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Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Old May 18th 2010, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Originally Posted by gelato
Just wondering what you mean by this?

Anyway we always go to the south of the Netherlands (Brabant) when we go there to visit my husband's rellies as that's where he's from. It's pretty ugly to be honest and very crowded. Houses and/or industry everywhere and they live in the country (although as an Australian I would not consider where they live to be the country - it's like one big suburb!) Maybe we should explore the North next time we go there if it's more beautiful.

I guess I think about Australia differently since my family is there. I think of Europe as being really far away (from Australia). But it is fun living in Europe as you can hop from country to country on cheapo airlines so easily.
Well, they have their snack shops with really tasty food, but I wouldn't eat it for dinner; it's something I'd eat if I'm out and about and looking for a quick snack or a small lunch. There are some shops that make really good pizza bread and sandwiches (I love cheese!). Bakery are fantastic there as well!
There are some really good restaurants, as you can find all sorts from different cultures. Dutch culture (including food) has really been influenced by other cultures. If you enjoy cooking, you can have some very lovely meals at home.

I can see where you're coming from being from Australia. An Aussie friend of mine in Ireland feels the same.

If you're interested, for a laugh and for some more insight, you can read the Xenophobes Guide to the Dutch. My partner loves it. They have these books for many countries, and it's a good read. Pretty accurate from what I've been told, plus a good laugh.
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Old May 24th 2010, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Hey there.

Negatives of living in the Netherlands.... hmm. I've lived here for 3 years now having moved over from the Uk and the major thing is the cost of living. Absolutely! My rule of thumb is.... take the british price, then multiply it by about 3 (possibly 2.5 in some things).

I spent 3 months in Oz up in Brisbane, and life there was completely different to here. For example... to go out here, with your partner you're looking at almost 100euros for 2x 5 drinks each (eg a pint = 5euro.. short and mixer.. more), and 2xMeal out at a restaurant.

House prices... Astronomical. We have a 70m squared property which is basically a small flat, in a block of flats, and that costs e150,000. (223,500AuD)The same sized similar located property in the uk wolverhampton is valued at 55,000pounds (about 62,000e / AuD92,000).

The language... is an issue. Yes most people speak English here and it is survivable here without Dutch, but I would say it means you miss out on lots, and paranoia can set in easily so that, if people who've been talking in English, switch to Dutch you WILL end up thinking they're done it specifically in order to exclude you from the conversation. lol.

The Netherlands is a country where it appears to me, no-one questions anything told to them by authority and people follow rules absently. An example of this is simply crossing a road. I regularly see people pressing the button on a road crossing and then standing there waiting for the flashing man to appear, in order to tell them to cross, when, the road is completely deserted! 2 mins of no traffic, on a small crossroads where all directions are viewable, and still they wait.

If you're a social person, again the costs of going out are crazy. I used to run bars in the Uk, and as such met maybe 600 people a week. Over here, I can often see only 10-25 people a week to interact with (inc shop people/cashiers!!) because, I used to be able to afford to go out 3 times a week, now it's more once every 2-3 weeks.

And... not forgetting (again finance orientated) a base incometax rate of 33% (uk is at 21%ish making this ) payable on eveything you earn (compared to Oz's 15% after $6000earned), so for example if you earn $26000 a year in Oz you pay $3000 income tax... whereas here you'd pay $8600!! Also... health insurance is compulsory and expensive!

Food i don't really have an issue with. Meat and 3 veg is meat and 3 veg anywhere! lol There is very little space here in Holland though compared to Oz. Only the Uk has more people per square mile (and that only changed in the last couple of years).

To be honest, were it not for my wife having family here I would be looking to leave. It is, in my opinion, just not financially viable to be here. even Wikipedia in one of its rarer accurate moments, states "normal Dutch income tax rates are so high that it is not financially rewarding to work in the Netherlands.". It's not the country, it's not the people. It's purely a monetary situation. But, if I were to sit here and not mention that to you, and not try and present quite how this impacts every part of your life, then I'd be basically allowing you to do what I did.... move here with no idea of these issues. That would be unfair of me.

I hope this helps
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Old May 25th 2010, 10:03 am
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Thank you! This is really helpful.

It sounds like the Netherlands really is the exact opposite of where we live now - Rome. Here cars drive right through red lights almost running over pedestrians. I see kids in cars without car seats all the time. Can't imagine anyone waiting obediently at an empty intersection if they have a red light.

The taxes are INSANE here too. Everyone who can cheats like mad though (I don't though as I dont work for myself). They're even higher than in the Netherlands from what you wrote. And we get a lot less for them.

I can't stand blind obedience to authority either and I have seen a bit of that in NL. Like the whole thing with denying women pain meds because supposedly it will interfere with bonding. Why aren't women questioning their doctors when they say this???

I guess the big negative of Australia is the distance you have to travel to get there. But we're really into things like eating out and food so the expense of eating out in NL could be really bad for us. I think life might be better for our 2 year old in Australia too...

My husband actually really loves travelling in Asia so I think if we move to Australia we could easily travel there rather than always trekking to Europe. Anyway, lots to think about...
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Old Jun 17th 2010, 4:55 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Hi, I am late on this thread but here are my 2 cents worth.
We lived in Holland for five years, my husband was on loan from his firm here in Germany. The climate was miserable (but is here in Bavaria right now), but the following negative and positive points might help:
Negative:
If you like walking, Holland is hopeless. We love mountains and you can't get it flatter than Holland, they dont go in for paths in South Holland.
The food was terrible in restaurants. We only found 2 restaurants worth going to and both were very expensive. If you like Indonesian food you might enjoy those restaurants, but once you have been to one the novelty is gone. Bread all tastes the same,cotton wool or cotton wool with brown bits in. I used to make my own. If you don't like horse meat then watch out in the shops, its hard to tell the difference by looking at it, particularly the cold meats. My worst experience was buying an Olie Bollen from a stall on the beach, I was told it was a ball of batter stuffed with apple. On biting in to it my mouth was filled with apple flavoured fat. I have nightmares to this day!

You can spend five minutes sitting at traffic lights, each direction goes separately and just when you think its your lanes turn, they all go to red for the pedestrians. Safe for pedestrians of course.

We disliked the way the Dutch treated Germans. It is wrong to teach young people to hate a race.

Positive things:
There are some very pretty towns and villages, and the flower fields are beautiful in the spring.

The coast has miles of sandy beaches.

Our visitors loved the pancake houses, you can get savory and sweet ones.

We found the locals very friendly, unless you are German.

The children we knew LOVED going to school.

If you like boats, the waterways are great.


Anyway, hope that gives you an idea.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 9:26 am
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

I'm sorry that the Dutch treated you badly because of your nationality, notathome. That is shameful. FWIW my Dutch husband runs a B&B here in Rome and we get tons of German tourists. Husband loves the Germans as they are usually really nice, friendly and easygoing. Also he speaks very good German so he enjoys practicing with German guests. In husband's opinion the Germans and Dutch have very similar cultures (OK so maybe German food is better!)

The bad food does make me hesitate as I'm a bit of a foodie and my experience of food in NL is pretty much like you describe. They seem to have no pride in their own food and lots of foods from packets and a lack of enjoyment of food. I really freaked out (but kept my mouth shut) once when I was in Holland and friends served us 'spaghetti bolognese' (and I realise I shouldn't be snobby about Italian food just because I've lived in Italy for 5 years) and it contained both a packet of powdered soup mix AND canned diced pineapple. It reminded me of how Australians (I've been told) used to eat in the 50s.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 11:02 am
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Hi Gelato. Just to make things straight, I am not German, but a lot of colleagues were. Police friends of ours (Dutch police) used to tell us that they watched out for German cars, in order to book them if they could. It stems partly from world war 2 and partly out of jealousy, as the Germans 'invade' Holland in the summer and obviously have more money than many locals. Our German neighbours hated May, when the Dutch celebrate freedom after the war.
These same Dutch friends were hobby cooks and excellent at cooking, but restaurants are hopeless. There used to be a wonderful fish restaurant in a harbour near the Hague, and one good restaurant in Leiden.
We made a point of learning Dutch and made many Dutch friends during our five years. There are some really beautiful places, but if i had to live in Holland I would choose the area near the German border, lots of walking areas there.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 2:06 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Sounds like opening a decent, not to expensive restaurant could be a good business idea then! Too bad we have no experience in that area.

That seems odd and very xenophobic that the Dutch would still be angry at the Germans 60+ yrs after the war. I've spent some time in Poland and they weren't so narrow minded. My Polish friends said 'hey most Germans weren't even born during WWII'. The French seem ok with the Germans too (I have several French friends who have lived in Germany and vice versa) and they were also occupied during WWII. Strange.

If you like 'walking' and getting out into nature you'd love Australia. Here in Europe there's not much nature left.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 4:01 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Gelato, we have just had visitors from near Sydney and they wouldn't live anywhere else. They say the climate is beautiful. We also have friends in Brisbane, but it is far too hot there for us. We are retired now so the whole world is open to us, so we base ourselves in Bavaria, Germany, where we have easy travel to the Alps, Italy, France and most other areas of Europe.
Why do you wish to leave Italy? I would love to live in Tuscanny , particularly Cinque Terra.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 4:39 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Just believe me when I tell you that there's a lot more to living in Italy (especially if you're working like me) than beautiful views and glasses of chianti. Being a tourist here and living/working here are two different things. I won't try to explain as you'd need to be Italian or someone who has lived here to get it.
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Old Jun 19th 2010, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

So far I have not troubled to post here, but some things are just getting a bit blown out of proportion.
It is so erroneous to state that the Dutch are teaching their children to hate any race or that they are even xenophobic. You will find prejudice all over the world.
Say the food is not very good is quite astounding too. Yes you can purchase tinned food and packets all over the world. I ask do eat gourmet meals every day?

Gelato, maybe after reading these postings you should not live in The Netherlands you never know what will happen with all of these depressing people living there.

Last edited by Casa Santo Estevo; Jun 19th 2010 at 4:57 pm.
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Old Jun 20th 2010, 6:51 am
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Casa - in this thread I asked for people who've lived in NL to give me their biased, opinionated, off the cuff OPINIONS of living in NL. I laid my half boiled, probably completely unfair, first impressions (just from visiting NL, having a Dutch husband and knowing my inlaws) on the table too. I realise that you cannot make generalisations which are always true about any country or any nationality. Just as you can find efficient Italians, you can find great, inexpensive restaurants in the Netherlands I'm sure.

BTW casa, what horse do you have in this race? From your signature you appear to live in Spain. And if you once lived in NL why did you chose to move to Spain?
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Old Jun 20th 2010, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Originally Posted by gelato
Casa - in this thread I asked for people who've lived in NL to give me their biased, opinionated, off the cuff OPINIONS of living in NL. I laid my half boiled, probably completely unfair, first impressions (just from visiting NL, having a Dutch husband and knowing my inlaws) on the table too. I realise that you cannot make generalisations which are always true about any country or any nationality. Just as you can find efficient Italians, you can find great, inexpensive restaurants in the Netherlands I'm sure.

BTW casa, what horse do you have in this race? From your signature you appear to live in Spain. And if you once lived in NL why did you chose to move to Spain?

The answer to the last question is private and absolutely not one to post on a open forum for all the world to see...One of us is Dutch so we BOTH know about life in The Netherlands very well. It is not the picture being painted by the descriptions given above.
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Old Jun 20th 2010, 3:34 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

CasaSE, I also said that we have many Dutch friends. It is only the Germans who are treated badly, and even then they don't always realise it!. Of course there are exceptions. Gelato asked for my opinion and I gave it. I also said that some Dutch are gourmet cooks. If one wants to eat gourmet food in restaurants then one has to pay a huge sum. I am talking about the coastal region of Holland from Amsterdam to Rotterdam and Utrecht etc. The eastern region towards the German border is different.
No we dont eat gourmet food every day but rarely eat rubbish. I introduced our Dutch neighbour to quite a few different foods, including turkey, also avocados. She cooked us a good Dutch dish of pea soup (shnert, also hutzpott) home made it was delicious.
The trend now seems to be to eat in 'motorway cafes', where one is presented with a big dish of mixed vegetables all tasting of cinnamon. Why do people want to eat round carrots?
I also mentioned that Holland has some beautiful places, a photographers and artists dream.

So should I have pretended and have said that Holland has a wonderful climate and that the food is delicious?
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Old Jun 21st 2010, 10:25 am
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Originally Posted by notathome
So should I have pretended and have said that Holland has a wonderful climate and that the food is delicious?
I guess so! In fact, personal opinions should be banned from this board.

This is why, although I sometimes read the Australia board on here, I would NEVER attack someone on that board who expressed a negative view of Australia no matter how much I might disagree with that view.
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Old Jun 21st 2010, 2:04 pm
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Default Re: Negatives of living in the Netherlands?

Maybe you should go back to the first response which was about heating, and includes the following “there is a basic level of freedom” The same goes for this forum too. I have never attacked anyone, like you I express my opinion that the views here are at odds with how the wife and I think about The Netherlands, there is an awful lot of negativity. Even you admit in post 5 your 1st post was negative (the title too is about negativity).
Whilst you asked a lot of questions in your first post you did not question one person any further, for some reason you accept at face value what they have all said. However without rationale you have pounced on me and the observations I made about two postings saying the Dutch are xenophobic and teach their children to hate the Germans. You then went on to ask quite personal questions.
But if you feel attacked by my opinions, then so be it. I have a clear conscience about what I have written.
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