Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Moving back or to the UK
Reload this Page >

Why NHS service is so bad?

Why NHS service is so bad?

Old Apr 12th 2003, 10:03 pm
  #16  
BE Enthusiast
 
scoobydooathome's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom.
Posts: 503
scoobydooathome is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Why NHS service is so bad?

Originally posted by pommiesheila
Not wishing to put too fine a point on it - the NHS is funded by taxation - if you`ve only been in the UK for 8 months, just how much treatment do you reckon you`ve paid for???
Hmmmmm very interesting point there Sheila,
scoobydooathome is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 3:38 am
  #17  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Taffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I agree with you Emm. The NHS has its problems but its still there thank goodness. Here in Florida, one of our local hospitals has just shut down their maternity wing...because it wasn't making enough profit! Healthcare is big business in the US, and I can't see that the patient is better off for it. In fact, over 50% of Americans can't afford health insurance, and with the government cuts in some programmes which funded lifesaving drugs for impoverished people etc people are literally dying because they don't have any money.
Paying for health doesn't cut out human error either- there are just as many mistakes made here as in UK, if not more, because of the higher population. Anybody who thinks otherwise, take a look at the medical malpractice lawsuits here. Doctors in FL are having to pay such high insurance premiums against malpractice that many are leaving the State- they can't afford $70,000 a year in insurance.
I laugh when I hear people moaning about the NHS- they haven't a clue what it would be like without it.
Taffyles is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 5:39 am
  #18  
Emm
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 346
Emm is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Originally posted by Taffyles
I agree with you Emm. The NHS has its problems but its still there thank goodness. Here in Florida, one of our local hospitals has just shut down their maternity wing...because it wasn't making enough profit! Healthcare is big business in the US, and I can't see that the patient is better off for it. In fact, over 50% of Americans can't afford health insurance, and with the government cuts in some programmes which funded lifesaving drugs for impoverished people etc people are literally dying because they don't have any money.
Paying for health doesn't cut out human error either- there are just as many mistakes made here as in UK, if not more, because of the higher population. Anybody who thinks otherwise, take a look at the medical malpractice lawsuits here. Doctors in FL are having to pay such high insurance premiums against malpractice that many are leaving the State- they can't afford $70,000 a year in insurance.
I laugh when I hear people moaning about the NHS- they haven't a clue what it would be like without it.
Absolutely, you don't know what you have until you don't have it anymore.

A friend of mine just went to the doctors and got a prescription for a steroid inhaler as she has an allergy to her childrens ginea pigs and this has caused a mild form of asthma.

It cost her 350 SEK, which translates to £26.59. Somehow £6.30 for a prescription doesn't seem like a bad deal anymore...
Emm is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 9:20 am
  #19  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Taffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond repute
Default

My son cashed a prescription last night for a course of antibiotics $146...that's almost 100 pounds. He has good health insurance, so the visit to the doctor only cost him $15, but it doesn't cover the prescriptions.
A friend of mine recently had a simple heart arrythmia (sp?), she had tests which involved a 12 hour stay in hospital- the bill $35,000- thankfully she was covered for most of it with her insurance, she only has to pay $1000 of it. That's not including her prescriptions though- those will cost her over $200 a month from now on. She actually works in the same hospital, you'd think they'd get it free, at least. I know a lot of people here who have huge medical bill debts hanging over their heads.
Taffyles is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 9:32 am
  #20  
Rock Goddess
 
Rockgurl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 1,429
Rockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond repute
Thumbs down Privatise it!

With respect, I speak as an NHS employee. I have worked in the NHS for 13 years, and once you experience the absolute chaos that is the NHS you would understand the need for privatisation. Wages are 50% lower than they should be for the skills and experience offered, and watching patients die because of lack of funds, staff and input is heart-wrenching. Infection is rife because of un-supervised "cleaners" who push around dirty mops and don't use proper disinfectant because it's too expensive. Every single day of my working life there is always something that we run out of or don't have in stock. Yesterday I couldn't do a patients dressings because we had no gauze. Imagine...an intensive care unit that doesn't have any gauze! Staff are leaving left, right and centre because of appallingly low morale and nothing is done to aid staff retention. We work 13-hour shifts...completely exhausted every day. Once a month I work 7 night shifts in a row...all 13 hours long. That's a 90-hour week, of an intense, difficult, stressful and emotionally demanding job. Most of the equipment is outdated and doesn't work properly. What is the sense in this? What is the advantage to this? None! Privatise it...pour money in to it, but do something, because things have got so bad it is only a matter of time before the whole service implodes. I cannot wait until I get to the States, to be paid properly and work in a modern, clean. up-to-date environment. Say what you like about the private healthcare, but it works! There is no way I would go into hospital as a patient in England, and I dread the day any relative of mine has to. You get what you pay for!
Rockgurl is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 10:13 am
  #21  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Taffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond repute
Default

No you don't get what you pay for, sorry I know too many people here who have had bad treatment. The President of my husband's company is a millionaire- she was so incensed at the way her mother was treated in the biggest hospital here, that she literally had to pin the doc to the wall to get his attention - she grabbed him by his lapels and dragged him in to see her mother- aged 76, who had been left unattended in severe pain in a corridor overnight. She's suing.
You'll probably have to account for every single piece of gauze you use - and work as long hours (desperate shortage of nurses, especially in Florida). 12 hour shifts are pretty standard, with only half an hour lunch break which probably won't be paid. Wages are low in Florida, but a registered nurse starts out at about $26 an hour which isn't too bad, but aint gonna make you rich. Pretty good benefits although health won't be free, you'll have to pay for h.insurance and co-pay. Pension scheme is alright - you have to work for 5 years to get vested. You have to work for 30 years to keep your health insurance when you retire. The hospitals look nicer- except ER, especially on a Saturday night. Chairs are more comfy etc and they have televisions in the waiting rooms and so on.
Our family practice Doctor was British, and she was terrific, but she became disillusioned and returned to UK and the NHS last year. We have plenty of Brit nurses who come out to Sara Memorial and the Doctors hospital here, and a lot of them go back too. So don't build your hopes too high and then you won't be disappointed. I don't know where in the US you are going but Good luck to you- I really hope it is everything you are expecting it to be. From the patients perspective, I hear the same darn complaints here that I used to hear about the NHS.
Taffyles is offline  
Old Apr 22nd 2003, 12:12 pm
  #22  
Rock Goddess
 
Rockgurl's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Connecticut USA
Posts: 1,429
Rockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond reputeRockgurl has a reputation beyond repute
Default

<You'll probably have to account for every single piece of gauze you use> - At least I'll actually be able to have gauze!

<and work as long hours> - I don't already?

<desperate shortage of nurses, especially in Florida> - worse in the UK which is why every single nurse in my unit except me is from the Phillipines, Africa or China.

<12 hour shifts are pretty standard> - Yes but at least I'll only have to do 3 of them in a row, not 7 like I do now.

<with only half an hour lunch break which probably won't be paid> - Lucky if you get that here.

<Wages are low in Florida, but a registered nurse starts out at about $26 an hour > - That's about $10 more an hour than here.

<So don't build your hopes too high and then you won't be disappointed. I don't know where in the US you are going but Good luck to you> - I am going to Connecticut. My partner is American and works in a Pediatric ICU so I am very familiar with the US healthcare system and have been to that hospital many times. It's a palace compared to where I work. I know exactly what to expect and I can't wait. I have a friend in ICU in New York who earns $90,000 a year, and another friend in CT who works in a Neonatal ICU and earns $75,000 a year. With my experience and skills I'll have no trouble.
Rockgurl is offline  
Old Apr 23rd 2003, 9:31 am
  #23  
Wurzel turned redneck
 
nxylas's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Columbia, SC (was Bristol, Wessex)
Posts: 363
nxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of lightnxylas is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Privatise it!

Originally posted by Rockgurl
Infection is rife because of un-supervised "cleaners" who push around dirty mops and don't use proper disinfectant because it's too expensive.
And are your cleaning services contracted out to the private sector, by any chance?
nxylas is offline  
Old Apr 23rd 2003, 10:36 am
  #24  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Taffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond reputeTaffyles has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Originally posted by Rockgurl
<You'll probably have to account for every single piece of gauze you use> - At least I'll actually be able to have gauze!

And at least the nurses won't be able to take any home with them when they have to account for it- and don't say they don't help themselves cos I know they do.

<and work as long hours> - I don't already?

You were the one complaining about 12 hour shifts- its the same here- actually 14 hours sometimes if the hospital has to phone round to find someone to take over from you.

<desperate shortage of nurses, especially in Florida> - worse in the UK which is why every single nurse in my unit except me is from the Phillipines, Africa or China.

And where are British nurses?? Emigrating?.

<12 hour shifts are pretty standard> - Yes but at least I'll only have to do 3 of them in a row, not 7 like I do now.

Try doing 10. You can get away with your basic 36 hour, paid for 40 hour, week in Connecticut maybe, I don't know, certainly not in FL, they call nurses in all the time on their days off.

<with only half an hour lunch break which probably won't be paid> - Lucky if you get that here.

Really?

<Wages are low in Florida, but a registered nurse starts out at about $26 an hour > - That's about $10 more an hour than here.

Well its not $10 more than the nurses I know in Scotland, Essex and Wales- they get allowances and increments on top of their basic, night allowance etc.

<So don't build your hopes too high and then you won't be disappointed. I don't know where in the US you are going but Good luck to you> - I am going to Connecticut. My partner is American and works in a Pediatric ICU so I am very familiar with the US healthcare system and have been to that hospital many times. It's a palace compared to where I work. I know exactly what to expect and I can't wait. I have a friend in ICU in New York who earns $90,000 a year, and another friend in CT who works in a Neonatal ICU and earns $75,000 a year. With my experience and skills I'll have no trouble.

You can earn better wages than that in other States (90 thou is not a good wage for New York as far as I'm concerned). A friend of mine in DC earns $145,000 a year - she's a top flight triage- and she works her butt off for it. 10 days of 12 hour shifts and 5 days off (she hopes). She also took two summers out and got her Masters degree. $70 thou a decent enough wage in Connecticut- the cost of living is low there I think, certainly lower than FL. Well if you know the system here you must know the problems- and there are many. Just because people have to pay for medical here, it doesn't eliminate problems. There are plenty of horror stories here- like people having the wrong leg amputated, transplants, infections from swabs left in patients, misdiagnoses and so on.
I'm sure you'll be alright, Brit nurses are in high demand here- because they are so well trained (what does that tell you)...courtesy of the NHS, I might add. At least you won't have to worry about paying hefty student loans back for 25 years for the cost of your training- so you have something to thank the NHS for. My daughter -in-law's training cost $34,000 -just in tuition- she won't have paid it off till she's 45.
I disagree with you completely about privatising the NHS- the public will suffer for it. Private health care is a callous system, and I would hate to see Britain go down that path.
The NHS 10 year plan has ,what, 7 years to go? Hopefully things will get a lot better, especially in the overcrowded areas like London. Some of the treatment now is far superior to anything you will get here- my friend's pregnant daughter in particular.
Once again- all the best in your new life in the US.

Last edited by Taffyles; Apr 23rd 2003 at 10:42 am.
Taffyles is offline  
Old Apr 23rd 2003, 1:41 pm
  #25  
Emm
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 346
Emm is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Privatise it!

Originally posted by Rockgurl
With respect, I speak as an NHS employee. I have worked in the NHS for 13 years, and once you experience the absolute chaos that is the NHS you would understand the need for privatisation. Wages are 50% lower than they should be for the skills and experience offered, and watching patients die because of lack of funds, staff and input is heart-wrenching. Infection is rife because of un-supervised "cleaners" who push around dirty mops and don't use proper disinfectant because it's too expensive. Every single day of my working life there is always something that we run out of or don't have in stock. Yesterday I couldn't do a patients dressings because we had no gauze. Imagine...an intensive care unit that doesn't have any gauze! Staff are leaving left, right and centre because of appallingly low morale and nothing is done to aid staff retention. We work 13-hour shifts...completely exhausted every day. Once a month I work 7 night shifts in a row...all 13 hours long. That's a 90-hour week, of an intense, difficult, stressful and emotionally demanding job. Most of the equipment is outdated and doesn't work properly. What is the sense in this? What is the advantage to this? None! Privatise it...pour money in to it, but do something, because things have got so bad it is only a matter of time before the whole service implodes. I cannot wait until I get to the States, to be paid properly and work in a modern, clean. up-to-date environment. Say what you like about the private healthcare, but it works! There is no way I would go into hospital as a patient in England, and I dread the day any relative of mine has to. You get what you pay for!
With respect I also worked in the NHS for 10 years in ICU. I have worked all over the south east and in London and I worked 12 1/2 hour shifts for nearly all that time. 12 hour shifts are fairly standard for ICUs since then they only have to cover 2 shifts a day instead of 3. I also worked 7 nights in a row once a month - followed by 6 nights off. Yes it is hard, yes it is tiring, it is emotionally demanding and not very highly paid but you get your rewards in other ways. I personally (and all of my collagues) have saved peoples lives, I have influenced people and their families in a positive way and even when the patient has not survived I have helped them to understand and cope with the situation. I am proud of the job I have done and proud of the institution that enabled me to do that - the NHS.

I can name countless times when we have had patients transferred from private health care to the NHS as they have become sicker and needed Intensive Care, since ICU was not performed in their private hospital due to it being too expensive. I have also looked after people who have been left permanently brain damaged by lack of specialist after hours care in Private hospitals. You may get a consultant anaesthetist to do the anaesthetic for your op and a consultant surgeon to do your op but who looks after you when they have gone home at 5pm? Some junior doctor who has little experience and even less back up - Crash team? What Crash team? Some private hospitals have to dial 999 after hours and call an NHS ambulance to come and get their emergencies - I kid you not.

I would much rather have any treatment in an NHS hospital as I trust that if something went wrong, I would have a much better chance of surviving intact.

On a personal level my first child was born at 29 weeks of pregnancy and spent 6 weeks in SCBU, she had excellent care and has done brilliantly - it cost us not a penny over and above our taxes and NI contributions. When I was pregnant with my 2nd child I had a Consultant oversee my entire pregnancy just in case the same thing happened again. This time I managed to hang on until 35 weeks and my youngest daughter only needed 1 weeks care in SCBU.

Would I have received the same care in a private health care system? I think not, certainly I would have had to pay some extra and it probably would have been quite a lot. I imagine my premium would have increased for subsequent pregnancies too.

The NHS has it's faults, it certainly is still underfunded but it provides some of the best healthcare in the world for one of the lowest prices and you won't hear me knocking it.
:lecture:
Emm is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.