toandfro

F**k I'm Good Just Ask Me although Ilike the biscuit option!!

toandfro

qualified in what shoud be your Question not all of us work in call centres or have degrees in English lit (a very useful thing to have ) I am not afraid of being sacked as I have no real desire to take over the asylum .I have been sack for being over qualified for the job I was doing and refused work due to my skills not directlly of course to many legal avenues doing that ,but certainly not hired in the first place- we won't hire you because you won't stay.. there probably are people in the UK like here the only difference is by what I said I ment even those who have nothing to skite about now if you have finished winding my clock you may go back to blowing your trumpet

Mercedes

It's not about Luck Pollyanna. My only qualifications when I arrived in Oz was my school ones. My skill is my mouth and being able to sell myself. I've created every damn opportunity that I have had. The yellow pages initially often has been my tool in getting employment. I also know it isn't easy as you're against politics in some companies and I'm not the brown nose type either.....so another hurdle to cross...

But to give you some examples When I was temping in Melbourne when I first arrived there and on my last leg of my whv. I had 6 weeks to go before it expired, no real knowledge of computers. I asked for the manual, and quickly flicked through it to get what I needed to do what I had to do. In my lunch break I ate my sandwhich reading the manual. In fact I got so good at reading it I ended up showing some of the other staff how to do things on their computers. They all had done a training course with an external company, so I asked them who the trainer was and rang her. She actually in the end offered me a job as a trainnee trainer. I couldn't take it as I was looking for a sponsor and the job didn't qualify. But I had opened the idea for her and she decided to take someone on to help her when she was busy.

I then picked a well known Financial Institute who were the leaders in their field (I also did research on them) at the time, I went for the top company to start with.... and the terms was that I would have to bring in X amount of dollars in in, I had 4 weeks before I was meant to leave the country and I didn't know anyone nor the company and it's products very well. I got some companies to send in their internal staff directories and pitched them. In fact I actually got banned from calling them, after my name was used specifically. I used to go to bed with a sales book to read to know how to sell as I didn't have much knowledge there either. I sold my target and the Financial institute gave me a job as a Consultant, my application for sponsorship went into immigration the day I was supposed to leave. The company which is also international had never sponsored anyone before and I was the first. I never left Australia after that, which many told me I would have to do. I went to bed with quite a few books then as well, learning about things I needed to know to do my job effectively. Whilst the sponsorship was being approved, it was quite stressful as I was told I may be asked to leave without much notice. It never happenend. In fact the Australian corporation treated me differently to the other Australian newbies, I had my own office and mentor, the other Australians didn't. I also didn't have any more skills than them either.

Another..in Sydney, I had just been made redundant and I got a brief stint selling space to suppliers for the Pet Expo. Hard as the Sales Director gave me everything he couldn't sell or where no hopers. So to keep the job (which I found boring and wanted to leave) I went and saw a computer company. Everyone thought I was mad. But I saw an opportuntity of the guy making a load of dosh as many educational software (again I did my research) was pet related. The guy went for it and made loads of money, more than he had made from the Computer expo.. He asked me when I would go and work for him. I remember replying he couldn't afford me. He told me to get into an area that had come out in technology of computers, when they first came out, again I had no knowledge of it and he offered to lend me his equipment for no charge if it would help me practice, whilst I learnt. I also asked him if he would give me a part time job, he said he liked my attitude and gave it me at a price I asked for. I was getting paid more than his full time Australian staff. I didn't find that out until later. I only worked there a few months as I was too expensive. But I achieved what I wanted to do and I also kept in touch with him. As far as I was concerned he had created a position for me and helped me and given me other thoughts for job opportunties when I needed it.

After that I got a job with a large corporation in Sydney as a Manager. First job that I answered that actually was advertised. I was competing with Australians and others who had degrees coming out of their ears. Over 100 people had applied for it. And I got the job, without a degree or relevant qualifications. Why, because I identified that they had a problem and was coming up with a solution and that's what they were looking for. I had never also worked as a manager before and out of their 13 Australian managers apart from one, in the department I WAS PAID THE HIGHEST. In fact I was in my division over about $15,000. I also went to bed with a few more books as I had to turn the department around and I had 2 days to get a gist of the company. I also had do a business plan, which I had not done before ever, to get board approval for approx 100 grand and put my arguments in it with how that money would be paid back via business. That was the third day with a company I didn't know. I hadn't even unpacked. It got Board approval. The other thing was I was viewed as the enemy by the staff as the guy I had replaced had been there for 30 odd years, been pushed out and offered early retirement, and was Australian and loved by them.... I must admit I did feel like walking in with army fatiques and a machine gun some mornings...as it felt like being in a war zone. It was also one of the loniest times as my partner was away for 6 months and I didn't know anyone socially and I worked long hours.

Apart from that job, I never answered adverts, they didnt' work for me. I had more luck going down the yellow pages of companies in industries that interested me. 12 years in Australia I lived in Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Darwin, Qld and never was out of a job and I entered every industry I wanted to, and for most of the companies I wanted to. Everytime I moved I was pushing myself up a ladder and not only did I have to create those opportunties, I was starting afresh, with new friends, etc. So really I had to start over again each time. I worked for and with some of the major companies and Government bodies in Australia. One was a Japanese company and I had to deal with Japanese people which I hadn't much knowledge of either...but again...bedtime reading... So I'm fully aware of many of the problems and what you're all up against.

UK....on arrival back, after 12 years being away. I cold called a number of companies I was interested in an industry that I wanted to go into. In fact it took me a while to find them. Again I had no knowledge of the technical parts of the industry, I contacted the companies and went to see them. My pitch was I would find them the clients and they would only pay me on performance. To stop me going to their competitors, one, paid for my office, my staff and telephone plus commission. No salary. I then had to find the clients, who I had none, so had to start from scratch, and they become, the big names of well known companies. I didn't have any contact either in UK when I came back, no one helped me there either. I sold the company back to the Supplier when I went to Spain where I didn't speak any Spanish, never had been there before and saw an opportuntity.

Now I'm in a totally different industry and again, I pushed my way in....I'm competing against men who have been in it for 20 odd years with experience and knowledge that I don't have. I was told to stick to what I know best. I retrained, and pushed myself in, my name is now known, I deal with Governments in UK and overseas and I set up a company in competition to all those chauvanistic men, with one of them, who was initially my biggest critic, and we are one of the market leaders in UK now and highly respected by many. First hurdle I could have quit, it took me time to push in, it didn't happen over night, but I spent time, people getting to know me and trusting me. I now deal with quite a few very interesting people. Part of the company is training and I've trained those students in also being able to get jobs of their choice and some have been very successful. So it does work.

It's about thinking outside the box, selling yourself and showing what benefit you are to the employer. As I said my tool is my mouth, the yellow pages and going to bed with books on the subjects that I don't know and upgrading my skills all the time and knowledge. It works because I've been completely broke in Australia, without a job or a home when I split from my husband and didn't get a penny from him and i had a baby in tow. When she died I also had to cope on my own out there and finding work when you're depressed is also not a good thing, but I did it. There is another Australian who comes to mind who called me into an interview and gave me a bollocking because he thought I was underselling myself for the job that I had applied for. He had no intention of hiring me, he was furious that I had applied for something I was overqualified for. I have him to thank, as it motivated me and I was not long after working for another well known company.

Now I'm in my late 30's I own my two house, one in Spain and Uk without a mortgage, no debts and co owner of company.

I have recently done an adult teaching qualifications which gives me another skill as I want to do involve myself in some other areas and it enables me to do so... I do what I need to do to get what I want. It's not about luck or being in the right place at the right time always. I think you have to create your own luck sometimes. You can have the best skills in the world but if someone doesn't like you, they won't hire you. People buy people at the end of the day and what you can do for them and it doesn't matter where you come from. Some people I've gelled with and others I didn't, but I move onto the next person /company who I might.

Polly, would it help you going to someone senior and having a chat with them and asking exactly what you need to get onto the permanent staff with your company? I been refused a job with one division of a corporation to be taken by another with a different viewpoint. Its finding the person you gel with and asking for their help....alternatively have you got skills that you can offer to small businessness who individually can't take you on full time but maybe offer you part time. If you have a few, you could end up with a fulltime work with a number of clients? Can you retrain or update your skills with a few australian ones? You obviously can type. A colleague of mine's wife works from home typing for a lawyer, he dictates it, sends it via email. She types it and send it back and he picks it up wherever he is in the world for his meeting. Just by thinking outside the box, she is semi retired and earns a bit to pay the bills.

Get the old yellow pages out and go down the index of it, great place for ideas.

toandfro

was going to list expierences similar with different out comes but can't be arsed it doesn't matter to you that things differ person to person you believe your expeirence is valid to every one and that what works for you works for every one .many people do things you mention and ,through no fault of their own, end up bankrupt ,or very close to it or in other serious trouble. i'm glad that things have worked for you but that doen't mean everyone else is doing something wrong or not trying or not exploiting opertunities it is just the luck of the draw and remember taking a pop at my spelling gramma .....your monolog reads very badly in some areas ,not that it matters its the point that matters

Pollyana

I do have a lot of admiration for you Mercedes, you are a real go-getter I've read your story before in various posts and you've done really well. But thats not the life I want. I'm not a go-getter, I have very low self-confidence, always have had. Sales/Marketing that kind of thing - doesn't appeal in the least, I don't have that sort of personality that can convince people to buy. I'm just too shy and insecure, and at 43 its too late to try and change. I also don't want a job with "pressure" - sales targets etc, my needs are different from yours. I have a long background in emergency service admin-type work, nothing high flying, and thats all I want to do. I have been hampered by personal dislikes of interview panles members - whio even admit later that someone else got the job though being younger, prettier, pregnant, and fast tracked by The Boss. I've done the diligent bootlicking, been groomed by my own boss for interviews - and he has been as stunned as me when I lose out.
I'm sure I could take a job on Kmart, or hawk myself round agencies temping with no security, or get into a sales job with pressure that haunts and stresses me (I know it does that to ME) but I don't want that.
I have to fight every 3 months for a renewed contract, but I have weighed up that this is the only way I get to stay in my chosen field.

I also can't live on part-time mone, no savings and The Bloke doesn't earn enough for 2 of us. I have no desire to change the world, own businesses or anything like that - I don't have the character to do that even if I wanted to. All I want is the security of a permanent contract, doing exactly what I'm doing now, basic admin, but in an emergency services environment.

Don't take this as a whinge please, its just someone with a totally different outlook on jobs and work.

Mercedes

Hi Pollyanna. Your comments are fair enough and as long as you are happy with most parts of your life, that's the main thing.

It is interesting though that we are all having to sell/market ourselves throughout our lives. Whether it is like you trying to get the organisation you work for, in renewing your contract,they are basically buying your skills and personality and what benefit you bring to them. Whether you get your permanent job is whether someone sees the benefit of you or not ie buy you and your skills. So you are probably not as shy and insecure as you think you are, as you've got to this point so far that you are working in the field you want so selling/marketing yourself has been pretty good to even getting your contract renewed each time.

Whether we are doctors, accountants, secretaries, etc we are all having to sell our ideas to our colleagues, our managers, finance departments to get what we want, whether it is equipment, supplies, or whatever, or even going to a new place or country in making friends where we are trying/hoping people like our personality to want to be friends with us, those who are popular or have close friends have sold themselves well.

I think it is hard to avoid pressure in most jobs nowadays, office politics can be enough.

I often enjoyed my jobs but hated the office politics, the job for the boys mentality, the sexism often, watching people who had worked all their lives for a company and pushed out onto the wayside because they were viewed as old and no use to them anymore. I've seen that in a few companies. No loyalty. My last boss (who replaced the guy who hired me) was a sexist, bully who got fired 2 years after I left for 12 counts of sexual harrassement and bullying. He did me a favour, I decided then and then, that I would never work for anyone again, so I didn't. I now control my own environment, ie work with people I want to, in areas I want to work, in countries and being able to help those who are in desperate need often hands on. I'm not in Sales and Marketing although like every part of life it plays a part in my life, but it's not my main job as by retraining I have other skills and qualifications added to my CV which opened other doors for me. I really beleive you can change what you don't like in your life and get what you want, it's not an easy road but you can get there. If I'm not happy I change what I'm not happy with, to me life is too short to be unhappy, hence why I don't have negative people in my life if I can help it, I went through a culling process a few years back.. I think negative people drag you down and can help contribute to lack of self esteem and confidence.

Best of luck with your renewal contract, maybe on the next board, give all the other canditates some laxative chocolate beforehand so they have to leave the room on several occasions....or spray them with some revolting perfume discreetly...

BadgeIsBack

Pollyanna you sell yourself short! Shy!? I think the problems you have are typical of public sector jobs -know what it is like.The private sector is a completely different animal!

Although I also want back in .....(!) The problem I have is I could sell sand to the Arabs, problem is I'm so cynical about the artificiality of the jobs I do it just doesn't interest me. I sit in with senior mgmt and could do their job-only I don't want to be so 'false'. I want to be on the back of a firetruck.

Pollyana

Remember mate, you only know me through social situations with friends around me, and after a few drinks! The work environment can be rather different!

toandfro

it's about normal for any sector let alone public ,it is frequently quoted your qualifications are not Australian yet in the UK at the come to Aust fairs they tell you your qualifications are transferable . If I were you by now I would have screamed at the interviewer some thing like what do you want a office full of bimbos you know I'm the best and you discriminating .you know you don't have to leave to charge them with discrimination you know . but like I said on a different thread I have a nasty streek

Pollyana

I've cut bits from your reply Mercedes, leaving the relevant excerpts! Hope you'll excuse the liberty! This is now going to be a really selfish type of post, but I've whinged about my job so much, that I should share the good as well as the bad....
Anyway, this week, AO2 contract still has 2 months to run, but an AO3 vacant for a few months, next level up, Support Officer instead of Admin Officer, bit more specialist, bit more of a chance to show what I can do, working in the same area of Emergency Services, I thought I'd put in for it, really cos it was the expected thing to do. I had no faith in getting it at all. This week the acting boss (perm one away on leave) says to me that they are interviewing 2 people - and I'm one of them. I KNOW I looked stunned. I then had to hide my disappointment when she told me the other panel member would be one of the guys who savaged me last time before giving the 2 jobs to other girls. I'll be honest, if I'd known he was involved I would never have applied.
However, someone up there is looking after me maybe, as he phoned this morning and had to pull out for family reasons. So the boss roped in (unknown to her) the one guy that has believed in me and encouraged me from day one. She knew we were friends, but I don't think she has any idea how much he has tried to encourage me job-wise to keep going.
The interview was horrible, as they all are, and then they had me into the office last thing this afternoon, and said "You're by far the best candidate, you've got the job". I'm stunned. I think my jaw is still on the floor! Yes its only temporary, but its a step up, it has far more responsibility, and they have said they have faith that given the chance I can show the rest of the place what I can do. Because its more of a project role, I got interview questions about projects I've done, databases I've worked on, reports I've written. All that stuff was back in my "English" life and has been dismissed out of hand if ever mentioned before even in passing - this time I KNEW they would listen. They didn't care which country it was in - they told me so - they just wanted to know that I could do the job.

Very refreshing chance, very different attitude. I can't thank them enough for the opportunity that I've waited over 2.5 years for.

BadgeIsBack

Christ - excuse the profanity - Pollyanna. I've got a lump in my throat. Well done darling. (Tell us all on the other side too). I do remember being in the same situation albeit only for a few months so sort of know what is like!

That has ended what has been a great day.

wmoore

Good work Poll


I've only skimmed bits of this thread but I thought I'd add a bit about my experiences job-hunting. I'm in IT and the only real qualification I have is an MCSE (who hasn't got one of those? I hear you cry). But I did a lot of research into Aussie resumes, etc and got some help with my cover letter from a real good guy who doesn't post on here anymore (more's the pity). So when I applied for a job, I just re-ordered my CV and letter to basically blow smoke up my own arse and say that I could do the job with my eyes shut. Now that's not normally my character, I'm fairly reserved as a rule but it was what I had to do.

I got 5 interviews, in which I bragged about successful projects I'd led and various other achievements. I was offered 3 of the jobs and asked back for a 2nd interview on the other two And since then I was 'headhunted' (kind of anyway) for a more senior post here in Darwin. I went to the interview in shorts, T-shirt and things (yes really ) and here I am.

So by changing my character to shouting my achievements from the rooftops, I'd say I've been pretty successful here, including getting paid more than I did in the UK, which I didn't expect.

Mercedes

I'm glad to hear it Pollyanna, and it looks positive, see you can sell yourself well. Hopefully this is on the uproad for you and will give you much more confidence for future challenges, never doubt yourself girl, your boss never did, so why should you. I want to read in future threads that you are running the whole show.

Pollyana

Trust me, I don't WANT to run the whole show! But the really good thing was - my "mentor" as I tend to think of him, knows my strengths, he knows what I've done before, so he was willing to listen to me describe it and I watched the other person slowly open her eyes. She has only worked with me for a month and had no idea of my background - she has only seen me working as an admin officer, organising a diary etc. Today I was enticed into describing how I overhauled an entire criminal record check office, participated in the computer design group for the database, and turned a struggling cupboard into an efficient office. I needed to be given the chance to show it - now I need to produce the goods, and I know I can do that.

Mercedes

Well done. How are you liking Darwin? One of my favourite places, I've got quite a few friends there, worked for a few of the government bodies there as well as had a few as clients. It was where I went when I was broke, and my good old husband cleared me out. I found the people there incredibly kind, and many offered me a roof over my head when I was looking for work. I stayed on the Navy base as one of the places, as some of the guys adopted me and found me an empty room and fed me. sandwiches from the canteen. . Good thing was there was no strings attached either, they really wanted to help me. I was there for 2 months and never got caught, plus they took me to the RAF hospital when I was sick and gave them false id numbers for me. I think the nurse there knew I wasn't navy, but I was that ill that she ignored it and treated me, well actually they called in the doctor who arrived in his tux and were going to keep me in overnight, but managed to persuade them I wasn't that bad. I had this image of me escaping in my PJ's if they had. They did find out later and I got told off, but nothing happened. I think I still have one of their passes to get on the base. One of my interviews was with the radio station there (can't remember it's name) and the manager called me in for an interview just to bollock me for applying for a job I was over qualified for. Had no intention of hiring me, as he said it worried him that I had such low expectations. Best motivation I got, I went home and rang a few others and got an interview 2 days later. Still think of that bloke as it was the best motivator for someone to tell you they thought you were worth higher than what you were applying for. I love to meet him again one day and thank him, but he's probably moved on.

One of the places that is always on my intinery when I go to Oz. Got a lot of fond memories of Darwin, it was a good place to be when I was on a downer and for people to pick you back up. Lot of great people there, you should have no problems making loads of good friends and plenty of partying.

Do they still have the markets on the beach there in the evening where they sell different asian food. Often used to go there and watch the sunset and have dinner.

If you go camping don't get caught out, like I did, I was told to take a warm jumper for the evening and a sleeping bag, I thought they were kidding so ignored the advice, we were only 2 hours away and it was freezing.

If they still have got it and you want an experience try gliding there, they crank it up, I took a Brit navy guy there and I actually thought it was going to crash when it was his turn as well as he did as all I could hear was the screams from the ground....Thankfully it didn't crash and I didn't have to carry his body back to the base...although he did have to put up with me taking the piss out of him....

I better shut up now....fond memories...