Are we crazy?
 

Hi all,

We moved to Canada in January this year, we always went with muddled expections of how long we were staying, we prepared for long term (sold our house) while keeping our jobs on sabbatical. To be honest, I didn't really want to take the risk with our comfortable lives but we had gone so far down the line, I though we'd always regret it if we didn't do it.

I had terrible homesickness to start with, got better, got worse again spring time, and then life got really good here. My husband enjoys his work, lifestyle is great here, we're far better off etc etc. On this positive note, needing to be out of our rental house and lack of suitable renting options, we bought a house (fools you cry and I would completely agree). So far so good...

Untill now, terrible homesickness strikes again. We have lovely friends, but I miss our old friends more. I miss my job (I was a nurse) and nowhere near conversion here, and there's no other jobs here. I miss the area I used to live in even though it's so urban compared to the beautiful place we live in now. I miss my annual holiday to Europe. Logically everything is right here, money, friends, things to do, etc etc. But I can't shake the feeling of missing the bones of my old life... If I think about it too much I feel suffocated. How can everything be so right here and feel so wrong?

I've expressed my feelings to my husband and although he loves it here, he misses home too and doesn't want me to be miserable. Understands how I feel about my job etc. Crazy- most people would love not to work. Even my 3 yr old seven months in still wants to go home. My son has struggled to find the right fit of friends, he loves the outside stuff though. To add to complication, we found out number three is on the way and instead of thinking about staying, it makes me want to go home even more.

We still have our jobs, just, my husband actually gave verbal notice to his partnership, although not written, and they'll probably be ecstatic if he changes his mind. My job is the nhs, but to go back to my dept, I need to get a wriggle on.

So we're actually contemplating going home for the start of a new year, we're heartsick at the complication of what to do with a house, a lovely amazing house, in an area which sells badly and realtors ask crazy fees, and also the costs of coming and going.

Are we being stupid? Should we ride this homesickness out? We can't wait til we sell the house as husband will breach his sabbatical agreement. We would have to send money back and keep our fingers crossed. Is this just a stupid idea and we should stay? We're here on a twp til oct 2016, we were going to start PR soon. I don't how to decide based on feelings that fluctuate so much but I know I won't regret going back to our lives.

I appreciate it if you're still reading and any advice would be gratefully received..
:(

Re: Are we crazy?
 

If you're not enjoying life there in the Summer then, oh dear, it's not going to get better.

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:(

Feel for you Tirytory, I was having a bad homesick day the other day. Like you I felt suffocated.... Seeing pictures of family meeting up back there didn't help at all obviously. I'm torn as to what to say because there are so many on here who have said "If only I knew, if only I listened to my feelings 5-6 months in, I would have gone home and been happy" ... Those people are still in the US/Canada almost 50 years after that due to family/work constraints / can't afford to go back. Its really disheartening to hear stories like that. That's what I want to tell you on one hand, but on the other hand I want to tell you to ride it out, see what happens come winter. But then you're in the tricky situation of lost sabbatical, no jobs to go home to, etc. You say the homesickness passed before... Here's what I say - give it till the end of August, and if you're still feeling suffocated every day, go home. That way nothing will be of issue re kids education, number three would be born in the UK so no issues of him being a British citizen by descent, basically no interruptions besides a 8 month "vacation" to Canada.

:)

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I agree ...

Re: Are we crazy?
 

You need to make a rational decision, or at least try to. Thats hard when there are good periods and bad periods.

Make lists, pros and cons, decide what is really important to you. Try and think how you might feel 5 years from now, once jobs etc have settled down if you stay or go.

I dont envy you. The danger is that the grass is always going to seem greener the other side whichever you choose, so once you have put a finger on what it is that is unsettling you and make a choice based on that you really have to commit to your choice.

At least there is a silver lining that your other half is on board, that will make whatever you decide easier to accomplish.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

You're definitely not crazy, my mum initially immigrated to Canada in 1972, and since then she has moved back 4 times, she eventually came back to Canada for good but says that she regrets not going back a few years back permanently and simply feels that she's too old now to up sticks and move back to Scotland for good.

The point I'm getting to is do what makes you feel happy, you don't want to simply "settle" for Canada if you want to be home, go home, you can always come back if you change your mind. If you don't act on those feelings, down the road you may regret it in hindsight and if you already have a support system that is backing you up, even more the reason.

Good luck :)

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I'd always err on the side of giving yourself time. You have barely been there half a year.

Maybe also post something similar on the Canada board to get a balanced perspective. Many (most?) people on MBTTUK are here because they want to move back or have moved back so they may be more predisposed to the idea of returnng.

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Not so easy as they dont have Cdn citizenship and have no time to get it if they want to return to their old jobs. The potential arrival of another child that would be neither Canadian PR or citizen if born in the UK would require some additional paperwork, with the usual long wait for canadian bureaucracy to slowly grind its wheels.

Realisitically if they dont return right now, how hard would it be to land jobs in the NHS a few years from now? Shouldnt be too hard I wouldnt think?

Also doing what makes you happy is fine if that doesn't change every three months, but that doesn't seem to be the case here so could be fraught with peril and some serious financial consequences.


My default position in all these "shall I stay or should I go" threads is that you have to give it at least a year to be fair to yourself. The fact that there are jobs expiring in the UK shouldn't change that, there will be other jobs out there in future if you want to return once you are past all the culture shock and adjustment and emotional upheaval that moving countries involves.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I used to think that only rich people said house and money don't bring happiness.

It's true though, over a basic point.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I could post on the Canadian board, but they do seem to have followed here too :)

DBd...I don't dislike summer here, there's lots to do!

Ian.. My job will be held for three yrs but not necessarily in my dept, which I happen to love and can't imagine doing anything other than what I was doing. My husband, if we are to go home needs to go home next yr latest if he is keep his re-registration as a GP, after that he wouldn't be able to work for a little bit until paperwork/continuing education in UK was sorted. Makes it complicated. But essentially there will always be locum work for him, just not his partnership, and he did value his partners.

Financially, he has done well out here so far, so the financial hit going back wouldn't be awful. Other than having to send money back to Canada to cover the home until it sells.

But Iaink you're right, it's hard to make a decision based on feelings. Logically Ontario is the better place in most ways, other than it doesn't have any of my family and friends here! My son asked to go home for his birthday in August to see his friends, but I'm too scared too, I might not want to leave!

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I think that's true too..... Money is appealing, but not more appealing than my old life. We have a far superior house here to the house we came from and the house or similar we would have to go back to. But I feel a bit lost here, all essentially we've bought is more floors and a hot tub to clean...

Re: Are we crazy?
 

:)

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We started here with no family and friends, but that changes over time. Once kids are at school there is more opportunity to make friends, and we have been fortunate to make wonderful canadian friends through work or church who are defacto aunts uncles and honorary grandparents.

Obviously thats not the same as biological family, (which in my wifes case is a positive plus point) but it goes some way to making it more like home. Then again, my wife has recently reconciled with some of her family, and having cousins within driveable distances is a thrill for the kids.

Its a tough choice, but my instinct is always going to be that if you spend less than a year there will always be that nagging doubt about "what might have been". Jobs are jobs, its nice to be working with a great group, but there are always other alternatives and they may be just as good. Ultimately at 5pm you leave them and go spent time with the important people in your life.

I get the impression that if you were working here in Canada then you would probably be happier, more social contact, less rattling around in the big house? Try and picture yourself a few years from now back nursing, kids settled in school... Where would you rather that be happening?

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Iaink..... You appear very perceptive! You're right, and the reason I've put my feelings about my job away is because presently I only worked 10 hrs. It seemed silly to jeopardise everyone else's life for my 10 hr job. It doesn't help that my husband is self employed, if he doesn't work, no money, and I can't help out in any way. I find it stressful!

But in truth I love my work, and I will be in no way able to replicate what I could do back home in this place, certainly not without moving to a big city, Toronto or London perhaps, but them that negates the whole beautiful place thing. So as usual I feel that it comes down do I give up part of me for everyone else? Or do I take us home where I know our lives will go back to being the way they were (which I loved incidentally)?

We recently had family (brother in law and family) over too....and everyone was really upset when they had to go. It makes us wonder what we're giving up, plus the news that his dad's health has deteriorated suddenly doesn't help.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Family and ageing parents... there probably isnt a poster here who either hasnt gone through that, or is going through it, or will go through it at some point:(

So it comes back to rationalizing why should you stay vs why should you go back.


What was the draw of Canada in the first place? How much of that have or can you achieve? What things about the UK are going to drive you nuts after a couple of months that you have forgotten about since leaving?

Like I said, I dont envy you. If it were not for the jobs in the UK running out of time would you leave now, or wait it out longer?

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I suggest you go home for a few months then see if you still like it there or if it's an illusion. Personally I feel guilty about not being available for my grand-kids but otherwise I have no wish to return. Rather I would like to get my family away from the UK.
Remember the UK is broke and going nowhere. I find it negative and of course there is the weather!
You also have to consider your kids and their future. Where will their interests best be served? Canada is a young country and more or less knows and accepts it's place in the world. The UK is still behaving like a world power which it cannot afford.
They still have no idea how to run the finances of the UK and must inevitably look forward to some kind of collapse in the future.
There are a lot of issues and only you can decide between logic and emotion. Just remember that what you may recall about the UK is probably a clouded memory.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

It was more my husbands dream to come... His frustration with his job will still be there.

I wanted the adventure, the idea that there might be a better place to live, but we were never escaping anything, we both enjoyed our lives back home, we might not have had a big house, but it was a very happy home.

The things that frustrated I now miss, the NHS/politics etc. The sense that they were important or that people around me cared. I felt connected by that sense of caring about it even if it was frustrating at the same time. But there's already things that frustrate me here...

If it weren't for the house we'd go home...

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I haven't been gone that long, only January. I remember exactly the way things are. The UK isn't broke, it's just an argument used by people who want to patronise another persons decision which they don't agree with although I find the UKIP thing a bit worrying admittedly.

I don't think the education system is as good here as back home, I don't think the potential for future employment where we live is as good here as back home, it doesn't seem that advanced to me. All countries finances are cyclical. You only have to look at the exchange rate to show that the UK is bouncing back. I find the part of Canada where I live ever so slightly racist if I'm honest and that bothers me, it's so very white here. There's a lot of poverty here just as back in the UK, and the health system isn't as good as the NHS.

It's blinkered to assume that the UK is all bad. We happened to have the chance of a good life here due to my husbands job. That would apply anywhere pretty much.

Edited to add... I think the weather is the only thing I agree with. We would miss the weather and what you can do with it.

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The UK is definitely not broke, in fact, the general consensus from my family that live there is that the economy is surging. The UK has the fastest growing economy of any developed country, faster than Canada, U.S. and Germany. Recently a friend of mine moved from the GTA where he had searched for work for months in his field to no avail, he applied to a position in Edinburgh whilst still in Canada and received a job offer and relocation package.

Now granted his situation may be the exception of the rule, but I definitely would not write off the UK, Canada's economy is stalling, and people in my generation are having a terrible time making a living around here.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Reading your post it seems to me that you have had your feet left in UK! When we came over we were enthusiastic and had no jobs to come to but left a house in UK as investment. That was 12 years ago. Eventually the loneliness did get to me 7 years later and missing my friends and family became more and more important as I got older. Having another child here while you want to be "home" will only I believe cement your reasons for going home! Your family is there! You keep mentioning your job that you "love" so that is important. Why not stay for a few more months until you have to go back for your jobs and let your house out here for a year and see how you like that year back in UK. If you can get your permanent residence in meantime, being out of the country for a year I think is doable! You may have to check though.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Wow FeelBritish, view it backwards, that is actually a great idea!

It actually works, you won't believe how well... My husband has two exams to sit here to get a full unrestricted license, one in autumn, one in spring, we could apply for few in the meantime... I could get my nursing under my belt if we really want to go back...

Re: Are we crazy?
 

The family thing sucks. Recently I had to say goodbye to grandparents - they moved back home this month. :(

The thing is i'm tied both ways - when I am in Canada, half my close family is back home. When i'm back home, half my close family is in Canada. Its tough... By the sounds of your other post it seems even the children want to go home... I'd agree, the education system here is - I don't even have a word for it. :eek::eek: Take it from someone whos gone through it (and still going through it, 3 years to go, whilst hating every second)

Then go. If you were still in a rental and you could easily give your notice and go home, and you'd go, then i'd say that's a sure sign to go. Do what feelbritish said and let the house out for a year, go back to the UK, and then all your options are open. :)

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Regarding the weather, the summer is great here, but unless you are able to take part in the hugely expensive winter activities here in Ontario, then for five months pretty much, there is not a lot to do....Plus I for one actually would like to not have to go from heating directly to air conditioning. This summer although not pool weather as much has been refreshing..

Re: Are we crazy?
 

There are things that don't cost a fortune,(curling, recreational skating, XC skiing for example) but as the OPs partner is doing alright as a doctor I doubt the cost of lift tickets is an issue.

This summer is very atypical. Kind of sucks as I was looking forward to going to the beach with the kids:(

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Being a SAHM with four kids, kitting them out is beyond our budget!! As too is the lift pass! An honest response.....And hubby earns a decent wage.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

I hear you. The good news (such as it is) is that although the initial outlay to get skates and skis etc is steep, at least there is a thriving 2nd hand market for both buying and selling gear, so over time it sort of evens out.

We havent really got into curling, but "Thing1" was very taken with it after a few goes out last year and the cost of it is really reasonable, so thats high on the radar for this year. "Thing 2" still want to Ski Race... poverty awaits:(

None of which applies to the OP...

Re: Are we crazy?
 

So after a few days of soul searching....and with a husband who's thought it over and is now exceptionally reluctant..... I still feel that the things that are wrong here won't be fixable.

We've made friends and those friendships will grow, but they can never replace the 10-15 year friendships we left behind. I want those back. If we go at the end of the year, my son can find his place back in his friendships, we can hopefully get him through the schooling that he's missed out on in a year, but more importantly for me I lost my identity when I moved here so deeply tied up with my job. I suspect we missed a trick not having this all set up when we moved and choosing the place we lived for my job and not just his job, but we didn't and I don't want to be in a place in five yrs time where I'm frustrated and bored. Being good at my job, independence, my own wage all mean too much to me.

As I mentioned earlier my husband wants to stay, mostly related to the fact that being a GP in the UK right now is not a good job to have and I do feel exceptionally guilty about that.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

We returned to England last July after 6 years in Canada and arrived into a heatwave which continued for the next few weeks and autumn was lovely. Yes, winter was a wash out for most but thankfully we were out of the flood zones and still enjoyed breaks from the rain.
Spring came in February this year which was a pleasant welcome after Canada where spring would not arrive until April/May if you were lucky. Rain has been pretty much non-existent here since then and we have had plenty of hot sunny days this summer so far. I have a tan coming along quite nicely :)

The UK is not broken, maybe a bit bent, but not broken. Those stories are sensationalised by the Daily Fail which unfortunately some people feed off.

Hi Tirytory, I only just read this thread so am joining after you have made your decision, but just wanted to wish you good luck and I hope returning here works out for you :)
I do agree that you should rent your Canadian home for a year or 2 though, just to be sure ;)

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Some people will advise "give it time...or leave now" it sounds so simple and sometimes it can be ....me I dither and think about things...sometimes way to much lol my husband on the other hand is of the "if it's not working then why waste time", my husbands nephew and his partner went to live in Canada last August and came home in February saying "it was just not for them" and just carried on with their old lives here in the UK quite happily....If I had a good lifestyle in the UK (or any other country), enjoyed where I lived and loved my work and friends etc then I would not leave.....heck that sounds to simple for me lol.....but sometimes a decision is that simple. Good luck with everything, try not to be so hard on yourself either.

Re: Are we crazy?
 

Very good post, however I don't think it would go down to well with
( Chris955)

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I'm so glad you werent suckered into the 'UK is broke going nowhere' nonsense. Believe me we would not have bought our young kids back here if it was even a tenth as bad as some would have us believe. It is a wonderful place to live with many opportunities. UKIP are ablip, they pop up every now and then only to disappear back down the hole.
You seem as though you have your head screwed on and not taken in by the nonsense spouted by a few.

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:goodpost: All true, it does suit the agenda of some to believe this nonsense though.

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Just skimmed through the thread - sorry to hear that you haven't managed to feel settled here yet. I don't have close family back in the UK - but I had a fantastic nursing job that I loved. We moved here in 2012 - in fact 2 years ago tomorrow!!!!! I found it extremely difficult to fit in. My main frustration was work - as we have discussed before, you know what it has taken for me to get some recognition for my nursing degree and 23 years of experience from the UK. I am only now starting to feel like I fit in - and a lot of that is to do with me being able to work doing what I love.

You would probably see things differently if you had got here, been able to sit your CRNE and worked - even if it was casual part time work. Nursing is a vocation, and to me it is a part of who I am - I don't know what I would do if I could not be a nurse.

I enjoyed having time off when we first got here - was great getting my girls settled, but then I needed adult company, and something to keep me stimulated.

Have you heard back from CNO about your application at all? Congrats on the pregnancy too :)

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Thanks Caleo... No nothing as yet. I know a friend of a friend who's still waiting nearly 18months later for just RPN evaluation. I think it's the combination of knowing that I live nowhere near a major city to find the type of environment that I'm used to working in, that an RPN will only frustrate me as I won't be able to work at the level I'm used to... And to get to an RN here, 3 yrs and 10,000 dollars later, and a 2 hr drive. I can't do it. My job is waiting for me back home, as well as my family and friends.. There isn't anything here for us that is so much better than back home.

Instinctively I know this is the right move. The kids are elated. Friends over the moon. I just want to go home now.

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Well, at least you tried :) - hope all goes well with your return! :)

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:goodpost:

Tirytory - there is nothing worth more than knowing you tried, being without that "what if" feeling. Cos if you didn't try coming to Canada, you would have wondered "well what if we acted on that dream to go to Canada?" for the rest of your life. At least you got that out of it. Good luck on your return to the UK :thumbsup:

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Sounds good.

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Argh just when I though we had it all figured out. My husbands work has thrown us a curve ball. It's because they are such thoroughly nice people, which is my husband wanted to go back to them rather than locum. Anyway I digress, they feel he's under pressure to make a decision to go back by end of December, and they want him to come back fully committed. So if the locum who's covering him at moment agrees, they've offered him another six months. Such nice people!

Is it the no brainer I think it is? Financially it makes a heap of sense. This job pays well, gives us time to accumulate more and sell the house! My heart says go, but even I can see that they've offered us something special.

My job is for three yrs, and registration requirements don't need to be met until June 2016 so plenty of time.

Cat. Pigeons.

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Wow, well at least you are still going back but with more time now to sell and relax and enjoy your months here in Canada. We had a similar story because our tenants who have been in our house (in England) for last 7 years have asked to renew the lease for another year from October. I think also will give us time to sell this house and then make some more money because that rent is pure profit into the bank! If we sell suddenly we will then rent until next year September!

Spend the time now just enjoying your surroundings knowing you will have more money in the bank ;)

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I am not in Canada I must first of all say that. I live in New Zealand. I came her about 24 years ago, not, because I wanted to leave the UK, but, because Siblings came here, followed by my parents, this left me alone in England. I came and settled here. I too saw the beautiful place that NZ is,I saw a place that there is space to grow, lovely weather and apparently everything is perfect. But, Like you, it does not feel right and did not from day one. I coped with things for years , never feeling at home. then My father died, this made me feel more homesick, but I struggled on and coped. Then in 2008 my mother also passed away. This has made me really long to go home However having married whilst here and having 3 children at school, I feel very suffocated. I feel I would go home tomorrow. If my wife would agree to it. He parents are aged and live near here . My wife said she would consider going when her parents eventually pass on. But I am in my 60s I fear that the day will not arrive where I can go home. My advice , if you are not feeling settled is to go home. Life loses some meaning when you are not living in the place you love. My dad said to me before he died that I was silly selling up my home in the UK. He was right ( in my case) There are people who do say that they are happy here and that they would never go home. Well I am not one of them.