Basilito01

Gelato do you mean living costs in Italy or in Holland? i work with several Italian expats who tell me the cost of living in Italy is less (depending where you are of course) but compared to salaries as well, Italy if you get a good salary is much more affordable.
Rent here is high, taxes are very high, and eating out/food is very high. The only place to get cheap groceries is at budget places like Aldi or Lidl and some of the stuff there looks very sad, you won't want to go near it. Especially as an Aussie (also from Sydney) and after you've been in Italy with great food.

gelato

I meant that living costs are lower in the Netherlands then in Italy (Rome) where we live. I base that on comparing rents and the cost of buying an apartment. Rents are lower in Amsterdam than Rome for equivalent areas. Food seems to be slightly cheaper in Italy though and eating out a lot cheaper.

Where are your Italian friends from? Maybe they come from somewhere other than Rome and Milan -where rents and living costs are crazy. I don't think it's fair to compare a smaller city or town with a larger one.

Salaries in Italy are also a lot lower than in the Netherlands and taxes very high here. Here in Rome I have several university educated friends in their 30s making 1000 euros a month for full time professional work. A full time experienced engineer would consider him/herself lucky to make 1500 a month. Full time experienced nursees make 1200/month. And rents are around 1500 a month for a 2 bedroom in a central but quite grungy area of Rome. So no wonder everyone lives with their parents well into their 30s!

In the Netherlands nearly all the women I know work part time and they seem to make ends meet and they don't seem to feel the need to work FT to have a decent lifestyle. I don't know anyone who works part time here!

Thanks Basilito though - I just don't 'get' the Dutch sometimes when I'm there. For example, I really enjoy eating good food but the Dutch (generally) don't seem to care that much about food. My Dutch husband tells me that for his parents' generation in small town Holland food is seen a fuel only not a source of pleasure or a tradition to be proud of. I just don't get it.

Basilito01

I did hear that Rome is expensive! my friends are from Milan and Turin, wow the rent sounds about the same. For a very nice two bedroom apartment in a nice area of Amsterdam you'll be paying about 2500+ a month. we paid 1500 a month for a small one bedroom in a grungy yet trendy area in Amsterdam, and that's cheap.
The wages are crazy low in Rome, that's awful. The wages here are higher but taxes are crippling. I pay over 40% income, and my partner 50% , also there's a tax on everything , garbage, water, canals, you name it.
Going out for foor is ridiculously expensive. Groceries, were much cheaper in Italy and better, from my experience in Milan a few weeks ago.
You can get cheap groceries here from Aldi and Lidl but the quality of what you get is questionable.

jtrade

Hi, gelato,

I found this thread and in fact this entire forum whilst searching for something completely different, but as a Scot living in a beautiful area just outside Amsterdam who previously lived for 7 years in Italy (Santa Margherita Ligure), I'd like to express my 2 cents worth !

Firstly, as several posters have said, in the end it's an individual thing : my German wife (the reason I moved here) has lived here for 20 years and loves Amsterdam and the open society of the Dutch. Amsterdam is certainly a beautiful city. I also understand that a parent might want to bring up children in their home country. My experience of the school system has been mostly positive and there are some good restaurants, although my favourites are expensive (like de Kas in Amsterdam).

If I was Dutch reading the comments of many expats about The Netherlands on this thread, I'd say "Go somewhere else then !" - it would be an understable and perfectly reasonable response.

BUT.... although I have some very dear Dutch friends, I can't stand the Dutch - & therefore their flat as a pancake country - as a whole. I used to think they were the rudest bunch of cloggies I had ever come across, but I now realise what in other countries are simple good manners are just not part of Dutch culture, apart perhaps from the better educated, more international crowd. It's not about being direct - Americans are direct & I like them - it's about being blunt to the point of rudeness without any awareness of it at all. You find it everywhere as others have mentioned - shops, cafes, on the roads & in the healthcare system. They are a dour and tight-fisted people (I know, I know... coming from a Scot, that's a bit cheeky... but ironically it was an Italian friend of mine who quoted the saying - in the context of being tight with one's money "It takes three Scots to equal one Dutchman" !). Would you want your children to grow up in this kind of environment ?

So I wouldn't worry about the cost of food, housing etc etc - you can find good food in The Netherlands if you try and you need never set foot in a Febo and eat a dreaded frikandel (and mayonnaise with fries is actually not such a bad idea). It's just that you will never be able to easily find food to enjoy in the way you might in Italy or France. Likewise, finding a nice home in which to live usually takes time wherever you go - just remember that Dutch cities tend to have very small accommodation. And if you're a happy, positive person, you can be happy almost anywhere. None of this is the point : the issue is about choosing - if you are practically able to choose, a great privilege in itself - a healthy, beautiful environment in which to live this precious life. In this regard, The Netherlands cannot - for me - compare with Italy or Australia ('nearly moved to Oz 10 years back). Not even in the same ballpark; actually not in any ballpark as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, unlike Basilito01, I would not recommend London (lived and worked there for years), except for a single person - MUCH more expensive than Amsterdam (to live well) and it's a city that is best enjoyed if you have a high family income (& can afford private schools).... but I'm drifting off-topic...

Edit : From your first post in this thread : "Is dutch weather always that drizzly and grey?" Amsterdam is the only place I've lived (and I've lived in 6 countries) which is wetter and windier than London. That's official !

Lollyh68

I have only just joined and stumbled across this post and wanted to add my view. I am from the UK and my partner is a Dutch fireman, it was always our intention for him to work in the UK as a fireman but this has proved harder than we imagined. So for the last 5 years we have been comutting between the 2 countries. Finally fed up with this situation I have made the decision that I will move there and we are hoping to put this in place within the next year. So this is my view on life in Holland .....
1) Food - I am a real foodie and I also love to cook. I have found the quality of restuarants to generally be excellent. We are based in Den Haag and I find it very international and of a good standard. I also enjoy shopping at a local market on a Saturday for fresh produce.I think it's a bit of a cliche to say the Dutch know nothing about food. I think for many years (same as the UK) their diet consisted of meat and 2 veg, bread and cheese ..... stoggy and a bit dull but again this is a sweeping statement and doesn't apply to all. But I do see that some Dutch people are of the ilk of 'quantity not quality' but that can be said of some English people to. I would rather eat one course of good quality food that you may pay more for than 'all you can eat' at an inferior restuarant but like anything this is up to the individual.
2) The Dutch - Yes they can be very blunt and direct but I like this as if they like you they are open, friendly and genuine and if they don't at least you know!
3) Quality of life - I find the Dutch have a good work/life balance. I also like their attitude to getting outside very refreshing. They have the same shocking weather we have in the UK but even on a dry cold day the Dutch will be sitting outside on a terrace eating, drinking and generally having a gezellig time! I also liked that my partners Grandmother still biked right up to her mid eighties rather than the life most OAP have in the UK of sitting in a chair waiting to die.
These are a few of the things I like and why I am intending on making Holland my home. But life is what you make it and you can even be unhappy in paradise. I am in recruitment and am currently doing a lot of work in Australia and yes the weather and life style is amazing but we are getting quite a bit of resistance from people that say yes it's lovely but it's so far from anywhere. Whereas Europe (Holland) is crowded but you are surrounded by culture and different nationalities right on your doorstep , we often drive between UK and Holland and you can do that in 5/6 hours door to door. So there are pros and cons with both I wish you well in deciding but at the end of the day it's probably where and with who you will be happiest with.