Netherlands is actually a fabulous place to live.

Tess

Harmony1000

Of course there are always pros and cons to living in another country. It does depend so much on your own personal circumstances and what you want and need from a country.

People with children want a child-friendly environment with good schools, singles want a good nightlife and friendly bars.

It so depends on your age, your circumstances, what country you have travelling from and how willing you are to compromise.

I know some people who are living here that have come from difficult circumstances and countries and they couldn't be happier. On the flip side I know people who have left houses, friends and family behind and are hugely disappointed when they end up living in a tiny, mouldy flat with a tiny bathroom off the kitchen and no space.

One thing I must comment on - pain relief for child birth is virtually unknown - you can book somebody to have an epidural but if they finish their shift at the end of the day you have missed out. Unless you have a medical reason you are expected to give birth at home without meds.

Children do have a better quality of life here than a lot of kids - but you have to be prepared to put up with very bad manners as the Dutch believe in letting their kids run free with no rules and regulations, which means they will not be given any bounderies. Until of course, they are adult and then the rules and regulations kick in big time.

It's also true that most women work part-time and also some men - child care is mega expensive and they try and juggle so one parent can be at home at least one day. This doesn't mean you can't work 5 days a week, but it's just not so common.

Food is a big issue for most expats. I won't go into my experiences, but on average I go home with at least one item out of date or soft or going rotten. It just hasn't been a priority with the Dutch and there is a very limited selection of food which is quite bad quality. It is changing slowly, especially in Amsterdam. You can eat out at some good restaurants but it is very very pricey.

Healthcare is another issue with expats. It's extremely expensive (I pay 135 euro per month and have to pay the first 150 at my own risk) and you have to get past the huisarts (GP) before you can get seen by a specialist. You can be lucky and get a good GP, but prevention isn't something they practice here, so normally conditions have to be cronic before you get refered.

I'm lucky that I have a big circle of expats friends because I work in a multi-national company so I get to listen to a balanced view. Some are young, some older, some are parents and others have had medical issues, so we discuss and talk all the time about our experiences. I also have some Dutch friends, some of which are kind and generous which helped a lot when I first arrived here 8 years ago.

Really you have to work out what your priorities are and again how willing you are to compromise.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you make the correct decision.

Starseed

Well said. As a Brit, I've travelled all over the world, living in Japan 2 years, working as a college lecturer in America, plus backpacking all round S.E. Asia.

Now semi-retired, I visit the Netherlands regularly, and feel more comfortable there than with any other Europeans, despite the fact that I can converse in French, German & Spanish, but not yet Dutch. ( working on it! )

The biggest plus about the Netherlands is the people, pure and simple. I don't care that their supermarkets are a pale shadow of Waitrose & Sainsbury's (which they are), or the weather (I've been there in all seasons), or the food (I don't eat out myself, apart from Thai or Chinese buffets..).

The Dutch have a directness and relaxed approach to life, the wonderful cycling culture, and children and young people rated the happiest/ most socially adjusted in a table of 23 countries.

They are brought up to respect adults, and to respect each other, which in turn makes for good adults in a society where adults call the shots, as they should do. The kids are not out of control, or fearful. They have a great personal freedom from an early age, due to the taming of the car by the bicycle, and you think nothing of stopping your bike & asking a teenage girl for directions. In England "paedophile paranoia" makes it a big no-no, for both parties.

My only criticism of the Dutch is that they don't play international rugby. But then even England isn't perfect.

snowbunny

Hi Harmony,

Which area of the NL do you live in?

As I've mentioned, I'm used to baking in the sun, so the current dark and rainy weather is very offputting. But I do love the culture and I have begun to conquer the language. "huisarts" = house doctor lol.

Harmony1000

Starseed, with all due respect, visiting a country and actually living and working there, is completely different. Do you have Dutch relatives? Have you used the Dutch healthcare system? Do you commute to and from work everyday? Do you shop on a daily basis?

All these things go to make up experiences which you just can't obtain as a visitor.

I, of course, may be completely wrong and you could be living in Holland - please correct me if I am.

snowbunny

I do have Dutch relatives (by marriage and by partnership) so I hear the latest stories about the commute, the weather, the fact that if you do not get to the bakery before noon you might be breadless that night, etc. I have visited in February and that was cold enough for me! Conditions vary a lot though; if I had a house like my mother-in-law's, I'd be fine; but that is in the very south of the country.

I cannot move for another seven years (responsibilities in the US) and will have to re-evaluate then anyway.

Harmony1000

Hi Snowbunny,

I live in Amstelveen, moved here a few years ago after living in Amsterdam for 6 years.

Holland does get the sun, of course and we do see some heatwaves in the summer. It all depends on your expectations and how much you like the sun. Some years we didn't really have a summer, and others were hot and sunny for weeks.

If you love the culture then I urge you to come and try the country out for yourself - but as always visiting, even for months, is completely different to living in a country.

I am very lucky I get to go back to the UK frequently, so can visit friends and family and most importantly for me (although I realise not for everyone) to shop as clothes and household goods are very expensive here. I also bring back stuff which I can't buy in Holland and also bring pain meds back as you can only really buy asprin/panadol over the counter and it saves having to go to the huisarts.

Harmony1000

Again, with all due respect, my male relatives in the UK wouldn't hesitate to ask a teenage girl for directions, if necessary, so it isn't really a big no-no. I doubt they would even consider your concern if they were really lost and needed some direction.

Harmony1000

Well I hope you get to realise your dream and come to live in Holland. Of course there are some lovely houses and outside of Amsterdam it's possible to purchase a house with a garden, but unfortunately unless you have mega bucks, not in Amsterdam!

I'm only really speaking from the point of view of somebody who has lived and worked in Amsterdam, so of course my experiences are going to be different to somebody living in a small village, where I'm sure they serve bread all day long.

I wish you all the very best when you move to Holland - I'm sure you will enjoy living here.

gelato

As the person who started this thread - of course I agree with everyone that no where is perfect and everyone needs to weigh the pros and cons of moving to a foreign land for him/herself. I hated Italy when I first moved here but now 6 years on I really love certain things about life here (food, attitude to children, cheap daycare, the beauty of Rome, the Italian countryside). But I'm still aware of things I hated when I moved here which will mean that we have to move away eventually (lack of opportunities for young people, corruption, bureaucracy, menefreghismo, the family, clientilism, lack of civic sense, the high school and university system).

For me it really comes down to 'can I deal with rain all the time?' I've never lived in a rainy climate and I have no idea how I would react. I have noticed though that I'm generally in a better mood when it's sunny outside than when it's raining. On the other hand, here in Italy and also in my native Australia you have to deal with intense heat in the summer (it's often 35-40 degrees for weeks at a time here in Rome) and that's no fun either. The lack of good food would also be a problem for me but maybe if we pay more we could find decent fruit and veg. I also love to cook so we could eat at home.

I do love the biking everywhere kind of lifestyle and I love how organised everything is in Holland compared to Italy. Buses and trains run on time, universities and schools seem to have their act together too and people have the same civil sense that they have in Australia but not here in Rome unfortunately.

furkew

[QUOTE=Starseed;9164650
My only criticism of the Dutch is that they don't play international rugby. But then even England isn't perfect. [/QUOTE]

They do play international rugby (you mean Union i'm assuming) and I have played against them with a dutch county team a number of years ago.

It was a practise match leading up to a match against Poland I believe. The district team only turned up with 13 players (had to be filled with local players from Sassenheim where the match was held) and the dutch team only just managed to field a team.

They also did play England many years ago at Huddersfield. England fielded a B team on the day, and the referee actually spoke the the english team in the changing rooms before the match to take it easy. They won 130-0 (or something like that)

Not quite the same caliber as the international teams that we know, and unfortunately they lack a lot of the mentality we know for regular training & techniques.

Starseed

I never mentioned cricket. Apparently they beat an England team at cricket a couple of years back.

extexan68

As i write this it is a dreary rainy Saturday! I agree dreary days are awful but some people make it sound like it is only dreary and it certainly is not!!!
What I love about living here is when the sun is out it is so beatiful and everyone gets out and enjoys it!!! And it isn;t so hot that you have to hide from the sun either.

According to statistics of cities in Europe:

Rome ranks #4 as Hottest, #6 as wettest(this is avg how much falls not days of)
#2 as foggiest and amount of thunderstorms, #10 most variety.

Amsterdam ranks #1 humidity, #5 most variety, #9 as hottest but also as coldest, 4 as wettest (just 2 above Rome) # 7 with thunderstorms and # 5 as rainiest.

hope thishelps.

Family S

I'm seriously writing the book.

If you have gifted kids, please go to an other country!!
Schools are really not as good as they say!!
A lot of kids get a "disease stamp" so the school can get more money.
Sometimes even with medication the kids don't need!!!
There are even family's who move to Belgium because they want to home-school because of the quality of the schools, but that's illegal in the Netherlands. If you home-school your kids anyway, the judge can even take your kids away from you!!