holly_1948

I strongly suspect they are defrauding and getting away with it.
The issue should be "Who had legal custody of the child?" The parents in Arabia or the grandparents in England.
Once turned 18, of course, there is no longer any child as a matter of law.

bourbon-biscuit

And that seems to be another issue with the ruling/ law: it is so inconsistently applied and so frequently flouted (just searching these forums brings up posts where ppl's kids got home fee status by accident, by lying, by stealth, etc). This makes it even more unfair and a shonky law.

busybee2

no as the child should be resident in the country for 3 years beforehand.. and its up to university whether they decide to charge home or overseas fees,nothing to do with ucas or hmrc or anyone... just that i know a few that are in boarding schs in england but because the parents are working abroad, the school classed them as overseas parents as they are not resident in the country the child is.. and thats whats important.

busybee2

this is because its up to the university... and it will change year to year... depending on the course, the university, the child all different things for different years... even siblings may be treated differently... one is classed overseas and one home, because they go to different unis or different courses etc.... there is no fixed rule.. and you will not know until you apply. i do know a lot of kids that are treated as overseas students too! and there is no lying.. quite often the university will send you another assessment form which you need to fill in, so they may well be classed as overseas in the first instance, and then once they have given all the information to the university its changed to home status... as i said you will not know until you apply and its all done on individual case by case etc.

bourbon-biscuit

This is slightly inaccurate. What the uni decides to charge you and the status the government gives you (via student finance England) to access student loans are two different things. If you get 'home' fees from the university that is great if you or your parents can afford to pay those fees. However, your status wrt student finance England is determined using specific rules that preclude UK students if they have not been resident in the UK for the 3 years immediately prior to the course start date. There most definitely is a "fixed rule".

See section C1- C3 of this form: http://www.sfengland.slc.co.uk/media...orm_1516_d.pdf

holly_1948

Yes the child is resident but not ordinarily resident (which is the criterion for government money) in England when the parents reside abroad AND legal custody of the child remains with the parents.
There is case law on that directly addresses the issue of ordinary residence of children.

Having said that, the law is indeed widely flouted and Universities commonly fail to seek legal advice but make ad hoc decisions.

busybee2

i havent got kids at uni so only going on what others around me have been asked and got in regard to home status etc.

busybee2

there is a difference tho with regard to certain countries, whereby you are only working temporarily ie there are countries where you cannot get residence so thats how it works.

busybee2

the rules are clear... if you are temporarily away working and having other ties to the uk (this will only apply to certain countries, as if you work in a country overseas that you can take up citizenship of that country then you will not, such as oz/usa etc)

busybee2

but if you are working "temporarily" then thats the key!! some people may well flout the rules... but a lot of unis will send an additional assessment form out which has to be filled in, also you need to fill in more information on the tutition/student loans form etc.

bourbon-biscuit

Yes, but it's not just about insisting you are away temporarily - there's a very specific set of circumstances that meet this definition. Moving overseas and thinking it is only temporary is not one of them.

busybee2

i can tell you it is.... obviously you still need to have ties wth the uk too!

bourbon-biscuit

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Clearly if you "still need to have ties with the UK too" then it most certainly is not about just declaring your time overseas as temporary ...

busybee2

no... do you live overseas? have you been through this? if you havent then how can you comment on it? what is your experience of it? I know a lot of families that are abroad and have been through this, and until you actually apply to the university you will not know whether they will treat you as home or overseas fees. the rules are that you should not be coming back to the uk especially for education purposes hence why the 3 year rule, but if you as a child were moved overseas due to your parents work then in certain countries you can be treated as temporary etc, but added with the fact that you still maintain a home in the uk, you visit often as you still have ties with the uk, ie family etc... so there are differences as to why some universities will treat you as a home student.