dingbat

Lack of recent UK experience is the biggie. The last job I was shortlisted for was given to someone twenty years younger and with no direct experience, but they felt that she had "recent exposure" to the UK court system that I was lacking. Evidently the ten years "exposure" I had before emigrating was irrelevant.

dunroving

Do you think it was truly an issue of no recent UK experience, or of age discrimination ... ?

Apollo13

If Dingbat made it to the short-list stage I doubt whether age discrimintion was the issue.

The reason why I asked Dingbat to elaborate on the "no recent UK experience" issue is because she specifically mentioned court work. I have encountered similar obstacles when making applications in the UK. For many of the interesting positions in the UK criminal justice system there are now strict residency requirements. For instance, British police forces require applicants to have been resident in the UK for 3 years immediately prior to application. It is the same for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, UK Border Agency, SOCA, the list goes on....... Indeed, one similar job that I looked at the other day required applicants to have been resident in the UK for 9 of the last 10 years.

The main problem with jobs of these kinds is that the employing organisation usually wants to perform some sort of a criminal background check prior to employment and are simply not prepared to perform a background check on somebody who has been living abroad. I could understand this if an applicant had spent the previous three years in a training camp in Afghanistan but not if he/she has held a job requiring a clean criminal record and is returning from a country which is perfectly capable of conducting reliable background checks. The only exceptions I am aware of apply to those employed in the military or "serving her Majesty's Government" in some way. This residency rule also applies to British citizens. Furthermore, it is practically impossible to get the necessary application forms sent to a foreign address.

It is a real shame because the UK is missing out on a lot of qualified applicants. Worse, it makes a mockery of these organisations who continue to brag about their supposed equal opportunities and diversity programmes. Equal ops and diversity are not just about getting the right workforce balance in terms of age, colour and gender. It is supposed to be about employing the most diverse workforce possible. Returning ex-pats have often been exposed to all sorts of different situations, habits and lifestyles and, assuming that their attitudes and other personal qualities fit the bill, are probably in a better position to contribute and uphold diversity-related issues than most people who have never stepped outside their own comfort zone.

Just to put things in perspective: when I called the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to find out whether there was any way around these rules, the person handling my enquiry said that I "shouldn't have gone abroad in the first place" !!!

Enough said.

dunroving

Hmmm, welcome home indeed.

anishq

Such good and wise advice albeit sometimes difficult to follow even when we know we should.

birdynumnum

Hi

I spent 7 yrs there, with visa app etc, 10 on the Oz thing.
I'm home now and I pinged - had the same 2 year threshold there b4 boredom gripped me.

I know what you mean, but tbh, its made me so appreciative of UK nowadays and I don't think I'd have that if it wasn't for Oz. The grass isnt any greener.

Read an article in Sundays paper about people moving to Oz.....poor things - reasons like 'more time as a family, better weather, better lifestyle/quality of life' ......mmmm

Anyway, least it wasn't 20 or 30

Enjoy being back in UK (hot as Oz at the moment too

slidingbyee

Just to put things in perspective: when I called the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to find out whether there was any way around these rules, the person handling my enquiry said that I "shouldn't have gone abroad in the first place" !!!


I too have had similar responses - even richer when they come from individuals who have emigrated to the UK? Has anyone else experienced this growing sense of 'pull up the drawbridge/ resentment that you went abroad' mentality from the homeland. Certainly, in the last 10 or so years many rules/ regulations have changed (many cited in these) posts. Ironic, that the focus has once again been on the easy soft targets rather than the real issues?

Apollo13

It's not just the fact that the residency rules and regulations have changed. In fact, I can understand it in cases where job applicants need to be screened or vetted for employment involving contact with vulnerable people, the criminal justice system or issues of national security. However, I don't think that periods abroad should be an obstacle to screening somebody adequately. Sure, it is likely to take longer and is undoubtedly more expensive but surely worth it for a suitably qualified candidate.

The real issue here is the open hostility and resentment directed (by some people) at those who have lived abroad and are returning to the UK. Don't these people realise that emigrants have made difficult decisions, worked hard and made sacrifices to make a new life, often struggling to adapt to a new culture, raising families under difficult circumstances, studying/improving qualifications, making professional advancements, gaining useful skills etc etc etc.......?

They seem to think that we have all been gadding around the globe on what appears (to them) to be an extended Gap Year.

slidingbyee

I agree unfortunately as much as I love England, it is a very English trait in my experience - the envy factor.

happy4

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd add my thoughts. If I hadn't have lived in Oz, i honestly don't think I would have experienced the level of happiness I have now in the UK. Although the past year has been extremely hard in terms of being a single parent (my OH stayed in Oz) it has given us some life changing experiences!

I appreciate my family and friends much more. I try not to take things for granted and find I am much more positive. Small things like looking out into a green lush colourful garden and growing plants and flowers with my kids is just heaven. Seeing my kids happy here. Going to College (I have just completed my first year in A Level Law and an NVQ level 2 at my daughters Nursery, it nearly finished me off mind!!).

I doubt I would have achieved all these things and more if I hadn't been to Oz. I could never imagine living like I did there, ever again

jad n rich

Thats a great way to look at it

Like being in jail then let out

Pollyana

Not that different from other countries though, it isn't just a British thing. The number of positions in Australia that require citizenship is growing all the time for example. And I was told recently that while a security clearance is possible here wthout citizenship AND longterm residence here, that very fact makes it longer drawn out and far more complicated and expensive, so much so that employers try to avoid having to do it wherever possible.

Tr1boy

Personally I've never seen this as an issue. In 2006 a couple of companies tried it on (via agency) and I pushed back and they relented. I'm sure it depends on a couple of things though and what you do.

For example, I (and Mrs Triboy, although deskbound) have always worked for Global companies, have spent an awful lot of time traveling globally for work and tend to sit in meeting rooms with people from all over the world. Recently on here there was a subject about dealing with people from other cultures etc and I wrote that in my line work we don't tend to notice this in the room as we are there to work out solutions etc.

The type of technology I'm in and the suppliers and contracts I deal with are mostly global companies as well, and the technical language and requirements somewhat transcend physical borders (local laws excepted of course).

So when I go for an interview the company already know the issues and 9 times out of 10 the suppliers, as they are operating in the UK. I've always done this and always thought like this, and the only time I wasn't working for a global company was when I did a 6mth contract for NSWDoH but that was still doing what I do now.

If you have enough experience (I'm 13 yrs) and done significant work (that can mean different things to different people) and are good at what you do and confident in your abilities, this 'local experience' lark shouldn't be an issue, provided that that the 'names' (could be anything from customers to suppliers to tech solutions etc) you are throwing around on your CV and at the interview are recognisable to the company.

I've found, in my field this last bit is the critical point. No company in the UK (or Oz) will be overly impressed with the fact that you were an integral part of a small company that they've never heard of, no matter how hard you've worked. I certainly don't mean that in any derogatory way at all, but when looking to re-locate, my experience has been that companies love familiarity. Working for globals certainly has its downsides, but I've found this side of it is a distinct advantage.

I will add that a lot can also depend on how saturated your specialty is. I've spent the last 2.5yrs changing my specialty without changing the actual role. This has proved to be a really good move in my initial investigations to securing a job at home.

penny farthing

Contentment is rare and elusive and not easy to recognise.

Just think of all those who were forced to stick it out long ago.
No airlines to whisk them back home or money to buy a ticket.
We are lucky that modern travel and good jobs give us the ability to have the confusion of choice.
Our forebears had to suck it up and get on with it ..regrets, homesick, sad, tearful and no way back.

Maybe some of us think we made a wrong decision but we gave it a good shot and at least we can pack up and go if we are miserable and we're all damn lucky to be able to choose.

dingbat

Thanks everyone for the comments (and so sorry to have hijacked the OP's thread, I will shut up now).
I get the distinct impression that my age (early forties) comes into the equation sometimes. One interviewer in Lancs in even called me "luv" and asked why I thought any of my foreign experience was relevant "to us here in the UK". Well, let me see. I am English, born and bred. I have fifteen years UK full time work experience and now quite a few years over here. I manage a team larger and busier than yours....so do English people abuse their children differently than Canadians?

Just to clarify, I am GSCC and SSSC registered in the UK, have been since the inception of both the agencies. I work for the government here - potential employers can hardly claim they do not know what I do, or for what organization. I have RCMP clearance in BC and CRB clearance in the UK to work with children. The hoops you have to jump through to get that level of registration and clearance every year is phenomenal. I even had some UK people look at my CV, and have asked for feedback from interviewers. To be fair one guy was very honest and professional and wrote back to me that the lack of "exposure" to the UK system is the key...and because I have been abroad, I don't have any to offer within the last ten years, and "things have changed". I have been offered countless jobs in London, as it apparently doesn't matter there where you have been, but with the amount of kids I have, London is out of the question, as we simply could not afford to live. It is so frustrating.